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Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 8)


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Old 24-08-2014, 19:32
indiana44
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Seems to me that Nico's actions caused the coming together, however you want to word it. And these were deliberate actions.

And that's what Mercedes management believe and are therefore very unhappy with him.
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Old 24-08-2014, 19:32
Fudd
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Under instruction from his team.

Rosberg deliberately cheats on the track. There is a difference. He may win the battle but he is unlikely to win the war.
Hamilton could have been honest with the stewards, he elected not to be.
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Old 24-08-2014, 19:33
rodgepodge
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As this minimum type of contact has happened several times over the past few seasons causing punctures, why not make the sidewall of the tyres a little tougher.
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Old 24-08-2014, 19:38
rodgepodge
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Seems to me that Nico's actions caused the coming together, however you want to word it. And these were deliberate actions.

And that's what Mercedes management believe and are therefore very unhappy with him.
Obviously the stewards disagree with you, as do I. For me it was a racing incident, happens time and time again. These people are racing incredibly powerful cars at high speeds, accidents will happen with no deliberate intention.
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Old 24-08-2014, 19:45
indiana44
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I would say the big blow up was at Hungary where Rosberg was told Hamilton would move over and the latter refused to do so. Then the team backed Hamilton over Rosberg despite telling the latter something different during the race itself. Rosberg may have felt then that team orders should not be questioned but Hamilton was being given a free reign to defy orders when he wanted to, therefore elevating him ahead of Rosberg despite the fact that Rosberg was leading the Championship. In his eyes it was no longer even or fair and he would no longer get any support from the team over Hamilton.

Hamilton also commented that he was astonished that Rosberg's bitterness over Hungary still existed now so he must have been stewing on it throughout the break.
I think in all the circumstances the team considered that their initial call for Lewis to let Nico through could be seen as unreasonable by Lewis ( they were still on for big constructor points and the two drivers were meant to be fighting for the championship with neither given precedence, ahead in the championship or not ).

Nico it seems has overreacted, and possibly already been privately saying stuff that had the team management wary about what might develop in the future.
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Old 24-08-2014, 19:54
indiana44
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Obviously the stewards disagree with you, as do I. For me it was a racing incident, happens time and time again. These people are racing incredibly powerful cars at high speeds, accidents will happen with no deliberate intention.
I think that you are having difficulty distinguishing between what would be looked on as a normal racing incident ( which fair enough was the stewards opinion ) and an eminently avoidable coming together of two teammates, moreover for the constructor leading team.

Mercedes have given their drivers general license to race, Nico abused this license with his unacceptably risky actions.
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Old 24-08-2014, 20:00
rodgepodge
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I think that you are having difficulty distinguishing between what would be looked on as a normal racing incident ( which fair enough was the stewards opinion ) and an eminently avoidable coming together of two teammates, moreover for the constructor leading team.

Mercedes have given their drivers general license to race, Nico abused this license with his unacceptably risky actions.
No, having no difficulty whatsoever, it was a racing incident, we are talking inches here, nothing deliberate. If it was risky, the stewards would have taken action, they didn't.
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Old 24-08-2014, 20:02
D_Peugeot
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I think that you are having difficulty distinguishing between what would be looked on as a normal racing incident ( which fair enough was the stewards opinion ) and an eminently avoidable coming together of two teammates, moreover for the constructor leading team.

Mercedes have given their drivers general license to race, Nico abused this license with his unacceptably risky actions.
Why is it people like you think you have more knowledge and expertise than the race stewards?
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Old 24-08-2014, 20:12
David Tee
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Obviously the stewards disagree with you, as do I. For me it was a racing incident, happens time and time again. These people are racing incredibly powerful cars at high speeds, accidents will happen with no deliberate intention.
"These people" are professional racing drivers, with finely tuned instincts and incredible reaction times. They know only too well what will cause an accident, and how to avoid it - even when they're right on the edge.

For reasons that may, may not, become clear, Rosberg decided to make a point - he chose to persist. It was a conscious decision - to use your words, it was intended and it was deliberate. Given that Hamilton had no reason to give way, once Rosberg had made that decision an accident was always a strong possibility.

