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Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 8)
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dansus
24-08-2014
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“Have both Hamilton and Rosberg signed contracts for next season yet?”

Lewis has one year left and Rosberg just signed a two year extension.
BinaryDad
24-08-2014
Will Buxton reporting the following on twitter;

Quote:
“Apparently, according to HAM, it seems some emotion festered in Rosberg after Hungary and he was out to prove a point early in the race.”

Quote:
“I don't have the exact quotes, but Lewis just told the print press that Nico admitted in debrief he deliberately hit him to prove a point.”

Oh dear, oh dear. I wonder how Merc will handle this. If this is true, then it's not just about drivers racing badly; it's about Rosberg being an utter tool.
Fudd
24-08-2014
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“I guess they're just unambiguously pissed-off that one of their drivers took the other one out of the race.

Big surprise, eh?”

No but it's not the first time and usually the team pulls rank until they've spoken fully to the drivers - not rant and rave about them at the first opportunity.

Originally Posted by dansus:
“Lewis has one year left and Rosberg just signed a two year extension.”

Thanks. Next year will be interesting. If one of the rival cars (... ok, Williams) shows a massive improvement over the second half of the season and starts to really compete with Merecedes I wonder whether there will come a point where he buys himself out of the contract (or Mercedes let him go) as the working relationship is beyond repairable?
Fudd
24-08-2014
Originally Posted by BinaryDad:
“Will Buxton reporting the following on twitter;





Oh dear, oh dear. I wonder how Merc will handle this. If this is true, then it's not just about drivers racing badly; it's about Rosberg being an utter tool.”

I don't believe it. Why would Rosberg do what he did considering nine times out of ten the front wing tends to end up in a worse state than the back tyre? Post race, Martin Brundle stated a conversation he had with Pirelli who told him that the wing has to clip a thin strip of the tyre to cause a puncture. If it hits the outer edge or the rim, no puncture is caused and the front wing tends to be damaged.
David Tee
24-08-2014
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“I think Hamilton already tried something like that in quali' at Silverstone and it just made him look like a bit of a nobber.

All Hamilton needs is a reliable car underneath him and then it's up to him not to screw up and get himself into situations where he can out-race Rosberg, which he should be able to do.

I'd much rather Hamilton came 2nd with honour rather than winning by being shifty and I kinda think Lewis would feel the same way too.”

Agree with that.
dansus
24-08-2014
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/207980/...iberately.html

Lewis stretching the truth a bit, according to reports, he didnt hit him on purpose but left his car there to see what Lewis would do.
David Tee
24-08-2014
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“I don't believe it. Why would Rosberg do what he did considering nine times out of ten the front wing tends to end up in a worse state than the back tyre? Post race, Martin Brundle stated a conversation he had with Pirelli who told him that the wing has to clip a thin strip of the tyre to cause a puncture. If it hits the outer edge or the rim, no puncture is caused and the front wing tends to be damaged.”

I may have this wrong but my recollection is that we've seen quite a few rear tyre punctures caused by front wing collisions already this season.

I'd be amazed if Rosberg did it deliberately. Your point is correct, it could end up hurting him more than Hamilton. That said, I'd be beyond amazed if he then admitted to doing it deliberately in the post race debrief. If he has, it certainly puts the events at Monaco in a new light.
Si_Crewe
24-08-2014
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“I don't believe it. Why would Rosberg do what he did considering nine times out of ten the front wing tends to end up in a worse state than the back tyre? Post race, Martin Brundle stated a conversation he had with Pirelli who told him that the wing has to clip a thin strip of the tyre to cause a puncture. If it hits the outer edge or the rim, no puncture is caused and the front wing tends to be damaged.”

I suspect the truth is more along the lines of "Rosberg admitted that he wouldn't yield in any wheel-to-wheel racing with Lewis".

