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Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 8)


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Old 05-10-2014, 10:07
roger_50
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Personally I don't think the conditions or start time were to blame. Races in even worse conditions are played out nearly every year.

Perhaps track side procedures are where the sport needs to look into. ie, when one car slides off in wet conditions, should the tractor come out immediately or wait for the yellow flags to have been waved for a good while further back down the road?

I worry that that the marshalls and tractor came out immediately after Sutil's initial crash before the other cars had finished negotiating the corner. If it had just been Sutil's car there when Bianchi slid off he would have been alright (assuming Sutil stayed in the cockpit till safe to leave).

But then we're getting into the subject of voluntary marshalls and whether the capacity is there to improve trackside accident procedures.
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Old 05-10-2014, 10:17
gomezz
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Sorry, but I think that's a highly inappropriate post
I think it is the elephant in the room that must not be ignored if you are genuinely interested in improving safety..
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Old 05-10-2014, 10:18
ClarkF1
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I worry that that the marshalls and tractor came out immediately after Sutil's initial crash before the other cars had finished negotiating the corner. If it had just been Sutil's car there when Bianchi slid off he would have been alright (assuming Sutil stayed in the cockpit till safe to leave).
Sutil said he was behind Bianchi when he went off, Bianchi went off the following lap when the marshals were in recovery mode. I can't remember whether the safety car was already out at that point after Sutil's crash.
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Old 05-10-2014, 10:19
Si_Crewe
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Personally I don't think the conditions or start time were to blame. Races in even worse conditions are played out nearly every year.

Perhaps track side procedures are where the sport needs to look into. ie, when one car slides off in wet conditions, should the tractor come out immediately or wait for the yellow flags to have been waved for a good while further back down the road?

I worry that that the marshalls and tractor came out immediately after Sutil's initial crash before the other cars had finished negotiating the corner. If it had just been Sutil's car there when Bianchi slid off he would have been alright (assuming Sutil stayed in the cockpit till safe to leave).

But then we're getting into the subject of voluntary marshalls and whether the capacity is there to improve trackside accident procedures.
There were a lot of very carefully worded comments being made in the media pen.

I mean, if a driver specifically comments about the failing light or the track conditions it could easily be seen as a criticism of the race officials which has, apparently, led to a serious incident.

You're right though.
As we saw today, drivers can lose control even when they're following a safety car.
I don't think the conditions were especially bad and, for Sutil to have been out of the car to see Bianchi's crash, it would seem to have happened quite some time after the yellow flags were waved.
Seems like the most likely scenario is just an unfortunate set of circumstances all coming together.

Incidentally, I see the BBC now has something up saying Bianchi was "unconscious" when he was taken to hospital.
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Old 05-10-2014, 10:21
solare
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According to Rosberg, Bianchi's condition is 'very, very serious' (BBC website).
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Old 05-10-2014, 10:27
Mystical123
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I think it is the white elephant in the room that must not be ignored if you are genuinely interested in improving safety..
There's a time and a place for that discussion, and it's not now, certainly not while we don't even know if Bianchi is going to be ok. I think it's highly insensitive to be criticising and speculating at a time like this. Have a bit of respect for Bianchi and his loved ones. Maybe take a lead from how respectful the other drivers are being.

Undoubtedly conversations about safety will be had, but there's no need to do it now. I don't understand why it's so difficult to show a basic bit of decency and wait for an appropriate moment for a post like that.

According to Rosberg, Bianchi's condition is 'very, very serious' (BBC website).
Yes, sadly he said that in his interview on the Forum.
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Old 05-10-2014, 10:34
gomezz
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There's a time and a place for that discussion, and it's not now
It certainly is now serving as a timely reminder to all those race drivers heading out today all over the country and the world in their own events that yellow means yellow.
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Old 05-10-2014, 10:39
TVScourge
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We never saw the accident. With weather like that, it could easily happen even at slow speeds as Ericsson demonstrated.

Might as well say in general regarding the race itself, as someone who backs Rosberg I wasn't best pleased when he was overtaken and rather tried to go back to sleep periodically checking my iPhone for any hope of change, alas it wasn't to be but I'm not upset about it anymore, at least not upset over the Hamilton/Rosberg thing. Things have been put into perspective, not least because of Bianchi's situation, but also in terms of Rosberg's attitude to the championship, he doesn't appear to be particularly upset about how the race went for him.

Now I'm not upset for him either this time. Just instead I'm keeping tabs on the news of Bianchi. This sounds horribly similar to the crash that eventually killed Marussia test driver Maria de Villota.
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Old 05-10-2014, 10:47
Forza Ferrari
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I've seen one picture of the crash and it dosen't make a lot of sense so it is hard to know what this is telling us but certainly there has been a very serious impact and cause to be concerned.
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Old 05-10-2014, 10:57
geemonkee
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Hamilton is such a superior racer to Rosberg it hurts. There's still a chance Rosberg could get lucky and take the title, but it would be a bit of a travesty if he did.