I'm sure that Rosberg didn't want to cause an accident - but that's not the point. The decision he took led to the accident.
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Old 24-08-2014, 20:16
Fudd
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I think in all the circumstances the team considered that their initial call for Lewis to let Nico through could be seen as unreasonable by Lewis ( they were still on for big constructor points and the two drivers were meant to be fighting for the championship with neither given precedence, ahead in the championship or not ).

Nico it seems has overreacted, and possibly already been privately saying stuff that had the team management wary about what might develop in the future.
The problem is that the dispute seemed to last throughout the race. While Mercedes accepted that Hamilton wouldn't move over they - from what we heard - never said that they felt they made an error; more that they backtracked as Hamilton argued.

"These people" are professional racing drivers, with finely tuned instincts and incredible reaction times. They know only too well what will cause an accident, and how to avoid it - even when they're right on the edge.

For reasons that may, may not, become clear, Rosberg decided to make a point - he chose to persist. It was a conscious decision - to use your words, it was intended and it was deliberate. Given that Hamilton had no reason to give way, once Rosberg had made that decision an accident was always a strong possibility.

I'm sure that Rosberg didn't want to cause an accident - but that's not the point. The decision he took led to the accident.
But there have been numerous accidents even more ludicrous than today's which, going by your argument, professional racing drivers should have avoided.
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Old 24-08-2014, 20:17
TVScourge
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I like how after two incidents this year, Rosberg is already being compared to Michael Schumacher and should be hanged, drawn and quartered.
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Old 24-08-2014, 20:25
crake
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As this minimum type of contact has happened several times over the past few seasons causing punctures, why not make the sidewall of the tyres a little tougher.
My understanding is that you are far more likely to damage your front wing than cause a puncture in the car in front. Although I have seen punctures like this before, it is usually just the guy behind who messes up their front wing.
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Old 24-08-2014, 20:27
crake
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Why is it people like you think you have more knowledge and expertise than the race stewards?
The fact the race stewards didn't even bother to look into it should tell us all something. It was a racing incident and one which many times would have hurt Rosberg more than Lewis.

Lewis it seems doesn't have much luck!
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Old 24-08-2014, 20:40
TheToonArmy
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It was a racing incident, An incident that Rosberg CAUSED, deliberate or not.
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Old 24-08-2014, 20:47
tasker
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Under instruction from his team.

Rosberg deliberately cheats on the track. There is a difference. He may win the battle but he is unlikely to win the war.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28922696

And Hamilton doing this is not cheating? Lying and saying Rosberg deliberately caused the crash (which a is wrong and b would be a stupid stunt at racing speeds by anybody)

The 10 year old rapper he has become needs to reign it in and stop throwing his toys out, F1 is for big boys, it gets rough and there is no F1 driver in history that hasn't tried to go for a gap that is not there.
Maybe he should spend a season in touring cars, he wouldn't last race and if he lied about what one of those drivers had said to the stewards he would be on his arse.
Really don't like what Hamilton has become.
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Old 24-08-2014, 20:53
TheToonArmy
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28922696

And Hamilton doing this is not cheating? Lying and saying Rosberg deliberately caused the crash (which a is wrong and b would be a stupid stunt at racing speeds by anybody)

The 10 year old rapper he has become needs to reign it in and stop throwing his toys out, F1 is for big boys, it gets rough and there is no F1 driver in history that hasn't tried to go for a gap that is not there.
Maybe he should spend a season in touring cars, he wouldn't last race and if he lied about what one of those drivers had said to the stewards he would be on his arse.
Really don't like what Hamilton has become.
From the same article,

Wolff admitted Hamilton had accurately represented what Rosberg said, but added: "Nico felt he needed to hold his line. He needed to make a point and for Lewis it was clearly not him who needed to be aware of Nico.
How can he be lying if he accurately represented what Rosberg said, it's interpretation
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Old 24-08-2014, 20:56
BinaryDad
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And Hamilton doing this is not cheating? Lying and saying Rosberg deliberately caused the crash (which a is wrong and b would be a stupid stunt at racing speeds by anybody)
I'm not sure how Hamilton relaying what was said in the meeting is lying or cheating, Merc backed him up saying that what he said was broadly true, and then Toto had to do some PR fire fighting,

Your personal incredulity doesn't make Hamilton's remarks any less valid.

