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Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 8)
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allthingsuk
27-10-2013
Vettel in a class of his own. Did what he needed to do. Just utterly unbeatable and richly deserves this world championshio.

I think he drove better than in 2011.
Mark F
27-10-2013
Originally Posted by TheToonArmy:
“Why Massa ? Started 5th finished 4th.

Mine would be Perez and Grosjean.”

Yes - sorry.

Did well to hold position though.
Si_Crewe
27-10-2013
Originally Posted by allthingsuk:
“It's not just today. I've noticed a general trend that after his win in Hungary, Hamilton's just settled for that and his race performances have been lacklustre at times. Of course he had problems in Monza and Japan as well.”

Uhuh,

Certainly a weird situation with Merc'.

Used to be that they had the fastest car in a straight line but destroyed the tyres.
Seems like they've taken a decision to always run extra wing in order to help the tyres at the expense of top-end.

I suppose it's easy to suggest that, perhaps, they've got too far in applying more downforce but I guess if they back it off a bit then the tyres won't make it to the end and you go even slower.

Kinda embarassing the way Hamilton followed Massa around, within half a second of him, for about half an hour and then Perez catches Hamilton and just blows past him like he was standing still with no hesitation.

Wonder if Kimi pitted on the last lap cos his tyres simply wouldn't make it another lap or whether he just wanted a set of options to steal the fastest lap with?
allthingsuk
27-10-2013
Originally Posted by BillyBatty:
“Zzzzzz Same old story. How many more races and championships is he going to win.”

The scary thing is, there's nothing to suggest Red Bull will be slouches next year. They have the one man you'd want at the time of a regulation change and that's Adrian Newey. Red Bull will not lose a half-second to three quarters of a second advantage just over winter. They will probably keep at least half of that advantage.
Si_Crewe
27-10-2013
Originally Posted by allthingsuk:
“The scary thing is, there's nothing to suggest Red Bull will be slouches next year. They have the one man you'd want at the time of a regulation change and that's Adrian Newey. Red Bull will not lose a half-second to three quarters of a second advantage just over winter. They will probably keep at least half of that advantage.”

I guess the only potential problem will be if Renault produce a horrifically sucky engine cos it seems unlikely that Newey's suddenly going to forget how to design cars.

Maybe Renault will subcontract the engine out to Peugeot?

I think I read somewhere that the engines are around 40kgs heavier than they were designed to be so if that extra weight is up high I suppose it might muck up the handling on some cars.
TheToonArmy
27-10-2013
At least Alonso can use the same helmet, still on 1571
Pendragon579
27-10-2013
Bet Button isn't going to be pleased with his day as I think a podium was on for once
Si_Crewe
27-10-2013
Originally Posted by TheToonArmy:
“At least Alonso can use the same helmet, still on 1571”

Mickey_T
27-10-2013
Yawn, what a load of crap F1 has become.

The beeb did well to let half of this rubbish go behind a paywall, now dump the rest of it. :yawn:
allthingsuk
27-10-2013
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“I guess the only potential problem will be if Renault produce a horrifically sucky engine cos it seems unlikely that Newey's suddenly going to forget how to design cars.

Maybe Renault will subcontract the engine out to Peugeot?

I think I read somewhere that the engines are around 40kgs heavier than they were designed to be so if that extra weight is up high I suppose it might muck up the handling on some cars.”

Somehow I doubt that - I think the Renault engine will be stronger than people expect and Red Bull will still be there. It's up to the rest of the teams to buck up their ideas and sharpen up fast. It's clear that Red Bull, and the way they go about their business, are a much more slick and professional operation than the other front running teams.

Even scarier is that Vettel is only 26. He has, I say, another 4 years until he reaches his peak. Alonso's at his past, Raikkonen slightly past his peak, and Hamilton I'm not too sure on yet, whether he peaked too early as we haven't really seen the best of Lewis Hamilton, last year excepted, in recent years.
Pendragon579
27-10-2013
No sign of the tiresome boo boys today below the podium funnily enough
Si_Crewe
27-10-2013
Originally Posted by allthingsuk:
“Even scarier is that Vettel is only 26. He has, I say, another 4 years until he reaches his peak. Alonso's at his past, Raikkonen slightly past his peak, and Hamilton I'm not too sure on yet, whether he peaked too early as we haven't really seen the best of Lewis Hamilton, last year excepted, in recent years.”

At the risk of flogging the same old dead horse, I think the tyres have a lot to do with it.

Vettel is certainly one of the best drivers out there and with such a superb car it's very easy for him to just drive efficiently and preserve the tyres.

Hamilton was really at his best in the Bridgestone era, where he knew he could battle for the entire duration of the race, in every corner, on every lap, without worrying about damaging the tyres.

I can see the combination of Alonso AND Raikkonen winning the Constructors for Ferrari next year but I can't see either of them beating Vettel unless Ferrari produce something that's streets ahead of RBR.
allthingsuk
27-10-2013
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“At the risk of flogging the same old dead horse, I think the tyres have a lot to do with it.

Vettel is certainly one of the best drivers out there and with such a superb car it's very easy for him to just drive efficiently and preserve the tyres.

Hamilton was really at his best in the Bridgestone era, where he knew he could battle for the entire duration of the race, in every corner, on every lap, without worrying about damaging the tyres.

