I agree. But when you've got two racers in a team it's going to be horribly difficult to control. The closest we came to this in recent years is Alonso and Hamilton at McLaren; though on track incidents were rare there was a lot brewing off the circuit. You really need one headstrong driver and one laid back driver to compliment one another - having two of the same is never going to work out; either the team will lack the competitive edge or they'll be at war with one another.

I think the Alonso Hamilton cocktail was because Alonso may not have thought he would be upstaged by Hamilton - he underestimated him.

Hill and Villenauve were quite competitive - but both played fair and didn't take each other out of a race. Hill remains a throwback to the racers of the sixties

As usual the fastest car wins. Bring back the days when the fastest wheel change, quickest refuel and best team strategy won the day. F1 is looking more like Indy Car every season. Processional racing is boring

You say that but Hill was a Sky summariser today and basically said he felt sorry for Vettel! I have the feeling he would have done the same as him in the circumstances.

Wasn't he in that situation when he was at Jordan with Schumacher minor - that Belgian GP ?. Hasn't Hill seen both sides of the coin

...so we'd be back to team orders being given in an underhand cloak and dagger way.

I mean you don't actually believe that that wouldn't happen, do you ?

And as much as we like good competitive racing, the drivers are part of a team and the team 1 - 2 was the priority here.

I understand Vettel doing it as a racer, but not as a team member of RBR, to whom he owes 3 world titles.

Ultimately he has been an utter ***** today.

I realy do miss sitting there all race speculating about how many stops they were going to have and how all that jazz was going to play into the race.

I think so; indeed his position with Villeneuve was very much like Alonso's position with Hamilton - a rooky surprising the number one. Though, saying that, Hill's position was under question when Villeneuve joined.


Ban radio communication and rule that any communication with the driver must come via the pit board. If they try something underhand it's far more likely to be spotted.


No different from Mark Webber in other races. They're both racers and not team players; both need to be clear number one's, which they're not.

I know. It's been like a whole week since strategy was important.

In my opinion, the closeness of the Red Bulls at Webber's last stop, gave Vettel, in his mind the opportunity or possibly, the right to try and pass immediately. Perhaps expecting Webber to heed and allow the pass when Vettel stuck his nose slightly ahead. Also, the different tyre strategy probably made him think Webber may be too slow. But the command had been given and as such should be accepted.

However, both Horner and Marko? seemed unwilling to go severely in their criticism and in a way do want to satisfy and accommodate Vettel in fear perhaps of his departure to Ferrari next term. It's a test of the false PR image they present and does Webber, at his age, think he genuinely is equal, when history clearly demonstrated it wasn't so and his consideration of a spot at Ferrari for himself this term, was really acceptance that he'd never be.

Vettel is selfish and driven to succeed at any cost and when young, can be excused, but I'd be more disappointed if we now have to endure the unmittigating humiliation of a deliberate swap to heal the wound. It's done, right or wrong and put it behind them and get on with proper racing, not orchestrated clap trap nonsense.

They practically uttered word for word the same defence when Webber ignored team orders at Silverstone.


http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/07/1...r-pass-vettel/

I appreciate that but the bad feelings permeating around today's race just isn't healthy IMO and I'd rather we go back to the old way ( when Rob Smedley and Ferrari were hammered for the "Fernando is faster than you" instruction to Massa.)

Any illusions that Rosberg has about being equal and right to race were blown hideously out in the open. Brawn suggesting because Hamilton would battle back was poor in defence as he wouldn't worry about a few points at this stage. Besides he was desperately short on fuel and fully aware of such futility in trying to get the position back. It was safe to allow the pass and the only risk is contractual and thus Rosberg is to play second fiddle so it seems.

I might start watching fomula 1 again at least today's race was a real one ignoring team orders sure was more exciting then the usual procession well done Vettel.

Let's not forget Hamilton ignoring team orders to let Alonso through in qualifying which led to Alonso blocking the pit box (not saying it excuses Alonso).

Edit: btw Button was not under team orders not to pass Hamilton in Turkey.

I disagree, listening to Ross Brawn after the race, it seems Rosberg was low on fuel as well and two them battling over third place would have meant both of them might not have finished with enough fuel in the tanks.

Agreed, it shows there is little animosity and Lewis's contrition after the race, showed that he wasn't rubbing Rosberg's nose in it.

However, I wonder if that might change further down the season?

I fear that this "inter-team" rivalry is merely a sham to put a bit of pep/drama into what would otherwise be a very tedious and predictable procession. I dunno where it's heading when pure racing is an incidental to manufactured drama like squabbling team-mates, disintegrating tyres, crappy wheel nuts and not enough petrol??? I really want to kick-back and enjoy F1... it still has that international glamour and basic appeal but my loyalty's being tested at the mo'.... it's like Vince McMahon of WWE is running it..

Until tomorrow, when he finds out the only seat left is in a Marsussia.

It certainly was a good race, lots of battles up front and best of all Alonso DNF'd on the second lap.

His behaviour today is probably the worst I have seen of him, still doesn't come anywhere even close to match the despicable behaviour displayed by Schumacher during his tenure.

I quite like it. The drivers get to chat about the race with someone who has been there and the crowd get to see it as well.

But ultimately they are both talented racing drivers. They are there to win and will do their best to take advantage of the opportunities presented to them.

He's no worse than a few drivers on the grid, including his team mate.

Do not get me started on Herr Schumacher - I still feel he should have forfeited the 1994 world title for what happened at Adelaide