The 10 year old rapper he has become needs to reign it in and stop throwing his toys out, F1 is for big boys, it gets rough and there is no F1 driver in history that hasn't tried to go for a gap that is not there
There's going for a gap and there's going around the outside and keeping your car there after it hasn't worked, knowing that it'll cause some sort of contact if you don't back off. That's fairly deliberate. Just because others have caused incidents in the past, doesn't excuse Rosberg's actions at Spa today.
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Old 24-08-2014, 20:59
jonner101
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My understanding is that you are far more likely to damage your front wing than cause a puncture in the car in front. Although I have seen punctures like this before, it is usually just the guy behind who messes up their front wing.
I don't think there was any real logic, just the red mist got to Rosberg after Hamilton got ahead of him at the start and Rosberg made a silly mistake.

Which ever source or wording I look at, I can't see any other conclusion than that Rosberg deliberately let the collision occur.

The whole situation is a mess and Mercedes PR handling has been appalling.
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Old 24-08-2014, 21:26
indiana44
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No, having no difficulty whatsoever, it was a racing incident, we are talking inches here, nothing deliberate. If it was risky, the stewards would have taken action, they didn't.
Why do you think that Toto Wolff and Niki Lauda showed such annoyance and said that it was unacceptable ?

Because, although between different teams' cars it would be looked on as a racing incident, so understandably the stewards viewed it as such, between supposed teammates it was quite unacceptable to put both team cars at such risk.

It's not rocket science here
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Old 24-08-2014, 21:42
Forza Ferrari
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When Nicco says he decided to hold his line to make a point then his point is that he is going to race and pass Lewis were possible.

His point is not that he is just going to crash Hamilton and have him off.

All that happend on lap 2 today was an error in judgement which unluckly puntured hamiltons tyre.

If Hamilton's tyre did not punture the he would have won the race and Rosberg would have struggled with the broken front wing. A lot less discussion and fewer booos from the boo boys in this event.
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Old 24-08-2014, 21:58
Forza Ferrari
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Here is some great reporting on the subject.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formul...ilton-4100974?

The German gets written in red bold letters like all the other inflamitory parts of the article. Notice also that Nikki Lauda is the overlord of Mercedes.

Decent British people must be pretty embarrased that this sort of primitive thinking exists in their country and worse still in a mainstream news paper.
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Old 24-08-2014, 22:26
dansus
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I'm not sure what you are trying to prove but it's irrelevant to the main issue, that Rosberg was irresponsibly careless or turned in deliberately. In either case, it's unacceptable.

Whether or not any understeer occurred (and I haven't seen or heard any official or the media suggest that) is beside the point.
Calm yourself, this type of driving is the normal state of things as the championship gets heated. Now its Rosberg, later it could be Hamilton and you will look a bit foolish if you carry on with this line of judgement.

Dont know why everyone is going on about understeer being a factor for hitting Hamilton, If he had any more understeer, he would have gone off the track, away from Lewis's tyre.
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Old 24-08-2014, 22:42
TheToonArmy
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Here is some great reporting on the subject.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formul...ilton-4100974?

The German gets written in red bold letters like all the other inflamitory parts of the article. Notice also that Nikki Lauda is the overlord of Mercedes.

Decent British people must be pretty embarrased that this sort of primitive thinking exists in their country and worse still in a mainstream news paper.
Forza, Grow up, its in red to show clickable links.
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Old 24-08-2014, 22:45
indiana44
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Calm yourself, this type of driving is the normal state of things as the championship gets heated. Now its Rosberg, later it could be Hamilton and you will look a bit foolish if you carry on with this line of judgement.

Dont know why everyone is going on about understeer being a factor for hitting Hamilton, If he had any more understeer, he would have gone off the track, away from Lewis's tyre.
Do you think that Toto Wolff and Niki Lauda were "foolish" for being so clearly annoyed at Nico's actions ?

It seems they had this strange idea that putting both Mercedes cars at such risk was unacceptable.

I can see why.
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Old 24-08-2014, 22:45
gemma-the-husky
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German team, german driver.
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