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Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 8)
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bryemycaz
06-07-2014
Originally Posted by Iqbal_M:
“It has always been the rule in F1 that, if a race has been red flagged (stopped) any cars/drivers that have retired from the race prior to the red flag cannot take part in race once the race has restarted. Therefore, Williams even if they could repair Massa's car could not take part in the restarted race.”

So Massa just made the mistake of retiring to early? before they knew of the need to repair the barrier. As I can remember the start of the 1998 Belgian GP at Spa where there was a massive pile up at the start. Lots of cars were involved some were repaired for the restart and some took the spare car.
mattlamb
06-07-2014
Originally Posted by Iqbal_M:
“It has always been the rule in F1 that, if a race has been red flagged (stopped) any cars/drivers that have retired from the race prior to the red flag cannot take part in race once the race has restarted. Therefore, Williams even if they could repair Massa's car could not take part in the restarted race.”

IN the old days teams had a spare car so if there was a red flag drivers could restart in the spare car (if the original race had gone no further than 2 laps before being red-flagged). It was effectively a new race in this situation.

If both drivers in a team had accidents that resulted in damage, then they had to fight over which driver got the spare car at the restart. THe other one had to miss the restart if the original car couldn't be repaired in time.

I remember Austria in 1987. There were three starts in that race. Some drivers had to miss the race because of mass pile-ups at the start in the first two starts.

The old Osterrichring was a very narrow track which caused problems.

Stefan Johansson damaged him McLaren by hitting a loose deer in practice for that
year's race too!

Like you say the original start in the 1998 Belgian GP was chaos too!


However, nowadays the race is not restarted from scratch.
It is just stopped and starts again under the safety car.
Raquello
06-07-2014
Wonderful drive by Bottas! Really pleased for him
mattlamb
06-07-2014
Great battle between Fernando Alonso and Seb Vettel.
They raced extremely hard with each other but fairly.
Fernando Alonso is very good at defending his position without weaving all over the track.


Pity about the whinging over the car radios from both of them. But a big thumbs up to the stewards for just letting them get on with it.

Gutierrez must be walking a disciplinay tightrope now.
He got a 10 place grid penalty for this event for being at fault in Austria. Caused another collision by spearing into Pastor Maldonado.
Isn't there a penalty points system in operation this season? I think he's got a fair number of points already.



Sounds like Max Chilton was one very lucky boy. Almost got wiped out by loose Ferrari parts.
Mark F
06-07-2014
Originally Posted by Raquello:
“Wonderful drive by Bottas! Really pleased for him ”

Been very impressive and Williams are bouncing back well after a few poor seasons.

Good to see Hamilton getting some luck but shame we didn't see the two Mercedes battle it out..might have been a classic.
Hoffmister
06-07-2014
Was it just me or was Nigel Mansel acting very odd? Hugging Bernie on the start straight fighting off a bouncer and latter he was caught in pic doing it to someone else?

He also backed Lewis despite being a impartial referee?
mattlamb
06-07-2014
Originally Posted by Hoffmister:
“Was it just me or was Nigel Mansel acting very odd? Hugging Bernie on the start straight fighting off a bouncer and latter he was caught in pic doing it to someone else?

He also backed Lewis despite being a impartial referee?”

Nigel Mansell was a steward today?

That would explain the lack of penalties - he was a very hard racer!
gomezz
06-07-2014
Originally Posted by Aye Up:
“What has happened to the Gold Cup/Trophy that is normall presented (British Maybe) winners?”

Those trophies looked like some of the cheapest tat I have seen even presented even at a lad's night out at a local indoor kart track.
Gary_LandyFan
06-07-2014
Originally Posted by gomezz:
“Those trophies looked like some of the cheapest tat I have seen even presented even at a lad's night out at a local indoor kart track.”

That's Santander for you...
dazc
06-07-2014
good race happy for lewis and bottas will be world champion in the next 5 years
heiker
07-07-2014
Originally Posted by gomezz:
“Those trophies looked like some of the cheapest tat I have seen even presented even at a lad's night out at a local indoor kart track.”

