Oh, please. Your constant victim act is getting tiring. Pretty much all of the German press is slating Hamilton for this. So what? I find it amusing. Who gives a damn about what the press say?


The team were asking Hamilton to sacrifice any chance he might have had at catching and passing Alonso, so that his team mate could pass. The problem was, Rosberg wasn't fast enough to catch Hamilton, let alone Alonso so from Hamilton's view, this was an order that only change the Mercedes driver order.

Given that from his point of view, he was going to lose out and the team as a whole were going to more than likely get the same results, why should he obey? Why should he be negatively impacted while his team mate benefits, especially since it was this sort of result-fixing situation that the team had publicly stated they would not engage in.

If Mercedes has been serious about any order, then Paddy or Totto would have been on the radio to tell him that this was not optional. As it was, this was advice from his own race engineer that he is at liberty to ignore should he feel that he knows better.

If Merc are going to give him Hamilton a grilling, perhaps he should counter with being put on a differing, inferior strategy to his team mate given that he had two sets of fresh option tires, which would have given him a much better chance at fighting for pole? I thought this differing strategy for both drivers to give one an advantage over the other was something they were going to void?

He argues that he did not disobey an order - and he certainly didn't disobey any order from the team principals as they never came on the radio to him and were never mentioned (AFAIK) in his engineer's calls.

By the time Rosberg was in a position to try and overtake for the first time, at the end when Hamilton pushed him wide (but not illegally or off the track), the 'team orders" had long since ceased being given. Hamilton knew that if the team were deadly serious about the earlier "team orders" Toto or Paddy would have got involved, but they never did.

And it's not a problem for the future because everyone including Rosberg and Hamilton now knows that if a similar situation happens in reverse, Rosberg won't now have to give up his position.

Whos playing the victim? Where did that come from??? I am just highlighting the hypocrisy of some posters in this thread. As for the media, you mean in the same way the British press slated Vettel?


If that is what the team wanted, then that is what the team should get. I cant even believe, that you are saying, "why should he obey?" I refer you to the plethora of arguments made by many a poster in this thread, when Vettel didnt obey....


Now you are getting silly. When his race engineer tells him to pit, does that mean his engineer is not serious? Does Paddy or Toto have to come on the radio to tell him that the team are serious, and he does need to pit? Whats the scale of seriousness here? Race Engineer - not serious at all, he is only really joking. Paddy - yep hes fairly serious, but I can ignore him the first time, but not subsequent times . Toto - he is very serious, better listen to him.

How do you know he is at liberty to ignore the race engineers advice? You have just made that up, no proof to back up statement. You also need to look at the wording used by his engineer. At no point did you use words like "its up to you to move over or not" or "if you want to you can move over" etc.


Perhaps when Lewis counters, Merc should counter with, you can go and drive someone elses car. Our car, out rules. Lewis hasnt got a leg to stand on.

Lewis sits down with whoever he needs to and they discuss strategy, before the race. So no doubt they would have a strategy in place. If he isnt happy with the strategy, thats when he says so. They should all leave the meeting happy with the strategy. Which is what more than likely happens. Of course, as is the nature of F1, the strategy is liable to change. As it did with Rosberg.

Two drivers from the same team, on different strategy, you let the one behind you through, if for instances he is making an extra stop - you dont hold him up. This has happened this season, its happened in seasons past. However when it comes to Lewis, you seem to think tough, that doesnt apply. Which is fair enough, if thats what you think. However dont start saying I am playing the victim, when I point out the obvious flaw in your logic.

I really cant believe people are saying, that a driver is well within his rights to disobey team orders. Its laughable that you even try to put an argument together to justify it. Especially as you take into account the Vettel situation. Out of interest, what did you say when Vettel disobeyed team orders? I could go through the thread and see what you posted, but I cant be asked.

I am quite happy to discuss other matters with you (and others), however on this matter I am stopping. I have made my point and position clear.

