|
||||||||
Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 8) |
![]() |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
#26 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7,916
|
Quote:
So they were not forced into reducing the BBC Sport budget, as part of a number of budgets reductions at the BBC?
So they could find some money to fund the extra things that are being forced to pay for without receiving any extra funding to do so. If they didn't care about F1 they would have just seen the contract they had out to the end and then dropped it completely, this would have been cheaper than the current deal is costing them in the long run. If they had no interest in F1 they wouldn't care if it went to a rival FTA broadcaster anyway, what difference would it make. I agree the current deal is costing more than if they dropped F1, but its a hell of a lot cheaper than showing all the races live. |
|
|
|
|
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
|
|
|
#27 |
|
Inactive Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Guisborough, North Yorkshire
Posts: 2,878
|
Quote:
You can see why broadcasters were confused about the use of light signals as even the FIA regs aren't clear about it.
Specifically, Article 4: 4.2.4 Other light signals Light panels may be used to form visual representations of the yellow with red stripes flag, Safety Car board or other signals, which must be stipulated in the Supplementary Regulations of the event. If the broadcasters/commentators do not have a copy of the supplementary regulations then how are they expected to know? It also means that it is dependant on the event! |
|
|
|
|
#28 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 4,221
|
I have been pretty neutral about Vettel since he joined F1, he is a good driver in a good car. But that bit at the end of the race when the commentators said he joined Fangio and Schumacher as a winner of 3 consecutive championships... and how he joined the ranks of the all time great drivers.... It just doesnt sit right with me.
I cannot put my finger on it, he is talented but to me he isnt in the same league as Schumi or Fangio, nor the other great champs like Senna, Prost or even his main competitor Alonso. Has he just been really lucky in being at the right time and place with Red Bull or am I missing something in his driving that sets him apart from others currently racing with him? I feel a bit mean feeling this way when his stats are so impressive. I never liked Schumi but did not have a problem saying "yes this man is one of the great drivers".
|
|
|
|
|
|
#29 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Herts
Posts: 17,002
|
Quote:
They were forced to cut their sports budget. However as you say, they should have let their contract run out and then let the other FTA channels bid for the rights. However they did not want to lose F1 to another FTA competitor (its to do with ratings), hence why the BBC went running to sky. If the BBC was bothered about the British F1 fans, they would have let it go to another FTA channel.
I agree the current deal is costing more than if they dropped F1, but its a hell of a lot cheaper than showing all the races live. |
|
|
|
|
|
#30 |
|
Inactive Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Guisborough, North Yorkshire
Posts: 2,878
|
Quote:
What other FTA channel would be able to afford F1? ITV already dropped it to provide more football coverage which they saw as better value and less niche. Bernie brokered the deal with Sky as he was still keen on F1 reaching as wider audience as possible in the UK and no one else had deep pockets.
This deal was struck when the BBC approached Sky. Bernie wasn't involved until they came to an agreement. ITV had said they would be interested in bidding for F1 coverage, but could only do so for the 2013 (it could have been 2014) season at the earliest. And the bit in bold is a load of sh!t. Putting it behind a pay-wall is only going to reduce the audience and make it less likely to get new viewers. It was already on the channel that gave it the largest reach possible in the UK. Every TV regardless of which TV system it uses can receive the BBC channels. At the moment Sky Sports F1 struggles to get 1 million viewers, and this is with the channel being included in the HD pack. |
|
|
|
|
#31 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7,916
|
Quote:
I have been pretty neutral about Vettel since he joined F1, he is a good driver in a good car. But that bit at the end of the race when the commentators said he joined Fangio and Schumacher as a winner of 3 consecutive championships... and how he joined the ranks of the all time great drivers.... It just doesnt sit right with me.
I cannot put my finger on it, he is talented but to me he isnt in the same league as Schumi or Fangio, nor the other great champs like Senna, Prost or even his main competitor Alonso. Has he just been really lucky in being at the right time and place with Red Bull or am I missing something in his driving that sets him apart from others currently racing with him? I feel a bit mean feeling this way when his stats are so impressive. I never liked Schumi but did not have a problem saying "yes this man is one of the great drivers". ![]() Quote:
What other FTA channel would be able to afford F1? ITV already dropped it to provide more football coverage which they saw as better value and less niche. Bernie brokered the deal with Sky as he was still keen on F1 reaching as wider audience as possible in the UK and no one else had deep pockets.
