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Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 8)
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BinaryDad
07-11-2014
Originally Posted by Grouty:
“Sad news about Marussia ”

While I feel for the employees of the team, that's just the nature of motorsport. They came in looking to invest the minimum of money, and got back what that was worth; almost nothing. While there needs to be some spending control on F1 teams, and I don't want to see a return to the extremes of 2007 - 2012 where RBR, McLaren and Ferrari were spending 400m+; you need to be willing to invest a significant amount to be competitive.

We've seen bigger names than these two teams come and go in the past - Toyota, BMW, Tyrrell, Lotus, Matra to name just a few. F1 wasn't in a crisis then, and it's not in a crisis now because these two teams were unable to balance their books.
dansus
08-11-2014
Jenson is on his way to WEC with Toyota, to be announced next week, according to normally solid sources.
Si_Crewe
08-11-2014
Random thought for the day:-

Having already won the Constructors championship and having nothing left to gain there, if Hamilton or Rosberg suffer a problem with their car at Brazil or Abu Dhabi, I wonder if Merc' would consider fitting new engines/gearboxes/steering wheels etc in both cars, starting them both from the pit-lane and giving them both an equal opportunity to fight for the title?

Just occurred to me that Brazil really is one of those tracks where it's possible to fight your way through the field and that, if reliability was in doubt, this weekend might be the time to fit new parts, even if it meant taking a penalty, to ensure that both drivers have the best possible machinery for the finale.
Course, if you were doing that as a preventative measure, it'd be unfair to do it to one and not the other.

So, might we see both Rosberg and Hamilton taking a new engine penalty this weekend, in readiness for Abu Dhabi?

Seems like we have a unique opportunity to create a bit of excitement here.
Merc' have already won the Constructors title and only Rosberg or Hamilton can win the WDC.
Start 'em both from the back of the grid in both remaining races and make 'em race for the title!
Assa2
08-11-2014
Originally Posted by BinaryDad:
“While I feel for the employees of the team, that's just the nature of motorsport. They came in looking to invest the minimum of money, and got back what that was worth; almost nothing. While there needs to be some spending control on F1 teams, and I don't want to see a return to the extremes of 2007 - 2012 where RBR, McLaren and Ferrari were spending 400m+; you need to be willing to invest a significant amount to be competitive.

We've seen bigger names than these two teams come and go in the past - Toyota, BMW, Tyrrell, Lotus, Matra to name just a few. F1 wasn't in a crisis then, and it's not in a crisis now because these two teams were unable to balance their books.”

Sorry but I think these teams deserve a little more sympathy than that. This isn't the same situation as previous back-markers going under or the larger teams you mentioned withdrawing from the sport. These were teams literally lured into the sport on the promise of reduced, capped costs and a fairer distribution of money and those promises were broken. At the same time the MINIMUM costs of taking part have rocketed making it untenable for these teams to continue operating. That isn't their fault, it was something beyond their control. They could have been 'responsible' and wound themselves up months ago, perhaps even before the season started. The result would be the same - people unemployed, creditors unpaid etc... and it would be Sauber, FI & Lotus who would be in even more trouble by now. The sport, by which I mean Bernie and the larger teams, have completely shirked their collective responsibility and have put the future of F1 at risk. Unless things dramatically change over the winter more teams will go under next year and the reputation of the sport will be in tatters. The teams looking to join in 2016 will have second thoughts and no amount of promises from Bernie will change their minds.
Si_Crewe
08-11-2014
Originally Posted by Assa2:
“Sorry but I think these teams deserve a little more sympathy than that. This isn't the same situation as previous back-markers going under or the larger teams you mentioned withdrawing from the sport.”

Funny thing is, given the cost-breakdown posted on the last page, it really does demonstrate how ridiculous any suggestion of a $40m budget-cap really would be.

Seems like the only people who'd benefit from that would be the various shareholders who, assuming the business remained at the same level, would end up being able to pocket double what they now get while the teams would only get a miniscule percentage of the cash and they wouldn't be able to make use of additional funds via sponsorship either.

