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Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 8)
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Sabre92
25-08-2014
The thing I find stupid with what Rosberg did is that he only had to sit behind Lewis for one more lap and he would've had the DRS. With the speed advantage he looked to have in the early part of the race, had he got a run like that with the DRS available to him he'd have been past Hamilton before the braking zone.

Regardless of whether or not he did it on purpose, with the championship as it is and in the circumstances it was stupid for him to try the pass at that point in the race.
Si_Crewe
25-08-2014
Originally Posted by Sabre92:
“The thing I find stupid with what Rosberg did is that he only had to sit behind Lewis for one more lap and he would've had the DRS. With the speed advantage he looked to have in the early part of the race, had he got a run like that with the DRS available to him he'd have been past Hamilton before the braking zone.

Regardless of whether or not he did it on purpose, with the championship as it is and in the circumstances it was stupid for him to try the pass at that point in the race.”

Uhuh,

Related to the above, I'd imagine he was a bit pissed-off at losing the lead at the start and then getting dumped into 3rd place.
He'd blown past Vettel on the straight and was probably just in "maximum attack mode" when they arrived at LC.

If he was working on the assumption that the debrief would remain private, he probably figured that he'd already lost the sympathy of the public but he could make use of the incident by claiming he did it deliberately in order to make Hamilton think twice about going wheel to wheel with him again.
Course, he probably didn't count on Lewis coming out and broadcasting that information in public and then other Merc' people confirming that he'd said it.
Stunty
25-08-2014
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“Interesting point there...

Seems like the big issue has become that Rosberg has announced that he's had enough of getting out of Hamilton's way and that he deliberately didn't yield etc.

Funny thing is, unless my memory is playing tricks on me, Rosberg was pretty-much alongside Hamilton at the end of the straight, dropped back behind him as they went through LC and (to me, at least) it looked like he was in the process of trying to drop behind Hamilton and switch-back inside him when he caught his front wing on Hamilton's rear wheel.

Just occurs to me; I wonder if Rosberg is deliberately making all these noises about refusing to yield because he thinks that's less embarrassing than admitting that he just misjudged the switch-back manoeuvre?”

A good assumption.

It would have been a 50/50 chance that Rosberg's car would have suffered some major damage, or a front puncture, which may have put him out of the race, so it was not a deliberate attempt to put Lewis out of the race and be sure it would not affect himself.

All this stuff that EJ came up with for the drivers not to challenge each other in the first two laps, however it was fine to do so after that? So what is so diferent between the first and second lap, and taking one another out on the third lap?

I like EJ and his banter with DC, from a team owner and driver point of view is always interesting, and nearly always contrary to each other.
Sabre92
25-08-2014
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“Uhuh,

Related to the above, I'd imagine he was a bit pissed-off at losing the lead at the start and then getting dumped into 3rd place.
He'd blown past Vettel on the straight and was probably just in "maximum attack mode" when they arrived at LC.

If he was working on the assumption that the debrief would remain private, he probably figured that he'd already lost the sympathy of the public but he could make use of the incident by claiming he did it deliberately in order to make Hamilton think twice about going wheel to wheel with him again.
Course, he probably didn't count on Lewis coming out and broadcasting that information in public and then other Merc' people confirming that he'd said it.”

The 'maximum attack mode' that you mention shows a big flaw in his driving imo. He may well have been annoyed at losing the lead, but at that point and with a faster car than Lewis, he just had to be patient and wait for an opportunity.

Had he waited a lap and then got the same run up to Les Combes with the DRS he'd have blown straight past him and been clear to run his own race, and it's probably what the likes of Alonso or Ricciardo would've done in that position, not try a highly ambitious overtake on lap two of a 44 lap race and then allow a collision which could easily have ended just as badly for him as it did for Lewis to happen.

The reality is that unless the two drivers keep tripping each other up, it's Mercedes' title to lose, and so for Nico to risk everything on that move so early on was wrong. He wasn't desperately trying to work his way through the field like Lewis in Germany or Hungary, he was in second place and that stage able to run faster than the one man in the race ahead of him. If he'd waited one more lap he'd probably have made the move.

Whatever point Nico wanted to make, he went about it in completely the wrong way, and it ruined both his and his teammate's race.
Fudd
25-08-2014
On Sky (I'm not sure what the BBC said) they seemed to feel that Hamilton had the faster car, so Rosberg felt it was overtake at Les Combes or be stuck behind him for the entire race, unless he was able to get the jump in the pit stops.