I doubt that Rosberg will have admitted to any Senna (or Schuey) style shenanigans though.
I'd imagine that's the one thing that Lauda just flat-out wouldn't tolerate.
Fudd
24-08-2014
Deleted.
David Tee
24-08-2014
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“To put it simply, Mercedes have lout control of their drivers.”

Very Freudian.
BinaryDad
24-08-2014
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“I don't believe it. Why would Rosberg do what he did considering nine times out of ten the front wing tends to end up in a worse state than the back tyre? Post race, Martin Brundle stated a conversation he had with Pirelli who told him that the wing has to clip a thin strip of the tyre to cause a puncture. If it hits the outer edge or the rim, no puncture is caused and the front wing tends to be damaged.”

Believe it or don't believe it. Do you think that any driver is going to outright lie about something like that?

More text:
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/207980/...iberately.html

It'll be interesting to hear the team's side. Not only that, but Nico is angry at the team for Hungary, If there's any truth to this, there needs to be an investigation of some sort.
d'@ve
24-08-2014
Originally Posted by dansus:
“http://www.crash.net/f1/news/207980/...iberately.html

Lewis stretching the truth a bit, according to reports, he didnt hit him on purpose but left his car there to see what Lewis would do.”

Hamilton followed his normal line without deviation. Rosberg turned back in.
Fudd
24-08-2014
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“I suspect the truth is more along the lines of "Rosberg admitted that he wouldn't yield in any wheel-to-wheel racing with Lewis".

I doubt that Rosberg will have admitted to any Senna (or Schuey) style shenanigans though.
I'd imagine that's the one thing that Lauda just flat-out wouldn't tolerate.”

Yes, that's more like it. And going by the second link it looks like Rosberg is apportioning blame on Hamilton rather than saying he caused the collision deliberately.
Fudd
24-08-2014
Originally Posted by David Tee:
“Very Freudian. ”

I should have left it, really.
dansus
24-08-2014
Originally Posted by d'@ve:
“Hamilton followed his normal line without deviation. Rosberg turned back in.”

Maybe, i was looking at that, but remember he has to get round the corner as well and he would have had a fair amount of understeer at that point.
gomezz
24-08-2014
Originally Posted by d'@ve:
“Hamilton followed his normal line”

Not really. He took the slower defensive line in, knew there was another car somewhere on his rear left quarter and did not allow for that. Racing incident with errors by both drivers.
d'@ve
24-08-2014
Originally Posted by gomezz:
“Not really. He took the slower defensive line in, knew there was another car somewhere on his rear left quarter and did not allow for that. Racing incident with errors by both drivers.”

Gerraway with it! Rosberg started to avoid him then turned back in. That (and only that) caused the collision. Rosberg's sudden move. Defensive or not, Hamilton followed an obvious and predictable line: Rosberg did neither.
Fudd
24-08-2014
Originally Posted by BinaryDad:
“Believe it or don't believe it. Do you think that any driver is going to outright lie about something like that?

More text:
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/207980/...iberately.html

It'll be interesting to hear the team's side. Not only that, but Nico is angry at the team for Hungary, If there's any truth to this, there needs to be an investigation of some sort.”

He's not making much sense - Rosberg either caused the decision deliberately or is blaming Hamilton for it. He can't be doing both.
BinaryDad
24-08-2014
Originally Posted by dansus:
“Maybe, i was looking at that, but remember he has to get round the corner as well and he would have had a fair amount of understeer at that point.”

With the under steer, maybe. But turning even more isn't going to solve that; the front tires have already reached the limit of lateral grip at this point. You're only going to stop under-steering if you reduce the slip angle by straightening up or by laying of the throttle/brakes.
indiana44
24-08-2014
Assuming there is no truth in any conspiracy theories about Mercedes favouring Nico or Lewis ( OK, I'm going to assume it ! ), then I think the annoyance with Nico ( surprisingly and perhaps too public, but fun for us ! ) was very understandable.

Mercedes, in their dominant team position, have generally allowed their drivers to race, and that is what F1 fans want to see and is good for the sport.

