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Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 8)


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Old 24-05-2015, 19:32
Forza Ferrari
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I had a crap WWF1 "gag" until someone told me the wrestling people no longer use "WWF".

Anyway, F1 credibility is sinking to that of the American racing championships, that call out a safety car if they spot a bit of "debris" on the racing line and it just happens there is no action on the track.
Having watch American racing serious mostly purely from an enertainment point of view the cautions aren't as bad as you think. Further the team know how to work their strategies through all the cautions. If one driver is romping the whole race weekend they normally still win even if a caution comes at the wrong time. One of the best things about it though is that the teams can improve their set up all the way through the race. Somebody having an off weekend at the start of the race can work in to contention and win. It makes the racing good a lot of the time and so don't be to down on that.

The dodgey ones are where somebody throws out their water bottle and causes a caution. But oval racing is the wild west there is a lot worse than that which happens.
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Old 24-05-2015, 19:33
luba
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Everbodies got to be happy when liverpool loose right?
Everyone has to be happy when Stoke City win, not really bothered about Liverpool.
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Old 24-05-2015, 19:56
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http://www.fia.com/news/2015-monaco-...s-conference-0

Q: (Ian Parkes – Autosport) Question for Lewis. First of all, can you gives us just some idea as to how you’re feeling right now. Obviously we see you’re very low, very down but just express in your own words how you’re feeling. And, secondly, when that Safety Car situation unfolded, did you not at all question whether to come in or not? Bearing in mind, regardless of the situation with the tyres, track position is ultimately king in Monaco.

LH:*I can’t really express the way I feel at the moment. So I won’t even attempt to. You rely on the team. I saw a screen, it looked like the team was out and I thought that Nico had pitted. Obviously I couldn’t see the guys behind so I thought the guys behind were pitting. The team said to stay out, I said “these tyres are going to drop in temperature,” and what I was assuming was that these guys would be on Options and I was on the harder tyre. So, they said to pit. Without thinking I came in with full confidence that the others had done the same.
Lewis didn't have nothing to do with this decision.
The team said to stay out initially
Lewis thought he saw Nicco pitting on a screen
Lewis said the tyres were going to go cold
This is from Lewis' s own account of what happened.
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Old 24-05-2015, 20:06
Mythica
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Yip I am sure Senna was supposed to do that to. Hamilton would not be sacked for not doing an interview.

The guys from the past once they weren't going to do something they just wouldn't do it end of.
Does it matter what he did as you'd still find some way to have a go at him. Why not just give it a rest? You don't like the guy, deal with it and move on.

Your even trying to twist what he said. He didn't say he thought he seem Nico pit. He said he thought he seen the team out and thought Nico had pitted. That's a big difference. The team should know like they did initially and told him to stay out. Hamilton was trying to work out what was best based on information he thought could be correct. Doesn't mean he is at fault.
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Old 24-05-2015, 20:43
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Yip it becomes appart Hamilton has become under the impression wrongly that Nicco has pitted. He has Also assumed vettel responded and pitted to. From the position of limited knowledge he's wanted to pit for tyres. The team should really have said no that they didn't have a gap to do so that is there fault. Wanting to pit due to something he thought he saw ona screen is hamiltons fault. I could get the impression Lewis thought back to the time he wwasn't pitted at Monaco.

The straight forward thing would have been for Lewis to have asked if Nicco had pitted. But I am really not sure if that question or answer would be allowed under the team radio / driver coaching rules.
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Old 24-05-2015, 21:02
Mythica
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Yip it becomes appart Hamilton has become under the impression wrongly that Nicco has pitted. He has Also assumed vettel responded and pitted to. From the position of limited knowledge he's wanted to pit for tyres. The team should really have said no that they didn't have a gap to do so that is there fault. Wanting to pit due to something he thought he saw ona screen is hamiltons fault. I could get the impression Lewis thought back to the time he wwasn't pitted at Monaco.

The straight forward thing would have been for Lewis to have asked if Nicco had pitted. But I am really not sure if that question or answer would be allowed under the team radio / driver coaching rules.
Nothing is Hamiltons fault he was trying to understand what was happening. The team are at fault 100% as they knew exactly what was happening. As a driver you don't just sit there quietly ignoring everything you see, you use your brain and go through all te things that might be happening. But please don't let me he in the way of your Hamilton bashing.
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Old 24-05-2015, 21:34
Forza Ferrari
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If hamilton had just listen to what the team said first then he would have stayed out and won thr GP. It is only because he has made wrong assumptions looking at screens that they weny down the root of pitting. Sure the team should have told him there wasn't a gap behind him but by his own admission hamilton has made mistakes about where the other cars were.

