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Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 8)
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gomezz
24-09-2013
He had the choice of lifting/braking to pull in behind Massa while staying on track.
Si_Crewe
24-09-2013
Originally Posted by gomezz:
“Hamilton got the run on him enabling him to pass by going wide off track at the previous corner carrying more exit speed than normal. A fair call to yield the place back IMHO.”

Originally Posted by Nessun Dorma:
“But, he had no choice, because Massa forced him off the track.”

Thing is, basically, in Hamilton's case he started off behind Massa and ended up in front of him so any going-off-track malarkey can reasonably be said to have given him an advantage so that seems like a fair call IMO.

The worrying thing in the Hulk'/Perez incident is that Hulk' was in front, didn't weave, didn't go off track and didn't do anything other than go around the corner on the racing line and yet was told to yield a place to Perez who, basically, just managed to get the nose of his car up alongside Hulk's car, on the outside of the corner, but then ran out of road as Hulk' followed the racing line.

That's simply a textbook example of a failed overtaking attempt, IMO, rather than something worthy of forcing the other driver to yield a position.
Forza Ferrari
25-09-2013
Well thats the problem it started at Monaco and once this sort of thing starts it will take worse and worse examples of it before anything is done about it if ever.
Pendragon579
26-09-2013
Originally Posted by PrincessPerfect:
“Red Bull in F1 though, are first and foremost a racing team - they aren't a drinks company, that's their remit outside of the sport. And yes, they don't have the heritage or tradition that gives Ferrari/Mclaren the kind of identity that you'd gravitate to - it's why my favourite F1 team is Ferrari. However in this sport, tradition when it comes to what really matters (results) means nothing. For all for their history, and experience RB have beaten Ferrari and Mclaren at their own game, and Mclaren in particular last year at times showed extraordinary ineptitude for a team of their calibre. Then there's Ferrari, and their embarrassing wind tunnel problem. It's up to the other teams to up their game. And all teams, no matter their backgrounds have always started off with no history.”

Exactly. Red Bull do HAVE a history [kind of]. The team actually started off as Stewart Grand Prix in 1997, which then became Jaguar in 2000 (after Ford bought Stewart Grand Prix in 1999) and then became Red Bull in 2005 after Ford sold the team to Red Bull in late 2004... So a bit like the 'Lotus' of the last 2 years, Red Bull is an older team rebranded so to speak...
Pendragon579
26-09-2013
And of course Tyrrell had F1 cars from 1970-1998 and then transmogrified into BAR (1999-2005), then into Honda (2006-2008), Brawn (2009) and finally Mercedes (2010) - hmmn wonder if any ex-Tyrrell mechanics still work for Mercedes F1
Si_Crewe
27-09-2013
As I feared, it seems Derek Warwick has piped-up in support of the reprimands for Alonso and Webber.

Webber, by way of reply, made THIS tweet.
Forza Ferrari
27-09-2013
Yip pretty sure Mercedes went out there way to bring this to the stewards attention it's clear they are highly skilled at lobbying and manipulating the regulations. That Warwick was available was just icing on the car for them.
Iqbal_M
27-09-2013
A Provisional 22 Race Calender For 2014:-

16th March - Australia
30th March - Malaysia
6th April - Bahrain
20th April - China
27th April - Korea (Provisional)
11th May - Spain
25th May - Monaco
1st June - USA, New Jersey (Provisional)
8th June - Canada
22nd June - Austria
6th July - Britain
20th July - Germany (Hockenheim)
27th July - Hungary
24th August - Belgium
7th September - Italy
21st September - Singapore
5th October - Russia
12th October - Japan
26th October - Abu Dhabi
9th November - USA, Austin
16th November - Mexico (Provisional)
30th November - Brazil

Sources:-
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12...-2014-calendar
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24297857
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110175
Nessun Dorma
27-09-2013
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“As I feared, it seems Derek Warwick has piped-up in support of the reprimands for Alonso and Webber.

Webber, by way of reply, made THIS tweet. ”

And from what I can remember, he also got into a lot of trouble for it as well.
bingoman
27-09-2013
Originally Posted by Iqbal_M:
“A Provisional 22 Race Calender For 2014:-

16th March - Australia
30th March - Malaysia
6th April - Bahrain
20th April - China
27th April - Korea (Provisional)
11th May - Spain
25th May - Monaco
1st June - USA, New Jersey (Provisional)
8th June - Canada
22nd June - Austria
6th July - Britain
20th July - Germany (Hockenheim)
27th July - Hungary
24th August - Belgium
7th September - Italy
21st September - Singapore
5th October - Russia
12th October - Japan
26th October - Abu Dhabi
9th November - USA, Austin
16th November - Mexico (Provisional)
30th November - Brazil

Sources:-
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12...-2014-calendar
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24297857
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110175”

Why has the Korean GP been moved to earlier in the Season?
Forza Ferrari
28-09-2013
Back to booing.