I can see the combination of Alonso AND Raikkonen winning the Constructors for Ferrari next year but I can't see either of them beating Vettel unless Ferrari produce something that's streets ahead of RBR.”

Very good point. Hamilton lost his biggest asset with the Bridgestones and hasn't really looked his attacking self since. The Hamilton we see today is a Lewis Hamilton that has been forced to drive within his limits and is a bit of a shadow of the 2007-10 Lewis Hamilton. The same can be said of Webber, who's never looked the same since the Pirelli era. While we've seen the likes of Alonso, Raikkonen and to a lesser extent, Button. come into their own in the Pirelli era.
JSemple3
27-10-2013
Could Mclaren challenge again when they get their honda engines back?
RPH
27-10-2013
As bad as the Schumacher years - arguably worse as Vettel isn't even the quickest driver on the grid - just lucky he has the best car and the team gives him special treatment due to his nationality.
Hoffmister
27-10-2013
Vettel is in danger of making f1 the most tedious race on telly... well i say race it isnt a race is it ..
Si_Crewe
27-10-2013
Kinda nice for the championship to be sewn up in India to give the Indian fans something special to see.
david16
27-10-2013
Only those who play the "but race to race" card are the ones trying to justify this ridiculously boring nonsense of the same man winning every single race.
Stunty
27-10-2013
F1 honours sewn up for another year, a bit early for most of our liking, but cannot deny Seb Vettel is a class driver. He undoubtedly has the best car, so does his team mate, but he still dominates the other drivers, so has to be hailed a real class champion.

Would love to see another top class driver go to Red Bull next year for some 'level playing field' competition for him, sadly Ricciardo is just going to be the Red Bull back up driver.

Classy cheeky donut celebration. Well done Mr Vettel.
Si_Crewe
27-10-2013
Hard to really dislike Vettel after listening to his interview.
Seems like it's the way he dominates the sport, rather than the guy himself, which people don't approve of.
Ray_Smith
27-10-2013
F1 would be more competitive if there were four drivers per team. This would result in less teams in the sport but six teams with four drivers per team = 24 drivers. Vettel would have to compete against three other Red Bull drivers and this would give him more competition. It's obvious Mark Webber - a good driver, for sure - isn't as fast as Vettel, however, two more drivers in the team should/would give Vettel a much harder challenge.
Stunty
27-10-2013
Don't know how the so called 'fans' can booo him just for being a phenomenal driver.

How can they be F1 supporters if they cannot appreciate pure talent when they see it.


It is probably because they think he is somehow destroying the competitiveness and excitement of the sport, but that is not Seb's fault. It is for F1 to deal with that situation, to make the changes that perhaps can bring Seb and Red Bull back to the rest of the pack.
Stunty
27-10-2013
Originally Posted by Ray_Smith:
“F1 would be more competitive if there were four drivers per team. This would result in less teams in the sport but six teams with four drivers per team = 24 drivers. Vettel would have to compete against three other Red Bull drivers and this would give him more competition. It's obvious Mark Webber - a good driver, for sure - isn't as fast as Vettel, however, two more drivers in the team should/would give Vettel a much harder challenge.”

Are there six teams out there who could fund and service four cars? Lotus are allegedly struggling to pay their staff already.
sn_22
27-10-2013
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“Hard to really dislike Vettel after listening to his interview.
Seems like it's the way he dominates the sport, rather than the guy himself, which people don't approve of.”

It's Red Bull that turn me off, really. Their 'reprimand' of Vettel after they stitched up Webber at the start of the year was a bit of a joke, quite frankly. All handled with the sort of squirm and platitudes you associate with politicians.

Beyond that, I just tend to find them extremely risk averse. The sound of Vettel's engineer coming on the radio after about 4 laps of one of the early European races this year telling Vettel he needed to "look after your tires and engine" was the best summation of everything that's gone wrong with F1 that I've heard all year. 4 laps, for Christ's sake!

The fact that I'm no fan doesn't mean I can't recognise that Vettel-RB are the best driver car combination on the grid by several lights years, and have earned the dominance they now enjoy. But I don't have to like it. And nor do I have to think that it's healthy for the future of the 'sport'.
RPH
27-10-2013
Originally Posted by sn_22:
“It's Red Bull that turn me off, really. Their 'reprimand' of Vettel after they stitched up Webber at the start of the year was a bit of a joke, quite frankly. All handled with the sort of squirm and platitudes you associate with politicians.

Beyond that, I just tend to find them extremely risk averse. The sound of Vettel's engineer coming on the radio after about 4 laps of one of the early European races this year telling Vettel he needed to "look after your tires and engine" was the best summation of everything that's gone wrong with F1 that I've heard all year. 4 laps, for Christ's sake!

The fact that I'm no fan doesn't mean I can't recognise that Vettel-RB are the best driver car combination on the grid by several lights years, and have earned the dominance they now enjoy. But I don't have to like it. And nor do I have to think that it's healthy for the future of the 'sport'.”

I think they're symbolic of the way F1 has gone unfortunately - their clinical approach may be successful, but it's not entertaining.

Drivers can't seem to drive flat out anymore without some mechanic telling them "be careful, the telemetry is showing your engine is slightly over-heating," and the advances in technology mean that skill is less important - it's a very different sport than it was even 10-15 years ago.
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