Santander have said Lewis can return the trophy and get a track-er mortgage instead
Tadpole
07-07-2014
Excellent result for Lewis. And I think that Williams' consistency has put themselves in the shop window for a top driver for 2015, maybe Jenson is talking to Williams as he has not been confirmed at McLaren yet. However Bottas does appear to be fast.

I do however think that the momentum for the championship is now with Nico, despite yesterday's DNF. He has been out-qualifying Lewis in the last few races, mainly because of Lewis either trying too hard or making mistakes in qualifying, Nico just seems to keep his head and get the job done.
gomezz
07-07-2014
Niki Lauda usually speaks sense but he was totally wrong about not bothering to repair the barrier as there was no chance of the damaged section being hit again. Er, wrong Niki, it shows exactly where a car may hit the barrier. We have all seen races where a car has gone off and another one followed it off and smacked into the first.
Si_Crewe
07-07-2014
Originally Posted by Tadpole:
“Excellent result for Lewis. And I think that Williams' consistency has put themselves in the shop window for a top driver for 2015, maybe Jenson is talking to Williams as he has not been confirmed at McLaren yet. However Bottas does appear to be fast.”

Hate to say it but I think Williams might not be out of the woods yet.

To me, it's a bit like 2011(?), where Lotus just kinda lucked into having a car which was easy on it's tyres and, in a year where the tyres were made of chocolate, it served them well.
I think that's kinda like where Williams are at right now.
After the rule-changes, they've built a car which has an advantage over most of the field... this year.
Come next year, RBR, Ferrari and (to a lesser extent) McLaren will have managed to reverse-engineer all the best bits off the Merc' and the Williams and I suspect the status quo will be roughly back where it's been for the last few years.

If I was Button (or any other driver), I think I'd want to see how well Williams do next year before rushing into signing a contract with them.
apaul
07-07-2014
The status quo of the last few years has been McClaren and Ferrari with mediocre cars.
bingoman
07-07-2014
Will Kimi be able to Race in Germany after that Crash

And also why didn't he wait for all the cars to go past before rejoining the track or was he going to fast to stop
Mark F
07-07-2014
Originally Posted by bingoman:
“
And also why didn't he wait for all the cars to go past before rejoining the track or was he going to fast to stop”

I think it was the latter - don't think he could stop!
Si_Crewe
07-07-2014
Originally Posted by Mark F:
“I think it was the latter - don't think he could stop!”

Not sure about that.

He just ran wide at, I think, Aintree and it looked like he didn't lift cos he probably didn't want to lose time/track position but then he screwed-up when he rejoined, ran over a kerb, got into a "tank-slapper" and binned it.
It looked, to me, like it was completely self-inflicted. If he'd lifted and rejoined at a lower speed he'd have had more time to judge where he rejoined and avoid the kerb.

Bear in mind that Hamilton got a penalty (IIRC) a couple of years ago for spinning, ending up on the edge of the track and then spinning around to rejoin while di Resta was nearby. And that didn't cause any collision.

Seems like, if you're going to punish drivers for stuff that doesn't cause a collision, a case where a car rejoins the circuit and does cause a collision is always going to be worthy of a penalty.

Hasn't Kimi recently said that he's not really interested in F1 again and that he's going to see out his Ferrari contract and then bugger off back to vodka and snowmobiles?
Mystic Si predicts that you'll see, perhaps, Kovalainen in a red race-suit before the end of the year.
dansus
08-07-2014
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“Not sure about that.

He just ran wide at, I think, Aintree and it looked like he didn't lift cos he probably didn't want to lose time/track position but then he screwed-up when he rejoined, ran over a kerb, got into a "tank-slapper" and binned it.”

Apparently, the rear suspension broke on the bump.

Quote:
“Mystic Si predicts that you'll see, perhaps, Kovalainen in a red race-suit before the end of the year.”

Bianchi.
Si_Crewe
08-07-2014
Originally Posted by dansus:
“Apparently, the rear suspension broke on the bump.”