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2013/...ct-of-booing/?

Sensible points from Joe there. I did think it was the wrong tact from Red Bull the comments that they made and mostly I think it will just encourage people.

Also if there is going to be a cultural decision in F1 that this is not acceptable then everybody has to reject the practice together. It is futile for one group of fans to try and blame another. Pretty obvious this is broad spectrum and can only be solved by everybody uniting.
Forza Ferrari
28-09-2013
Some strange comments on pit pass.

Quote:
“"From my suite, I chose some mainstays as a reference point in order to monitor and compare the drivers' way of driving. My mainstays were the kerbstones located on the corner which leads to Republic Boulevard. Their function is to avoid passing on the kerb. I was impressed by*Vettel's neat way of driving on that stretch of the track. He was able to drive all that stretch without making any corrections, unlike all his rivals (also his teammate). His lap time was also remarkable in T3, which is the track's sector with the highest concentration of corners.

"On the same stretch, Sebastian was able to speed up 50 m before any other driver,*Webberincluded. Whilst all the other drivers speeded up on the same stretch,*Vettel*was able to speed up before them. The thing that surprised me the most was the engine's output sound. Besides speeding up 50 m before any other driver, the*Renault*engine of the German's car grinded like no other French engines on track, neither like Mark's. That sound was similar to the sound made by the engine when the traction control system got into action in the past seasons."

Furthermore, that sound was only heard when*Vettel*chalked up his excellent performances. For example, after the safety car went off, he took a great re-start and chalked up many excellent laps, gaining a 32 sec. gap over*Alonso, then he leveled off, taking precautions in the case he would have had to pit one more time. In those moments the Renault engine was more powerful than any other engines (Renault and other brands)."

There are some aspects,*Vettel's very neat way of driving,*Vettel's speedup 50 m before the other drivers, the abnormal sound of the Renault engine and Vetter's more than 2 sec. advantage over his rivals that make me think and I would like to have some answers."

All those doubts are even more serious if we consider that*Webber*wasn't able to do that, since he's a common human being… I don't want to blame anyone , I just would like to get into the deep of the matter."”

http://www.pitpass.com/50014/Minardi...e-superiority?

Surely this can't be right.
Si_Crewe
28-09-2013
Originally Posted by Forza Ferrari:
“Back to booing.

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2013/...ct-of-booing/?

Sensible points from Joe there. I did think it was the wrong tact from Red Bull the comments that they made and mostly I think it will just encourage people.”

Pretty sure the tifosi have been booing people they don't approve of for decades.
It just so happens that, in Vettel, they currently have the same person to boo pretty-much every other weekend.

Originally Posted by Forza Ferrari:
“http://www.pitpass.com/50014/Minardi...e-superiority?

Surely this can't be right.”

At the end of the day, Webber is the only one driving a car which should be set up the same way as Vettel's and his poor starts and frequent KERS failures suggest he is, perhaps, not quite as comfortable with driving the RBR as Vettel is.

One wonders what other interests Giancarlo Minardi might also have related to F1.
Forza Ferrari
28-09-2013
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“Pretty sure the tifosi have been booing people they don't approve of for decades.
It just so happens that, in Vettel, they currently have the same person to boo pretty-much every other weekend.”

See it this sort of silly it's them not us mentality that will prevent any sensible discussion of the problem and cause it to go on.
BinaryDad
29-09-2013
Originally Posted by Forza Ferrari:
“Some strange comments on pit pass.

http://www.pitpass.com/50014/Minardi...e-superiority?

Surely this can't be right.”

Hard to tell, listening to Vettel's car on certain corners sounds like the sort of stuttering we used to hear in the TC era. They already had form of TC with their engine mappings last year, so why not do the same again?

And only on Vettel's car? That's not hard to believe. F1 is just a marketing exercise for RBR and if they can further that brand by making their star driver look good? All the better.
Assa2
30-09-2013
I think if there was any truth or even reasonable suspicion of dodgy goings-on in Vettel's car the other teams would be all over it.
ACU
30-09-2013
Originally Posted by BinaryDad:
“And only on Vettel's car? That's not hard to believe. F1 is just a marketing exercise for RBR and if they can further that brand by making their star driver look good? All the better.”