Seems like the way forward is for a fairer distribution of the cash currently available in F1, rather than making F1, as a whole, a cheaper sport.
Let's face it, Williams is currently doing a good job of things with a budget that could be fairly average (advertising revenue aside) so rebalancing the current finances might be all that's required.

Course, do we really think that either Caterham or Marussia would have done any better with more money?
Unfortunately, I don't.
The only difference would be that it might be financially viable for them to continue trundling around at the back and I'm not entirely sure that's something we should encourage.
TVScourge
08-11-2014
Teams come and go but I worry about more teams leaving than they are joining. When was the last time the season started with less than 19 cars on the grid?

Might as well say Caterham have put up a crowdfunding page on Crowd Cube to try and raise £2,350,000 in time by the 14th. So far they're 13% towards the target.

https://www.crowdcube.com/caterham/
uberman
08-11-2014
Originally Posted by dansus:
“Jenson is on his way to WEC with Toyota, to be announced next week, according to normally solid sources.”

It'll be strange not having him in f1, like Hamilton said, 'Jenson is better than most of the (current) drivers, It's not that McLaren need a better driver - there are not many out there. They just need a better car.'
Magnusson will never be as good as Button is.
Hoffmister
08-11-2014
Originally Posted by uberman:
“It'll be strange not having him in f1, like Hamilton said, 'Jenson is better than most of the (current) drivers, It's not that McLaren need a better driver - there are not many out there. They just need a better car.'
Magnusson will never be as good as Button is.”

Very depressing..but it will save me money canceling my sky f1..
bystander
08-11-2014
Originally Posted by Hoffmister:
“Very depressing..but it will save me money canceling my sky f1..”

Because Button, might be leaving?.......Blimey

I presume you'll be keeping your Disney channel.
Si_Crewe
08-11-2014
After seeing today's quali', I wonder if some of the drivers and teams just don't quite "get" the new quali' tyre rules?

Seems like quite a few of them are still going balls-out for a strong result in Q2 when it seems like the prudent thing is to only do as much as necessary to get into Q3 and look after the tyres as much as possible so they'll last longer in the actual race.
ati_qtimporta
08-11-2014
Si_Crewe what do you think about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ziuy1qHg3I ?????
Si_Crewe
09-11-2014
Originally Posted by ati_qtimporta:
“Si_Crewe what do you think about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ziuy1qHg3I ?????”

Heh, when I heard that I thought "There's a guy who's starting to make the most of knowing he's not going to be there next year".

It doesn't seem like that big a deal really. I mean, maybe it's hard work to charge the ERS battery from a wall-socket and the car makes a better job of it so why not just let the car charge it up?
Course, if that was the case you'd think somebody would've actually told Alonso "Okay, we need you to do a couple of laps to charge the ERS so be VERY careful with your tyres for those laps" rather than, apparently, letting him find out for himself.
TVScourge
09-11-2014
My predictions for the race:

Rosberg will lead for a few laps, Hamilton will close up, overtake him on DRS and run away into the distance. Hamilton wins.
dansus
09-11-2014
RBR and Ferrari to run third cars if Manor and Caterham dont make it next year.

If Alonso is going to Macca, who will run in the third Ferrari?
Assa2
09-11-2014
Originally Posted by TVScourge:
“My predictions for the race:

Rosberg will lead for a few laps, Hamilton will close up, overtake him on DRS and run away into the distance. Hamilton wins.”

I'm not so sure. Williams look like they've almost got the pace to genuinely challenge the Mercs. Hamilton & Rosberg are only racing each other and neither will want to risk a DNF at this stage. If the Williams' can get in among the Mercs they have a real chance of a 2nd or even 1st. Of course it could be that the Mercs have pace to spare.
Assa2
09-11-2014
Originally Posted by dansus:
“RBR and Ferrari to run third cars if Manor and Caterham dont make it next year.

If Alonso is going to Macca, who will run in the third Ferrari?”

Really? Not seen that reported anywhere. I thought they'd agreed 18 cars would be OK.
Si_Crewe
09-11-2014
Originally Posted by Assa2:
“I'm not so sure. Williams look like they've almost got the pace to genuinely challenge the Mercs. Hamilton & Rosberg are only racing each other and neither will want to risk a DNF at this stage. If the Williams' can get in among the Mercs they have a real chance of a 2nd or even 1st. Of course it could be that the Mercs have pace to spare.”