Which bump, the first one or the 2nd one?

Doesn't really make any difference, though, IMO.
If the suspension broke when he ran wide at Aintree he had no business attempting to rejoin and if he had slowed down he would have have chance to evaluate the condition of the car before attempting to rejoin.
Conversely, if it broke when he hit the kerb on Wellington, it only goes to show that if he'd slowed and been more careful about rejoining the accident could have been avoided.

Let's face it, if it'd been Lurch who'd done that, people would be calling for a ban for reckless driving.
Personally, I'd rather the penalties for stuff like this were less strict but you've got to have consistency.
He rejoined in a manner which we know was unsafe cos it caused a collision which led to the race being red-flagged. QED.

The only way it isn't his fault is if he was completely off the throttle and was, basically, a passenger in a broken car which randomly slewed back onto the track but it sure as hell didn't look like that was the case.
It looked like he was trying to rejoin without losing time or position and screwed-up by hitting the kerb on Wellington.

*EDIT*

Take a look at THIS video (while it's still there, thanks FOM) from about 50 seconds onwards.

You can see he runs wide, straightens the car up and has plenty of time to evaluate the situation while off-track and he decides to make full use of the run-off area to get up to speed, attempts to rejoin at the end of the run-off area and loses it on the kerb.

The more I see it, the more it looks worthy of a penalty IMO.
dansus
08-07-2014
Pirreli testing 18" rims today. FIA want Michelin to join the party, said only if they can run 18"+ rims.

https://twitter.com/Motor_Sport/stat...835712/photo/1
Si_Crewe
09-07-2014
Originally Posted by dansus:
“Pirreli testing 18" rims today. FIA want Michelin to join the party, said only if they can run 18"+ rims.

https://twitter.com/Motor_Sport/stat...835712/photo/1”

Blimey!

I thought small wheels were one of the "sacred cows" of F1, to keep braking and traction at sensible levels?
Braking on an F1 car is already savage so imagine what they'll be able to do with 18" wheels?!

Mind you, I suppose as long as the brakes are powerful enough to lock the wheels then they're as powerful as they ever need to be and so, by using 18" rims, they'll have more scope for improving the cooling and monkeying around to make the brakes more reliable.

Not sure the drivers will be too keen on lower-profile tyres though.
The tyres absorb quite a lot of the bumps and, as a rule, higher-profile tyres are more predictable.
Low profile tyres have higher levels of ultimate grip but they let go more suddenly and make it harder to catch a slide so, with the current levels of torque, that's gonna be fun.
BinaryDad
09-07-2014
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“Not sure the drivers will be too keen on lower-profile tyres though.
The tyres absorb quite a lot of the bumps and, as a rule, higher-profile tyres are more predictable.”

Suspension will have to be tweaked; probably a bit less spring rate, a bit more travel and also beefier construction. The big issue I can see is to stop the ride being to bumpy for the aero, especially at high speed; if it's too bumpy, there could a lot of stalling all over the cars as the air flow becomes detached if they don't tweak the suspension a little or relax some of the aero rules.

Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“Low profile tyres have higher levels of ultimate grip but they let go more suddenly and make it harder to catch a slide so, with the current levels of torque, that's gonna be fun.”

For longitudinal deformation, the profile of the sidewall shouldn't make much difference. They tend not to be on the brakes or throttle when lateral loads are high anyhow, so I don't think the issue will be this. But as you say, the tires will be a bit "snappier" and I wonder how that effects drivers who trail brake and rely on the turning moment of the car to do the work rather than guiding it around with steering inputs.

I can see arguments for and against both styles with low profile tires.
BinaryDad
09-07-2014
Alarm bells are ringing!

FIA are looking into banning FRIC suspension from the German GP onwards. Oh dear.
dansus
09-07-2014
Heres some pics of the Lotus running 18's

https://twitter.com/i_am_wildthing/s...414593/photo/1
https://twitter.com/i_am_wildthing/s...106432/photo/1
https://twitter.com/ESPNF1/status/48...817728/photo/1
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