But within that, they have clearly trusted their drivers to not take clear risks with both cars. I would assume that it has been discussed, although it is pretty obviously sensible to many folk with much less intelligence than Nico. Eddie Jordan just looked foolish passing the blame to Mercedes, when today Nico was the one very much at fault. And he had let down Mercedes. F1 fans understand the difference between being allowed to race ( good ) and putting both cars in real danger ( bad ).

In my view, there is a big difference between Lewis not letting Nico through in Hungary when they were both still on for good constructor points and Lewis would understandably see it as compromising himself in the title race, and today's putting both cars at such risk.

Personally, I think it was a wrong call to have asked Lewis to move over, but understandable in just too overconsidering the constructors points.

If Nico was so miffed, he is totally failing to see it from Lewis's point of view ( that it was supposedly a fair fight between the title rivals ).

Nico botched up big time today, and there is little excuse. Having been allowed to compete, he took.it to a stupid degree.
dansus
24-08-2014
Originally Posted by BinaryDad:
“With the under steer, maybe. But turning even more isn't going to solve that; the front tires have already reached the limit of lateral grip at this point. You're only going to stop under-steering if you reduce the slip angle by straightening up or by laying of the throttle/brakes.”

True, but d@ve is saying he turned in deliberately to hit Hamilton, while it was more likely he was turning in to counter understeer.
Si_Crewe
24-08-2014
Originally Posted by dansus:
“Maybe, i was looking at that, but remember he has to get round the corner as well and he would have had a fair amount of understeer at that point.”

See, this goes back to what I was saying about Hamilton and Kobayashi a couple of years ago.

There's a BBC piece (on Youtube somewhere) where EJ and Coulthard are discussing it and Coulthard makes the point that Hamilton wouldn't have expected Koba' to be on his outside on the entrance to Les Combes because there's just nowhere for a car to go (other than off-track) when the lead car enters the left-hand part of the corner.

A few cars made it work today by getting the job done before they actually went into LC but, as Vettel demonstrated, if you enter LC alongside another car it's all likely to go horribly wrong.

I'd guess that, at worst, Rosberg (as the articles are suggesting) decided that he wasn't going to yield to Hamilton even though he'd put himself in a bad position and that's what led to the collision so I suppose that's why the team are so pissed-off.

If Rosberg had been putting himself in a position where he could compromise Hamilton's line and then gain an advantage it'd be a more ambiguous situation but, as it was, he was putting himself in a position where he was either going to go off-track or there was going to be a collision, which is kinda dumb driving at what's supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport.
BinaryDad
24-08-2014
Originally Posted by dansus:
“True, but d@ve is saying he turned in deliberately to hit Hamilton, while it was more likely he was turning in to counter understeer.”

But turning in isn't how you counter understeer. The tires are at the limits of lateral force, and increasing the steering angle doesn't produce more grip; it stays about the same or even drops a little. Look at a typical pacejka curve for a tires lateral grip versus slip angle.

If he has to straighten off and go off track, so be it. That's his problem; the guy in front isn't being paid to worry about the problems the of the guy behind.
dansus
24-08-2014
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“
If Rosberg had been putting himself in a position where he could compromise Hamilton's line and then gain an advantage it'd be a more ambiguous situation but, as it was, he was putting himself in a position where he was either going to go off-track or there was going to be a collision, which is kinda dumb driving at what's supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport.”

I remember a certain Mr Senna De Silva doing the same thing. More than once.. Thats racing.
BinaryDad
24-08-2014
Latest info

Quote:
“@WillBuxton
Confirmation from Merc that the Lewis quotes are accurate, and are a reflection of what is believed to have been said in the meeting.”

Quote:
“Niki Lauda

Lauda: "We are disgusted, we waited for Nico's and Lewis' opinion, we heard everything. My opinion is still the same, it was Nico's fault"”

So Merc have pretty much thrown Nico to the wolves by backing up Hamilton's quote so readily.
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