Mercedes didn't get on the radio to hamilton and just tell him to pit for their own crazy reason. It was Hamilton's idea to pit and mercedes made a mistake not evaluating there was not a gap.
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Old 24-05-2015, 23:24
TheToonArmy
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*&^%$Ł"" Racist *&^%$Ł""
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Old 24-05-2015, 23:26
Si_Crewe
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http://www.fia.com/news/2015-monaco-...s-conference-0



Lewis didn't have nothing to do with this decision.
The team said to stay out initially
Lewis thought he saw Nicco pitting on a screen
Lewis said the tyres were going to go cold
This is from Lewis' s own account of what happened.
You seem to have misunderstood the comment you quoted.

What Hamilton said was that he saw a screen which showed that the mechanics were out in the pit-lane and assumed that was for Rosberg - which would surely imply that he had no intention of going into the pits.

I guess Hamilton figured that the team planned to bring Rosberg in on the basis that all those engineers, and their computers, had calculated that a new set of options would have a useful advantage over an old, cold, set of primes and that all the main contenders, behind him, were planning to do the same thing so track position would remain unchanged.

*EDIT*

Also, I gotta say, I'm loving the way you started off saying Hamilton was being an arse for being reluctant to participate in the podium ceremony, then he was being an arse for acting in a mature manner when you would have preferred it if he'd thrown a tantrum and now, finally, he's being an arse for not throwing a tantrum like Senna did.

I'm not really seeing any possibly scenario where you wouldn't be critical of Hamilton.
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Old 24-05-2015, 23:48
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If hamilton had just listen to what the team said first then he would have stayed out and won thr GP. It is only because he has made wrong assumptions looking at screens that they weny down the root of pitting. Sure the team should have told him there wasn't a gap behind him but by his own admission hamilton has made mistakes about where the other cars were.

Mercedes didn't get on the radio to hamilton and just tell him to pit for their own crazy reason. It was Hamilton's idea to pit and mercedes made a mistake not evaluating there was not a gap.
Have you heard the radio then where Hamilton made the call and not the team??
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Old 25-05-2015, 03:26
Smufter
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The problem is today F1 drivers don't actually have the strength of character to do that sort of thing.
I've got to admit that I did have a little chuckle to myself when Lewis knocked over the p3 sign at the end.
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Old 25-05-2015, 08:04
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You seem to have misunderstood the comment you quoted.

What Hamilton said was that he saw a screen which showed that the mechanics were out in the pit-lane and assumed that was for Rosberg - which would surely imply that he had no intention of going into the pits.

I guess Hamilton figured that the team planned to bring Rosberg in on the basis that all those engineers, and their computers, had calculated that a new set of options would have a useful advantage over an old, cold, set of primes and that all the main contenders, behind him, were planning to do the same thing so track position would remain unchanged.

*EDIT*

Also, I gotta say, I'm loving the way you started off saying Hamilton was being an arse for being reluctant to participate in the podium ceremony, then he was being an arse for acting in a mature manner when you would have preferred it if he'd thrown a tantrum and now, finally, he's being an arse for not throwing a tantrum like Senna did.

I'm not really seeing any possibly scenario where you wouldn't be critical of Hamilton.
I quite understand what hamilton has said. His incorrect assumption that rosberg had pitted is the very point where the whole idea of pitting hamilton came to inception. So yes up to that point hamilton dosen't intend to pit. Once hamilton thinks he has seen that Rosberg has stopped already starts hamilton panicing about his tyres being cold and oyhers having fresh tyres. He also thinks rosberg and vettel have pitted creating a gap. It a shame all of this is wrong because it means when hamilton discusses pitting with the team instead of not being sure about it.

As for the tantrum not tantrum issue. I recall one time somebody was blocked in quali and they went down to the other drivers garage and stared at them Martin brundel said he would have had a lot more respect for the guy if he had stepped on the other drivers front wing instead of just standing there. Thats my point about F1 drivers today. They aren't capable of doing something they are not supposed to. They are like teenagers don't wantto do what mum and dad say but not grown up enough to do their own thing. This I

is a general comment on all drivers BTW.