Hope Bianchi's okay.
Over the course of a whole season, whoever is top of the pile deserves to be there - don't think you could label them lucky.
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Old 05-10-2014, 11:00
geemonkee
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Amount of times over the years, have heard Brundle talk about the possibility of a driver crashing into the site of another crash...
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Old 05-10-2014, 11:01
surfie
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Having seen a photo of the marshals working on Bianchi's car - posted on the Telegraph's website - it does not look good. Most of the air box on the rear of the car is missing. What is left points to some of the air box having been forced under the roll bar into the back of Bianchi's head.
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Old 05-10-2014, 11:13
Gizmo210688
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Having seen a photo of the marshals working on Bianchi's car - posted on the Telegraph's website - it does not look good. Most of the air box on the rear of the car is missing. What is left points to some of the air box having been forced under the roll bar into the back of Bianchi's head.
It's a scary photo, thoughts are with Bianchi right now. Feel very uncomfortable .
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Old 05-10-2014, 11:27
geemonkee
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This picture doesn't look very promising either:

http://p5.focus.de/img/fotos/origs41...5/bianchi3.jpg

Devil's advocate here - with the conditions in mind and taking into consideration the manner in which Sutil crashed (aquaplaning in ever worsening conditions and the probabilty higher of another driver having the same problem?). Should the safety car have been deployed sooner?
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Old 05-10-2014, 11:30
Regis Magnae
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This picture doesn't look very promising either:

http://p5.focus.de/img/fotos/origs41...5/bianchi3.jpg

Devil's advocate here - with the conditions in mind and taking into consideration the manner in which Sutil crashed (aquaplaning in ever worsening conditions and the probabilty higher of another driver having the same problem?). Should the safety car have been deployed sooner?

I think the safety car should have been deployed sooner. Brundle even suggested it might.
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Old 05-10-2014, 11:38
Fudd
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Amount of times over the years, have heard Brundle talk about the possibility of a driver crashing into the site of another crash...
'Going to the scene of an accident' - the number of times I've heard that said but I have rarely seen that happen in recent years, if at all.

(I mean while recovery mode is ongoing for the original accident).
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Old 05-10-2014, 11:40
Fudd
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Felipe Massa has said he was calling for the safety car to be deployed five laps before the accident occurred due to conditions.
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Old 05-10-2014, 11:47
Mystical123
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It certainly is now serving as a timely reminder to all those race drivers heading out today all over the country and the world in their own events that yellow means yellow.
You really don't get my point, do you? What you're implying is that Bianchi was ignoring yellows and was in some way to blame for the accident. That is pure, baseless, classless speculation that is nothing but distasteful and hurtful. There is nothing to suggest that Bianchi did anything wrong, nothing to suggest that he could have avoided the incident.

A driver is in hospital, potentially in a very serious condition, and all you can do is pile blame on him without any proof whatsoever. I'm sorry, but I find that highly inappropriate and disrespectful, and it has no place on a forum or anywhere at a time like this. Imagine if you were his family, would you like to read that? I don't think so.
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Old 05-10-2014, 11:49
BinaryDad
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Have a bit of respect for Bianchi and his loved ones. Maybe take a lead from how respectful the other drivers are being.
I feel you're being overly sensitive here and are possibly looking for a reason to kick up a fuss.

You can discuss the possibility of an incident being down to the driver to some degree, without pointing the finger and labelling them as being at fault. And in this case, it's a valid discussion point. As long as people aren't piling on blame, I don't see a reason not to discuss what has happened.

Yes, there's a chance that Bianchi was not slowing significantly for local yellows. And this is either a malfunction of the on-track process in not making it full yellows or a SC period or a fault of the driver who is trusted to follow warning signals in the appropriate manner. It worries me that Sutil resorts that Biancahi's off was "just like his" which suggests he may not have been slowing down.

Now that last bit isn't about blaming Bianachi - it's about considering the point that drivers can't always be trusted and perhaps a SC would have been more appropriate given the conditions.

As for the drivers being respectful; I imagine that they've all been briefed and asked to ensure that they don't say anything that may incriminate the FIA, marshals or Bianachi in case it goes from an accident investigation by the authorities to an investigation into a persons death.
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Old 05-10-2014, 12:02
roger_50
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Over the course of a whole season, whoever is top of the pile deserves to be there - don't think you could label them lucky.
I disagree. Things aren't always as black&white as that.
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Old 05-10-2014, 12:13
Mystical123
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I feel you're being overly sensitive here and are possibly looking for a reason to kick up a fuss.
Not at all, why on earth would I be looking for a reason to kick up a fuss?

I merely don't see any justifiable reason for all the speculation and probing so soon, when we don't even know what condition Bianchi is in.

If that makes me overly sensitive, so be it, I don't care. I've been affected enough by vehicle accidents involving people I know and love to know that there's a time and a place for blame and speculation, but the immediate aftermath is not it. The most important thing is Bianchi's condition and respect for his friends and family. There's no need for any other discussion and speculation at a time like this - nothing that can't be said in the coming days and weeks. It doesn't have to be said now, and it's not hard to see that sometimes saying nothing is the respectful thing to do.
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Old 05-10-2014, 12:25
Forza Ferrari
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Bianchi said to be in surgery for head trauma.
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Old 05-10-2014, 12:40
davethecue
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Confirmation of the above post

Marussia driver Jules Bianchi is undergoing surgery after suffering a severe head injury at the Japanese Grand Prix, the FIA has announced.
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Old 05-10-2014, 12:50
a01020304
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fia statement
https://twitter.com/Dan_Rigsby/statu...791616/photo/1
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Old 05-10-2014, 13:10
idlewilde
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Sad news. A sobering reminder of how, despite modern advances in F1 safety, the risks are still very real.
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