As much as I hate to say it, I think Hamilton will win the WDC. Hope not though

Hamilton
Rosberg
Ricciardo
Vettel
Alonso

A more interesting point, that no one seems to have mentioned (or I have missed it), is the return of Flavio Briatore into the F1 fold as a *****ultant, sorry I mean consultant.

Cant believe this cheating, slimey **** has been brought back into the F1 fold. A dark cloud follows him wherever he goes. Which is probably why it rained on race day.

He's like F1's version of Herpes. Once you've got him, it's for life.

Seriously, he's like any other con' artist. He's found an industry which he knows inside-out and he continually finds ways to exploit it, one way or another.
He'll never be completely out of the picture, either as a driver's manager, a supplier, a liaison or a consultant because F1 is what he knows how to exploit.
I wonder if, quietly, Bernie would like it to be Briatore who takes over from him?

In other news, it's a little ironic that people were dismissing comments suggesting that it was a little "convenient" that no safety-car was deployed after Sutil binned it at the German GP cos' now Rosberg's whining about the way the SC was used in Hungary.

I think you've pretty much nailed the top five there, without a shadow of a doubt.

I wouldn't even risk a bet on what order those five finish in though.

Yes, I tend to agree that Lewis Hamilton will win the champiionship.

I think that ultimately he is quicker than Nico Rosberg. He needs to keep his mind focused though - Nico is far more stable emotionally in my opinion.

I do feel that Red Bull will improve after the summer break. Their track record suggests they will - although ultimately they may be foiled by their relatively poor Renault engine (especially as there are several tracks (eg: Monza, Austin) where engine performance is paramount still to go.

I sympathised with Seb Vettel in his incident with Mark Webber last season (unlike most British people). And I am on Lewis' side on this matter too (although I am not a big fan of his). Ultimately team-mates should be allowed to race against each other in my opinion, especially when their team are so far ahead in the constructor's championship (as was the case with red Bull last year, and Mercedes this).

If anybody is interested in reviewing it, the palava over Sepang 2013 starts on page 19 of this thread, HERE.

Just been having a read through and, oddly enough, it seems like the majority of the discussion was actually about Rosberg being told to stay behind Hamilton rather than about Vettel.

Pleased (in a smug sort of way) to say that my only real criticism was of the slippery way Horner (and, at first, Vettel) tried to square the whole "multi 21" thing with all the rhetoric about how "RBR always let our drivers race" etc.

Ironically enough, it seems like one of the people who was most conflicted about it all was ACU (on page 28) who seemed to hold the view that it was okay for Vettel to ignore a team order because it "proves" that RBR allow their drivers to race (while failing to consider why a team who allows their drivers to race would actually have a secret codeword for, erm "don't race") while, at the same time, was critical of Hamilton because, erm, Rosberg obeyed a team order which was, somehow, Hamilton's fault.

Or something.

The difference is, I'm not whining about it on this thread.



I can't believe that you think that people should obey without question or sacrifice their own interests when from their view, it's for the benefit of another individual.


That's up for the driver to decide. In much the same way his engineer told him to pit and Hamilton said he was fine for a couple of more laps at that pace. Now do you see it? Of course not, because you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about.



Again. See pit-call in last race. There's all the proof you need.



Only they won't. You know it. I know it. They have a contract, and I'm willing to bet that the terms of that contract are not all one sided.


As it should have done with Hamilton as well. But that's because they had one strategist concentrating on the guy who started and lost 1st place.



If you're both fighting for points places then none of that bs applies. If Hamilton was out of contention for the WDC and if he hadn't gained so many places, then yes, I'm pretty sure Hamilton would move over in much the same way he offered to move over for Rosberg last year.

But the situation we had in Hungary is different.


You made a band wagon argument. If lots of people think X then surely X must be true. I called you a victim. There wasn't any argument, logical or otherwise for me to counter.


I'm afraid that personal incredulity isn't really a valid argument.


I already stated that I felt the orders were wrong. Go take a look.

This is taken from page 28, where you say I am most conflicted...