As for a situation I wouldn't criticise hamilton yesterday it would have been the scenario where he didn't pit and won the race. Not the one were he participated in one of the biggest strategy errors ever.

But never mind he will still easily win the WDC. Perhapes for the next three years.
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Old 25-05-2015, 08:08
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I've got to admit that I did have a little chuckle to myself when Lewis knocked over the p3 sign at the end.
Being fair to him at first I thought that could have been the terrible front left brake problem he had. But then when it took 30s for him to raise his are and remove the cockpit surround it was obviously part of the tantrum.

Alright Alright I'll go to the podium man.

Just imagine how happy Fernando Alonso would be with just one third place this year.
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Old 25-05-2015, 08:26
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http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2015/05/2...-him-victory/?

Why did Mercedes do it? Clearly they thought they saw an opportunity to gain an advantage at no cost. They were also relying on input from Hamilton about the state of his tyres. Tellingly, in the press conference he revealed he had been keeping an eye on developments on the track side video walls and had formed a mistaken impression that Rosberg and Vettel had already switched to the super-soft tyres.

“I saw a screen, it looked like the team was out and I thought that Nico had pitted,” said Hamilton. “Obviously I couldn’t see the guys behind so I thought the guys behind were pitting.”

“The team said to stay out, I said ‘these tyres are going to drop in temperature,’ and what I was assuming was that these guys would be on [super-soft] and I was on the harder tyre.”

“So they said to pit. Without thinking I came in with full confidence that the others had done the same.”

As Mercedes being the post-mortem on this one they will surely find more than one way their strategic game needs to be sharpened up.
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Old 25-05-2015, 09:04
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An observation I made at the weekend is that teams should not be allowed to do a 5s penalty before they service the car.

The reason being that by taking the penalty first it simplifies the stop for the team. When they move in to the car to change the tyres it is completely stationary so it is easier than reacting to a car coming to a hault.

The time defference will normally be marginal 0.1 or something. If you consider though that it might save them from making a mistake then it could save a handful of seconds and there should not be a benifit to taking a penalty.

Although Alonso was unlucky to get the penalty he got if it was intended as a penalty it didn't really affect his race.
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Old 25-05-2015, 10:19
jmclaugh
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It would appear Rosberg's mum is in charge of strategy at Mercedes as what should have been a 27 point lead for Hamilton became 10.

The stewards didn't have a stalwart day either, a penalty for Alonso yet none for Ricciardo or indeed Verstappen who having made some clever passes by following Vettel through under blue flags then lost the plot and caused not a collison but a serious accident.
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Old 25-05-2015, 10:37
Si_Crewe
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I quite understand what hamilton has said. His incorrect assumption that rosberg had pitted is the very point where the whole idea of pitting hamilton came to inception. So yes up to that point hamilton dosen't intend to pit. Once hamilton thinks he has seen that Rosberg has stopped already starts hamilton panicing about his tyres being cold and oyhers having fresh tyres. He also thinks rosberg and vettel have pitted creating a gap. It a shame all of this is wrong because it means when hamilton discusses pitting with the team instead of not being sure about it.
You're still missing the point.

The Merc' mechanics didn't just suddenly decide to go and stand out in the pit lane for no reason, thus allowing Hamilton to see them on a screen somewhere.

They MUST have got out to the pit-lane for a reason and, when that happened, Hamilton had no idea what that might be for.

The only possible conclusion is that Hamilton had nothing to do with provoking the decision to pit.
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Old 25-05-2015, 11:33
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Mercedes made three mistakes.
1. Thinking Ferrari were going to pit, even though there was no indication from the Ferrari garage that they were going to (would Vettel not have lost track position to Kvyat?).
2. Thinking that even if Ferrari had pitted Vettel that they would need to as well (surely it was Rosberg most at risk if Vettel had pitted anyway?).
3. Thinking they had enough time to pit Hamilton.

None of those mistakes had anything to do with Hamilton's call to the pits to say his tyres were cold. Hamilton agreed to pit because he assumed Vettel & Rosberg had also pitted. He assumed that because he saw the Mercedes crew out and knowing he had no intention at that time to pit, assumed they were out for Rosberg, which could only mean Vettel had also pitted. It was the only logical conclusion but was wrong because Mercedes hadn't been logical.