As for who could afford it, there is no set price you pay for the rights. F1 just went to the highest bidder. Whether that bid was £10million or £3million. |
|
|
|
|
|
#32 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,725
|
So, another team has confirmed their line-up, Williams are replacing Senna with Bottas who will partner Maldonado. Not the most surprising move, Williams had been talking him up for months and his pace if free practice sessions was up there with Maldonado.
So this leaves Caterham, Force India and Marussia left to announce line-ups (Lotus need to officially confirm Grosjean as well) and HRT to announce their future full stop. |
|
|
|
|
|
#33 |
|
Inactive Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dumfries
Posts: 38,495
|
Quote:
I have been pretty neutral about Vettel since he joined F1, he is a good driver in a good car. But that bit at the end of the race when the commentators said he joined Fangio and Schumacher as a winner of 3 consecutive championships... and how he joined the ranks of the all time great drivers.... It just doesnt sit right with me.
I cannot put my finger on it, he is talented but to me he isnt in the same league as Schumi or Fangio, nor the other great champs like Senna, Prost or even his main competitor Alonso. Has he just been really lucky in being at the right time and place with Red Bull or am I missing something in his driving that sets him apart from others currently racing with him? I feel a bit mean feeling this way when his stats are so impressive. I never liked Schumi but did not have a problem saying "yes this man is one of the great drivers". ![]() Trouble is that, fundamentally, the current engines and drivetrains in use were designed to run at higher power but have been downrated so they're running less power than they were designed for and, thus, are more reliable. This means that teams can focus on developing car aero' and that no driver is likely to break a car in a hard-fought race. Back in the day you might have had Senna, Mansell and Prost battling against each other, and they were all good drivers in their own ways, but the teams were continually forced to push their cars right to the edge where they weren't reliable and that'd mean drivers would push their cars until they broke more often. These days you have, arguably, some of the strongest drivers ever to race against each other but what we get is a sort of "tortoise vs hare" situation where (barring collisions), basically, the drivers just finish the race in a position relative to how good their car is. Basically, if you stuck Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso, Raikkonen, Button, Rosberg, Webber and co all in the same car I'd bet that youd start to see many more car failures, firstly because the drivers would be forced to drive more aggresively and, secondly, because the teams sould be forced to take more risks to give their driver an advantage. It should be noted, of course, that Alonso's performance this year goes some way to contradict all the above but that's why so many people think he really deserved the title more. I'm not really going to say "Vettel only won cos he has the best car". The point I'm trying to make is more subtle than that. It's just that because the cars are so reliable each team is sort of "guaranteed" a finishing position relative to somewhere near the level of their cars performance unless the driver screws it up. And that, in turn, means the drivers can be more relaxed about how they approach each race and that the teams can be more focused on providing beneficial aero' upgrades for the car. |
|
|
|
|
|
#34 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 4,221
|
Quote:
I blame the cars.
Trouble is that, fundamentally, the current engines and drivetrains in use were designed to run at higher power but have been downrated so they're running less power than they were designed for and, thus, are more reliable. This means that teams can focus on developing car aero' and that no driver is likely to break a car in a hard-fought race. Back in the day you might have had Senna, Mansell and Prost battling against each other, and they were all good drivers in their own ways, but the teams were continually forced to push their cars right to the edge where they weren't reliable and that'd mean drivers would push their cars until they broke more often. These days you have, arguably, some of the strongest drivers ever to race against each other but what we get is a sort of "tortoise vs hare" situation where (barring collisions), basically, the drivers just finish the race in a position relative to how good their car is. Basically, if you stuck Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso, Raikkonen, Button, Rosberg, Webber and co all in the same car I'd bet that youd start to see many more car failures, firstly because the drivers would be forced to drive more aggresively and, secondly, because the teams sould be forced to take more risks to give their driver an advantage. It should be noted, of course, that Alonso's performance this year goes some way to contradict all the above but that's why so many people think he really deserved the title more. I'm not really going to say "Vettel only won cos he has the best car". The point I'm trying to make is more subtle than that. It's just that because the cars are so reliable each team is sort of "guaranteed" a finishing position relative to somewhere near the level of their cars performance unless the driver screws it up. And that, in turn, means the drivers can be more relaxed about how they approach each race and that the teams can be more focused on providing beneficial aero' upgrades for the car. |
|
|
|
|
|
#35 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: HEED ARMY!!!!!