Thing is, "getting amongst the Merc's" is likely to mean that Hamilton loses 2nd place, which is no good for him, or it'll mean that Rosberg's loses the lead, which is no good for him.
The only way it'll go smoothly is if both Williams' pass both Merc's and leave Lewis and Nico fighting for 3rd and 4th.

Interesting the way the official rumour appears to be that RBR and Ferrari will be running 3 cars next year and yet neither Bernie or Horner seem to think any such thing has been agreed.
Horner just said "We need at least 3 or 4 meetings before anything gets agreed and we haven't even agreed on a date for the next meeting yet"

I wonder if JBs manager has been talking to RBR or Ferrari yet?
Seems like a seat in a Ferrari or RBR might appeal to JB, depending on what sort of team support the 3rd car gets.

Interesting interview with Graeme Lowden on Sky just now too.
He seems to be labouring the point that they have a budget for next year, their car for 2015 is on schedule and they're still entitled to participate as long as they only miss 3 races.
Is it possible Marussia have just "temporarily" shut up shop as a means of saving a few quid at the end of the year?

If that is the case, it seems like something that F1 needs to put a stop to or we're going to start seeing teams regularly ducking the last 3 races of the year if they feel like there's nothing to be gained from participating.
TVScourge
09-11-2014
Hamilton within a second of Rosberg. Its only a matter of time when we make it 4 Grand Prix in a row Hamilton leads in the same manner.

Oh nevermind. He literally did a Senna by spinning.
TVScourge
09-11-2014
Ferrari good at screwing up their drivers. A good race for Raikonnen so far until he pitted and the front jackman dropped the jacks before one of the new wheels could be fitted.
d'@ve
09-11-2014
Originally Posted by TVScourge:
“Hamilton within a second of Rosberg. Its only a matter of time when we make it 4 Grand Prix in a row Hamilton leads in the same manner.

Oh nevermind. He literally did a Senna by spinning.”

Rosberg probably hoping that Ham will catch him again but with wrecked tyres then go off or damage his car while trying the undercut or trying to pass.

EDIT

Didn't work, and nearly went pear-shaped for Rosberg! 0.7 seconds gap, this could be fun especially if Rosberg fights back in the way he did on one previous occasion! Tyre worries for Ham?
TVScourge
09-11-2014
DRS time.

EDIT: lol What happened to the DRS? Rosberg wins! Hamilton second and Massa third.
Si_Crewe
09-11-2014
Decent enough race but it was all kinda pointless because, regardless of how they perform today, either of them can still win in Abu Dhabi.

With the benefit of hindsight, I guess you might not want to be the circuit before any future double-points races because it reduces the incentive for teams and drivers to push for the best possible result at your race.

Pundits going on about how Rosberg "needed to win to keep his championship alive" which is patently bollocks.
If either of them won, lost or decided to pull a sickie today it really makes no difference to the possible outcomes in Abu Dhabi.

Nice to see Massa doing well - despite having a scrappy race. Seems like he gets a bit of a rush of blood to the head in his home race.
anyonefortennis
09-11-2014
Has it always been 50 points for a final race win or is this a recent thing?
Si_Crewe
09-11-2014
Originally Posted by anyonefortennis:
“Has it always been 50 points for a final race win or is this a recent thing?”

It was a new thing for this year, designed to prevent the championship being wrapped up prior to the end of the season.
d'@ve
09-11-2014
Originally Posted by Si_Crewe:
“It was a new thing for this year, designed to prevent the championship being wrapped up prior to the end of the season.”

Which it didn't do as it would have gone to the last race anyway! But I'd be furious if I lost a champioship due to double points, which could happen to Ham.

Maybe next year they'll take their stupidity to its logical conclusion by either awarding 51% of all the points to the last race, or having a race-off for the championship between the top ten drivers, after the penultimate race of the season...

<where's that rolleyes when you need it>
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