The result won't make the slightest difference to the championship. Rosberg knows he was well beaten this weekend. The team know they cocked up royally and will likely favour Hamilton now as compensation. Ironically this was exactly what was needed for the season. A bit of controversy to get F1 back in the headlines, keeps the title alive for a bit longer.
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Old 25-05-2015, 11:46
Forza Ferrari
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There is a safety car so they walk out in to the pit lane just incase. As hamilton is leading the race wouldn't mercedes procedure be to give hamilton first call on stopping. Did a bit of paranoia creep in to hamiltons mind about nicco being pitted and not him. He also has to assume for nicco to be pitting vettel is to. A nicco pit stop makes no sense at all with out a vettel one they were much closer.

That is even assuming it was the mercedes mechanics he saw on the screen. Sitting in the cock pit moving past a screen it could have been any other team with light overals.

Wither lewis saw mercedes mechanics or not from there he still makes further wrong assumptions. Why not ask why the mechanics are out? Plus he introduces the idea of the tyres going bad.

Reading James Allen online he states Lewis took part in the decision. Also though from what he says about hamiltons sector times the mercedes mistake sounds even worse. You have to wonder how they made it. It must have been some sort of group think error or other psychological effect at play. We misscalculated just doesn't explain it all.
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Old 25-05-2015, 12:06
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Here's a wacky thought....

What if Rosberg provoked it all deliberately?

Half way through the lap he could have called in to the garage and said he wanted to pit for options cos he was certain they'd give him a big advantage at the restart.
This would have caused chaos in the Merc' garage because Hamilton, 20 seconds further up the track, would have had the first choice so the garage would have had to consider whether it was actually a good idea, send their mechanics out for whichever driver pitted, get on the radio, offer Hamilton the choice and he'd have had to make the decision within a few seconds, before he reached the pit-entry.

If Hamilton pits, Rosberg takes the lead. If he doesn't then Rosberg can just "change his mind" and retain 2nd place.

All very unlikely, of course, but I thought I'd put it out there in case Hamilton comes out with another "Rosberg admitted he done it deliberately!" bombshell later on.
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Old 25-05-2015, 12:21
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Well I don't think there is much room for many conspiracy theories but part of me dose wonder if the Rosberg side of the garage thought it would be unfair to Rosberg not to let hamilton have his own way on pitting. All the people on the timing wall totto lauder etc should not be prone to that.
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Old 25-05-2015, 15:23
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Well I don't think there is much room for many conspiracy theories but part of me dose wonder if the Rosberg side of the garage thought it would be unfair to Rosberg not to let hamilton have his own way on pitting. All the people on the timing wall totto lauder etc should not be prone to that.
For someone who apparently loves F1, you don't half make a lot of errors in your posts.
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Old 25-05-2015, 15:57
natalian
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There is a safety car so they walk out in to the pit lane just incase. As hamilton is leading the race wouldn't mercedes procedure be to give hamilton first call on stopping. Did a bit of paranoia creep in to hamiltons mind about nicco being pitted and not him. He also has to assume for nicco to be pitting vettel is to. A nicco pit stop makes no sense at all with out a vettel one they were much closer.

That is even assuming it was the mercedes mechanics he saw on the screen. Sitting in the cock pit moving past a screen it could have been any other team with light overals.

Wither lewis saw mercedes mechanics or not from there he still makes further wrong assumptions. Why not ask why the mechanics are out? Plus he introduces the idea of the tyres going bad.

Reading James Allen online he states Lewis took part in the decision. Also though from what he says about hamiltons sector times the mercedes mistake sounds even worse. You have to wonder how they made it. It must have been some sort of group think error or other psychological effect at play. We misscalculated just doesn't explain it all.
All of which is totally irrelevant. Mercedes told Hamilton that his lead was sufficient for him to pit and rejoin in the lead. They were wrong and that is the mistake that cost him the race. That miscalculation has nothing to do with Hamilton.

As for him being a bit pissed off at losing the race, I can't say I blame him as I would be too.
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Old 25-05-2015, 16:56
Forza Ferrari
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http://thejudge13.com/2015/05/24/ham...own-downfall/?

Just a quick warning guys don't read this article whatever you do it isn't a weeping tribute to hamilton's lost race makes a reasoned analysis and even tries to put it all in to perspective.

Likely going to upset a lot of people.
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Old 25-05-2015, 18:57
dansus
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Feel sorry for Hamilton but if he was a better communicator, he would have simply asked if the other drivers had pitted rather than assuming. Team told him to stay put for a reason.

Good overview of what happened.
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/an...-so-very-wrong
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