Posts: 32,063
|
Ferrari saying they have footage that shows Vettel making illegal overtaking move in Sundays's GP, according to BBC Five Live.
|
|
|
|
|
#36 |
|
Inactive Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dumfries
Posts: 38,495
|
Quote:
Ferrari saying they have footage that shows Vettel making illegal overtaking move in Sundays's GP, according to BBC Five Live.
Somebody should establish similar rules in F1 as football has, whereby the "ref's" decision is final or, at the very least, that any future enquiry needs to be lodged prior to announcing the result. At the end of the race, on Sunday, I was going to say "Now Ferrari knows Vettel has won by 3 points they know exactly how much they need to try and meddle with Vettel's finishing result" but I thought it'd be in needlessly poor taste. |
|
|
|
|
|
#37 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,997
|
this really is a farce
not the fault of ferrari I suppose, its just the nature of this 'sport', it is farcical |
|
|
|
|
|
#38 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,370
|
Surely the result won't be overturned? How awkward would that be after all this history stuff?
Red Bull have been talking about the result for days now, I assume they would have been more cautious with their celebrations if there was any chance the result could be changed? |
|
|
|
|
|
#39 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Buckingham
Posts: 28,534
|
Like their car this season Ferrari seem to have been too slow. The Ferrari of old would have banged in their protest within the 30 minutes the rules give.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#40 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 182
|
This is pretty clear cut if you watch the video - he goes round the bend and there's a yellow flashing light, he then overtakes on the straight before reaching the end of the zone signaled by a green flashing light.
Does the car have to be fully clear to constitute an overtake because you can't see that from the in car angle? Otherwise 20 second pen, Alonso is Champ. |
|
|
|
|
|
#41 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Buckingham
Posts: 28,534
|
What is the rule on that? When you see a green or when you pass a green?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#42 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 182
|
I'd assume when you pass the green otherwise a driver could just make stuff up and it would be impossible to verify
|
|
|
|
|
|
#43 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,725
|
Taken from the article.
"However, on the footage from Vettel's car it is not possible to see clearly the marshals' post that is situated on the inside of the track at the exit of the pit lane - after the yellow light at Turn Three. It is possible that the marshal there was waving a green flag. If he was, the pass on Vergne would be legal and the result would stand. A green flag is waved at that post as Vettel passes the Marussia of Charles Pic on lap three, but it is not clear whether it was still being waved on lap four." |
|
|
|
|
|
#44 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 182
|
Unless it's clear cut either way than it's a Vettel win
|
|
|
|
|
|
#45 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,370
|
Quote:
Unless it's clear cut either way than it's a Vettel win
![]() Has a world champion ever been stripped of his title before?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#46 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2,764
|
Very interesting video showing 2 passes that's OK and one that is alleged not ok.
Its 12minutes long but worth watching all of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFER0...ature=youtu.be The alleged illegal pass is 9:34 |
|
|
|
|
|
#47 |
|
Inactive Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dumfries
Posts: 38,495
|
Quote:
This is pretty clear cut if you watch the video - he goes round the bend and there's a yellow flashing light, he then overtakes on the straight before reaching the end of the zone signaled by a green flashing light.
Seems there was an old-fashioned "man with a flag" marshal post between the yellow light and the green light and the man with the flag WAS waving his green flag on lap 3 but it's unknown whether he was doing so a lap later, at the time Vettel overtook Vergne. Seriously, I'd suggest that technical issues (such as dodgy fuel, engines or aero' etc) can be investigated after an event but all sporting issues (overtaking, cutting the track, causing collisions, ignoring flags etc) MUST be resolved before the result is posted at the end of the event. If that means that they need to have a "stewards enquiry" like in a horse-race, which delays the result by an hour, so be it. |
|
|
|
|
|
#48 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 24,518
|
BBC website has clearer footage - no sign of a green flag waved by marshalls before the overtake.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#49 |
|
Inactive Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Guisborough, North Yorkshire
Posts: 2,878
|
The footage is not clear enough to say for certain.
|
|
|
|
|
#50 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,288
|
The footage in question was not shown on the main global 'world feed' during the race as it was showing interminable repeats of the start at the time.
Wow. Who'da thunk it? |
|
|
|
![]() |
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:35.