My first sentence makes it pretty clear, I thought he was wrong. The second paragraph, states that the team orders prove that Vettel did not have No.1 status. Nowhere do I say, it was ok for Vettel to ignore team orders.

RBR allowed the drivers to race, up until the last round of pitstops, if I remember correctly. After that they were meant to hold station.

LOL, everyone thinking Lewis will win reminds me of that old Fast Show sketch where they try to come up with the all-time England 11 and all they can agree on is "Gordon Banks in goal"
I don't know why it reminds me of that

I am not a betting man so dont have to worry about losing money. However my list is in the order I think, they will finish the championship.

Bucking the apparent trend, I don't think Lewis will win and I won't be surprised to see Bottas in the top 5.

Rosberg
Hamilton
Ricciardo
Bottas
Vettel

I suppose it could be that Newey does some doodles while he's "on holiday" but, judging by how Vettel tends to do in the 2nd half of the season, I wouldn't be surprised if he puts DR in the shade from now on, thus allowing people to conveniently forget how he embarrassed the 4x World Champion for a while.

Hamilton certainly can win the WDC but I really dunno if this will be his year or not.
It ain't easy being a Hamilton fan.

Maybe I can help by telling you of my approach to F1. I hang my hat on no particular team or driver, simples. With his approach, I neither get over-excited when my favourite wins, nor do I sink to depths of despondency after a failure. This allows me to take pleasure from every race.
Try it, it really works and if you suffer withdrawal symptoms, you can always rely on me to act as deprogramming counselor.

Kevin Eason saying Bernie will get the case in Germany settled for £20m payment.

Which means no chance of FOM 100 year deal with FIA being nulled.

Well....he started in sixth at Silverstone and won, started ninth in Austria and came in second and look at him last weekend. He has the potential to finish on the podium of every race, just as long as his car stays on the track and as long as he finishes ahead of Rosberg more often, that will be enough to win the WDC.

To be fair, I don; think that will be too much of a problem. Lewis is, by far, the better overtaker and if Nico blocks him too often, he will be in hot water with the stewards.

I concur, although I would put Alonso above Vettel this year.

Although I am increasingly becoming a Bottas fan (I have always had a soft spot for Williams), I think that Ferrari and Red Bull will improve over the break and Williams won't be able to catch up this year. I think that Bottas will finish in the top eight though.

On that note, I am ever so happy to see that Claire Williams is taking the team in the right direction, since she has moved out of Frank's shadow, so to speak. The Mercedes partnership was obviously the right move for them, Renault was just getting stale.

Ten second moan...

Why, oh why do the BBC on their news website splash across the headlines the result of the GP.

Some of us out here don't have Sky and would like to watch the highlights on the BBC without knowing the result.

It's not the first time they have done it, would it not be possible to have the result still available on the website but through the Sport/ Formula One link?

As it is, with the BBC news being my home page, when I open my browser the last thing I want to see is the result... The days of the BBC news being my home page are over... Simples

That's a very good point and I agree - they should still have the ticker and headline but they should only say "F1 race winner is... (click for details)" or similar.

And on radio, they should always start the announcement with "Today's F1 race at Anytrack in AnyCountry was won by [Lewis/Nico/Other]" and not what they usually do i.e. "Lewis Hamilton won today's F1 race at..." which is REALLY annoying if I've not watched the race live but am about to watch a recording of it. That would give enough time to mute the radio to avoid hearing the winner's name.

The media are sometimes pathetic with such things, when the solution is so simple. Use your brains, BBC, you are often issuing spoilers for your own imminent TV coverage!

I do sympathise but surely, if it happens that often, you've learned to avoid looking at the news in the 3 or 4 hours between a live race and the BBC highlights?

Bear in mind, the BBC is supplying news to the masses so they splatter a diverse spectrum of stuff across the homepage in the knowledge that most people will just open the home-page and read whatever stories catch their eye (thus generating traffic for the site and justifying it's existence) so a bunch of sports articles saying "There was a footie match/motor race/tennis match today. Click here to read more" probably wouldn't catch people's attention and generate the all-important traffic.