Originally Posted by BinaryDad:
“Body language for a start. You can lie, but your body language won't. Everything about his actions, including his reaction in the weigh room before the podium says to me that it was genuine. He was angry, frustrated and probably disappointed in himself.”
You do realise that people in the public eye buy/receive training on what to say and how to act. They are taught 'body language' so to speak. So that blows your first argument of 'your body language wont', as it certainly can. I would agree in the heat of the moment, it cant, as you always revert back to raw emotion. However a few minutes later once you have had a chance to calm down, you can.
Originally Posted by BinaryDad:
“Hamilton prefers to win on his own merit, that's always been the way he is. He's said as much in the past when he's inherited positions or a win, and given how uncomfortable he looks when these things happen, I believe him.
There's a world of difference between his body language, and say that of Vettel, who was not sorry at all.”
Err name me a driver who doesnt want to win on his own merit. You make it sound like a quality only Hamilton posses. To be honest when in the green room, Hamilton wasnt on camera, he walked in, and then went of camera. You didnt really see him again, until he came out onto the podium. The cameras focus was on Vettel and Newey, and then on Mark when he came in. On the podium he seemed fine sprayed the champagne, took a swig or two and exchanged a few words with Vettel. He certainly smiled during the presentation.
Originally Posted by BinaryDad:
“Ahh, but you did,”
Only in your own head, perhaps.
Originally Posted by BinaryDad:
“You start out by saying that what everybody is writing is crap. And then proceed to tell us all how it is. And when we protest, you bring out that horrible device used by those with limited ability; the "IMO/IMHO" argument.”
No I didnt start by saying "what everybody is writing is crap". I would go back and read what I said, as you dont seem to know what I wrote. And you think I am the one with limited ability.
No, I didnt tell you all how it is, I told you my opinion, along with reason as to why I thought what I did. If you have a problem with people using IMO, then thats your problem not mine. I dont have a problem with people having a different opinion to mine. Its silly of you to suggest so. Since we are discussing opinions and not facts, there is nothing wrong with using IMO, IMO.
Originally Posted by BinaryDad:
“I tend to ignore the "IMO" because it's as fake as Vettel's apology for disobeying team orders. It's a magical "get out" statement should anybody disagree with you. And here you are, trying to justify your view with its use. It's as if to say "you're not allowed to disagree" or "how dare you disagree with my sacred opinion".
No surprise there then.”
Or as fake as Hamilton's embarrassment? I am not getting out of anything, what gives you that idea. I stick by what I have wrote, and you havent presented any argument or some new facts that I wasnt aware of. The only argument you brought about body language doesnt lie, is not true.
Of course I am justifying my view. Its what normal adults do. One person presents his views and reasoning. The next person presents their view, along with their reasoning, and then they discuss their reasoning. Its what adults do. I used to have the attitude of "you are not allowed to disagree with me", but I grew out of that when I was around 10. That is preposterous, along with "my view is sacred" thing for you to say, how do you come up with something so silly? Do you know how a discussion works?
Originally Posted by BinaryDad:
“You mean, you're allowed to take a pop at people, but nobody is allowed to do return the favor? Talk about double standards.”
Fair enough, I agree with you on that. In my defence I would say, I had a generic pop, and didnt name names, where as you directed at me directly, which is different. But you are right, whats good for the goose is good for the gander.
Originally Posted by BinaryDad:
“As I said, Hamilton had considered it. There were several ways he could have gone about it. But then he has this to say, and what's important, is Brawn's response;”
Hamilton claims to have considered it. From what we have seen of Hamilton, giving up a place is certainly not something he would every think about doing...even when he knows the person behind is faster. You remember the shunt he had with Maldonado last year? Hamiltons tires were shot to pieces, Maldonado who was behind was much faster then he was. Yet Hamilton didnt do the sensible thing of letting him past and not fight for the place. Yet, Hamilton fought with Maldonado, when he knew there was no chance he could keep the position. In the ended they collided, and Hamilton was out of the race. Now you want us to believe that this same Hamilton who wouldnt give a place up when it was the smart thing to do, actually though seriously about giving up to a team mate? Come on, who you trying to kid?
If you want to take the meaning of 'considered' literally, I can well believe that Hamilton considered it for about 0.1 seconds, and then though, no fing way. But seriously considered it, nah no way, not for me.
Originally Posted by BinaryDad:
“So here's the thing. It's his second race for the team, and Brawn needs to have confidence that BOTH drivers will stick to the orders given to them. So if Hamilton messes that up so soon after joining the team, do you think Brawn is going to trust him when he needs to make the tough calls?”
I can see your reasoning here, and can go along with it. However there is a couple of flaws. Firstly Brawn knows whether he can trust Rosberg or not, hes been with the team for a while. If Brawn hasnt figured out Rosberg yet, he never will. So Brawn knows what confidence he has with Rosberg. So it seems Brawn is building confidence with regards to Hamilton.Secondly, the point of building confidence in this situation is not great. He is asking Hamilton to stay ahead of Rosberg...which is what Hamilton wants, so no surprise Hamilton listens to Brawn. Brawn would have learnt a lot more, if Rosberg was infront and told Hamilton to stay behind, or asked Hamilton to let Rosberg pass. In either case this is about Brawn building confidence, and not about Hamilton.
Originally Posted by BinaryDad:
“Just because he didn't move over, doesn't mean that he didn't genuinely feel bad for Nico not being in 3rd place. You;re making the very incorrect assumption that what we do, is related to how we feel about doing it.”
I agree its possible, but Hamiltons makeup suggests otherwise. This is a guy, who cockled up by driving into the Mclaren pit. When asked about it, rather than own up and admit he made a mistake. He deflected from himself, and "said, Yeah Jensons done the same in the past". Why bring Jenson into it? Show a bit of humility, and say yeah I made a mistake. In this situation he knows he made a mistake, everyone know he made a mistake, yet he cant own up to the mistake, his ego wont allow it. You want us to think this same guy was embarrassed.
Originally Posted by BinaryDad:
“There's a big difference between "do you want to let him pass" and "let him past". One is a question, the other is an order. But I suspect you worded it this way specifically, to suit your point of view.
Ask yourself, would Lewis have let Rosberg past if he was ordered to do do?”
The fact one is an order, and one is a question has nothing to do with it. You are missing the point. If Hamilton was embarrassed, then if asked, he would have let Rosberg pass. But we both know, if asked he would have said no.
I think Hamilton would have let Rosberg passed if ordered to, but not if asked to. If Hamilton was asked, do you think he would have let Rosberg pass?