A mountain is being made out of a molehill because Hamilton and Mercedes have made it that way by speaking out in the way they have. It's not what they said, it's how they've said it - aggressively emotional without a filter. They've created this mess and just leaving the drivers to 'calm down' (as per the quotes this morning) is hardly going to help. Rosberg stewed for three weeks post Hungary; in his eyes the team is so far up Hamilton's backside they're looking at everything through his mouth.
ustarion
25-08-2014
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“On Sky (I'm not sure what the BBC said) they seemed to feel that Hamilton had the faster car, so Rosberg felt it was overtake at Les Combes or be stuck behind him for the entire race, unless he was able to get the jump in the pit stops.

A mountain is being made out of a molehill because Hamilton and Mercedes have made it that way by speaking out in the way they have. It's not what they said, it's how they've said it - aggressively emotional without a filter. They've created this mess and just leaving the drivers to 'calm down' (as per the quotes this morning) is hardly going to help. Rosberg stewed for three weeks post Hungary; in his eyes the team is so far up Hamilton's backside they're looking at everything through his mouth.”

Then he would be even more deluded than ever seeing as it is Hamilton's car that keeps having all the mechanical issues.
crake
25-08-2014
Originally Posted by ustarion:
“Then he would be even more deluded than ever seeing as it is Hamilton's car that keeps having all the mechanical issues.”

How does that disprove that the team favour Hamilton?
ustarion
25-08-2014
Originally Posted by crake:
“How does that disprove that the team favour Hamilton?”

Who's responsible for the car? Who's responsible for the dumb order to let Rosberg through?
Fudd
25-08-2014
Originally Posted by ustarion:
“Who's responsible for the car? Who's responsible for the dumb order to let Rosberg through?”

It could be the way the relative drivers push the car - like Hamilton shredded his brakes in Canada despite warnings to go easy. And he wrecked the car floor yesterday by rushing back to the pits with a punctured tyre when you should slow down.

The order was the best thing for the team to maximise Championship points. I feel they went over-the-top to placate Hamilton post race though it didn't help that the press made a big thing out of it, albeit understandably.
Nessun Dorma
25-08-2014
Originally Posted by allthingsuk:
“Ricciardo is fast becoming another favourite of mine. What a driver. And putting Vettel firmly in the shade

What could this guy do in a Merc or even a Williams?”

Although I wouldn't take anything away from his win and I am sure he is great driver, but at the moment he is more like the the third dog getting the bone.
Forza Ferrari
25-08-2014
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“It could be the way the relative drivers push the car - like Hamilton shredded his brakes in Canda despite warnings to go easy. And he wrecked the car floor yesterday by rushing back to the pits with a punctured tyre when you should slow down.”

Hamilton was stuck between a rock and hard place there go slow to stop damage to the car or go fast enough to spread debris and bring out the safety car.
Nessun Dorma
25-08-2014
Originally Posted by BinaryDad:
“Latest info





So Merc have pretty much thrown Nico to the wolves by backing up Hamilton's quote so readily.”

Assuming the quotes are as accurate as we have been led to believe, it serves him right.
indiana44
25-08-2014
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“Interesting point there...

Seems like the big issue has become that Rosberg has announced that he's had enough of getting out of Hamilton's way and that he deliberately didn't yield etc.

Funny thing is, unless my memory is playing tricks on me, Rosberg was pretty-much alongside Hamilton at the end of the straight, dropped back behind him as they went through LC and (to me, at least) it looked like he was in the process of trying to drop behind Hamilton and switch-back inside him when he caught his front wing on Hamilton's rear wheel.

Just occurs to me; I wonder if Rosberg is deliberately making all these noises about refusing to yield because he thinks that's less embarrassing than admitting that he just misjudged the switch-back manoeuvre?”

Interesting.

Actually for all the drama about Nico supposedly claiming he wasn't backing out, and making a point, to my mind it appeared he was doing just that just before impact, when it was clear that Lewis quite reasonably was not about to assist him.

He may initially have been trying to make a point, but I think he realised it wasn't going anywhere, but a quite likely collision or run off, so was in the process of dropping back in behind Lewis ( possibly thinking of trying to switch back again, I don't know ), but actually misjudged how deep he had gone in and didn't back off enough. And in the end hit Lewis, while in the process of backing off from his supposed non backing off.

But that explanation might look a bit embarrassing...
Nessun Dorma
25-08-2014
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“Maybe the Mercedes PR team is on holiday; their handling of this has been little short of disastrous. Why did Lauda and Wolff speak out before talking properly to Rosberg? Why was Hamilton allowed to reveal what happened in the debrief in such a forthright way? Why did Mercedes seem to back him up without any clarifying comments? Normally the team tries to calm everything down in situations like this - in this case they've stirred it up further. If Rosberg wasn't in 'sod it' mood before he will be now.”