Yes but if the team is caught cheating, then the damage done to their brand far out weights any kudos earned by winning.

Originally Posted by Assa2:
“I think if there was any truth or even reasonable suspicion of dodgy goings-on in Vettel's car the other teams would be all over it.”

Agree with this. Any team that is at the top, will be watched and monitored by its rivals. Same as RBR will keep an eye on its closest rivals.
Si_Crewe
30-09-2013
Thing is, the whole "lift & coast" thing is a big deal in F1 at the moment because it preserves the tyres AND allows the KERS generator to re-charge the batteries.

It's likely that Webber isn't driving the car the same way Vettel is, judging from their relative performances, their starts and the number of KERS failures they each have so I guess it's not surprising that the cars sound different going into corners if Vettel is lifting & coasting while Webber is coming off the gas and going straight onto the brakes.

Beyond that, though, I wouldn't be surprised if it's just an Italian guy having a go at the Italian team's competition or even if he's got some vested financial interest.
Forza Ferrari
30-09-2013
I did find it suspicious that Chris Horner went to such extents this week to say Vettel won't be so dominant again but perhaps just a reaction to how unpopular the margin was.

Difference between vettel and webber I think is mostly explain by Vettel having clean air. I thought a lot of the time vettel could get away easily because somebody running a tyre management pace was holding the pack up.

Something else I suspect about Webber is that his engine was still a bit sick from the last GP.

I don't think it was traction control but could Red Bull and Renault have some kind of power dampening method potentialy damaging to the engine and so only to be used occasionally when the engine is in good shape. Perhaps.
Si_Crewe
30-09-2013
Can't really recall too much about the Singapore race, TBH, but if Webber was still racing for a position while Vettel was just cruising around up ahead, it's hardly surprising that Webber's car sounded different going around corners at full-attack compared to Vettel's while it was, basically, just cruising.

I'd bet that Both Webber and Vettel's car sounded very similar on the first couple of laps and right after the s/c restart.
Forza Ferrari
30-09-2013
The strangest thing about Webber was right at the start of the race he was told to maintain a 2s gap to Alonso.

I was surprised Red Bull did not want to clear the Ferrari and instead pegged webber to running it's pace an vulnerable to attack from behind.

I would assume they would need another reason such as engine conservation to do this.
Si_Crewe
30-09-2013
Originally Posted by Forza Ferrari:
“The strangest thing about Webber was right at the start of the race he was told to maintain a 2s gap to Alonso.

I was surprised Red Bull did not want to clear the Ferrari and instead pegged webber to running it's pace an vulnerable to attack from behind.

I would assume they would need another reason such as engine conservation to do this.”

Think that was just tyre management.

The plan was to stop on around lap 8 so if Webber continued to fight with Alonso he risked burning up his tyres, losing a heap of time and ending up maybe 10 seconds behind Alonso after the first stops whereas, by maintaining a 2 second gap from lap 4, he could trundle around behind Alonso until Alonso pitted, put in a couple of stormers and then either come out ahead after his pitstop or, at least, have another crack at Alonso again.

When you're on lap 4 of an F1 race and the drivers are getting "maintain the gap" messages there's definitely summat wrong though, IMO.
Forza Ferrari
30-09-2013
But 2s is to big a gap. It takes you out the DRS and the cars were close at the time so you risk somebody else closing up and starting to attack you with DRS.

Most cars ran comfortable in the DRS zone without buring their tyres.
ACU
01-10-2013
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“As I feared, it seems Derek Warwick has piped-up in support of the reprimands for Alonso and Webber.

Webber, by way of reply, made THIS tweet. ”

To be honest, that is a bit of a silly tweet by Mark. He knows full well he wasnt penalised for hitching a lift. He was penalised for going onto the track without permission. Neither Mark nor Alonso were penalised for their part in the 'lift'.
Si_Crewe
01-10-2013
Originally Posted by ACU:
“To be honest, that is a bit of a silly tweet by Mark. He knows full well he wasnt penalised for hitching a lift. He was penalised for going onto the track without permission. Neither Mark nor Alonso were penalised for their part in the 'lift'.”

Which kinda takes me back to my original point.

If you were determined to be spiteful it could more easily be argued that Alonso deserved a reprimand for stopping in what he should have realised was a risky place whereas proving that Webber WAS actually aware he wasn't allowed onto the circuit is likely to be harder.

Personally, I think the whole thing is a classic example of something that should have been handled informally, rather than with official penalties though.
All they've done is to make what should have been a sporting gesture from one driver to another into yet another source of controversy within the sport.
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