Really? Tell me.....what is everyone talking about?
Nessun Dorma
25-08-2014
Originally Posted by D_Peugeot:
“Erm, have you read Wolff's comments? Either Hamilton has lied, or has deliberately misinterpreted Rosberg's comments.

http://www.espn.co.uk/belgium/motors...ry/172425.html”

Quote:
“but that Rosberg was trying to make a point by not backing out.”

Sounds pretty much a confirmation to me. If I went to my insurance company and admitted that I knew that by staying on the course I was on would cause a collision, but I decided I wanted to make a point against the other driver, I wonder who they would blame?
Nessun Dorma
25-08-2014
Originally Posted by rodgepodge:
“From ESPN, "Hamilton said Rosberg had admitted to causing the collision on purpose, but Wolff, who was also at the meeting , said that was not the case." Someone is lying and Hamilton has done that before (I don't know if Rosberg has). For me, it was just a racing incident.”

Monaco qualifying 2014.
Nessun Dorma
25-08-2014
Originally Posted by D_Peugeot:
“I wonder if Hamilton had won the race, or finished on the podium he'd have been so eager to smear his team mate.”

I think Rosberg had done a pretty good job of doing that himself.
Nessun Dorma
25-08-2014
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“Britain 2014 qualifying?”

How did he cheat at Silverstone?
gomezz
25-08-2014
It looked like he was trying to back Nico up so he would not cross the line in time to do a last flying lap.
Nessun Dorma
25-08-2014
Originally Posted by surfie:
“The reason the stewards did not look into it is because the allegations that Rosberg deliberately hit Hamilton did not come out until the race results had been made official. The FIA though can take retrospective action against Rosberg if need be.”

Originally Posted by D_Peugeot:
“What?

Stewards will asses incidents during the race itself and determine a resolution. They clearly thought this was a race incident which it was. Hamilton's lies, I doubt will change their view.”

The stewards can investigate any incident for some time after the actual race. If they decide to issue sanctions against Rosberg they can do.
Nessun Dorma
25-08-2014
Originally Posted by gomezz:
“It looked like he was trying to back Nico up so he would not cross the line in time to do a last flying lap.”

What??? I don't think I've heard anything so absurd for a long time. You seem to be the only person with this opinion.
indiana44
25-08-2014
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“It could be the way the relative drivers push the car - like Hamilton shredded his brakes in Canada despite warnings to go easy. And he wrecked the car floor yesterday by rushing back to the pits with a punctured tyre when you should slow down.

The order was the best thing for the team to maximise Championship points. I feel they went over-the-top to placate Hamilton post race though it didn't help that the press made a big thing out of it, albeit understandably.”

The order did seem pretty dumb. With their huge constructors lead and still on for good constructors points, to ask / tell Hamilton to move over and compromise himself against Rosberg coming back again later at him, just to try and eek out every constructors point, to my mind brought a very understandable reaction from Lewis.

If you quite admirably say you are letting them fight ( albeit without endangering both cars, Nico ! ) it didn't make much sense for Lewis to endanger the clear advantageous position he had over Nico, just for a few extra constructors points. It seemed to me a not very well thought out intervention, looking at the big picture. And things would possibly all be a lot calmer now ( and much more boring ! ) if that initial call in Hungary had never gone out.

And it seems Nico has been quite unable to understand it from Lewis's point of view, and then makes a much better job at really putting many many more constructors points at risk.
Nessun Dorma
25-08-2014
Originally Posted by rodgepodge:
“I accept the crash was Rosberg's fault, but Hamilton could also have avoided it. I'm simply saying a mistake was made and not a deliberate one. I crashed my motorbike three times many years ago, all my fault but none of them deliberate, they were deliberate acts but not with the intention of crashing, I thought I would stay on the road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9hXvw9yMw8”

It wasn't up to Lewis to avoid anything. He was on the racing line line, it was Rosberg's responsibility to avoid the collision.
gomezz
25-08-2014
Originally Posted by Nessun Dorma:
“What??? I don't think I've heard anything so absurd for a long time. You seem to be the only person with this opinion.”

Not really. It was well discussed at the time.
indiana44
25-08-2014
Originally Posted by Nessun Dorma:
“It wasn't up to Lewis to avoid anything. He was on the racing line line, it was Rosberg's responsibility to avoid the collision.”

Indeed. Are stupid moves to be encouraged in F1 by expecting lead cars to make room and compromise themselves on the basis that some eedjit is not going to back out of said stupid move ?
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