• TV
  • MOVIES
  • MUSIC
  • SHOWBIZ
  • SOAPS
  • GAMING
  • TECH
  • FORUMS
  • Follow
    • Follow
    • facebook
    • twitter
    • google+
    • instagram
    • youtube
Hearst Corporation
  • TV
  • MOVIES
  • MUSIC
  • SHOWBIZ
  • SOAPS
  • GAMING
  • TECH
  • FORUMS
Forums
  • Register
  • Login
  • Forums
  • Entertainment
  • Sport
Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 8)
<<
<
293 of 390
>>
>
natalian
07-06-2015
Originally Posted by maycontainnuts:
“does anyone care about who has the best fuel economy in the race?.One of the many regs that are killing F1”

What I care about is who can get from the start to the finish in the fastest possible time with a level playing field for all. Therefore, I don't believe that anyone should be forced to save fuel and I fully support the idea of bringing back refuelling. Then again, I don't see any reason why they should be limited in tyres or forced to use different compounds when one of them has been specifically designed to disintegrate. That said, I don't support DRS unless it can be used by everyone at all times. Designing the car so that it can reduce drag is part of car design. Why should the lead car be disadvantaged by the car behind being given an unfair advantage.
ganal
08-06-2015
Originally Posted by Forza Ferrari:
““I didn’t agree that the first part of the race was the part of the race where we needed to save fuel. In the end, we didn’t even need to save fuel as we didn’t finish the race.”

Unrelated exhaust problems caused the double DNF for Mclaren today. They appear to be getting more problems as they use more of the potential of the engine.

Would be a great team radio message we need to fuel save but don't bother with lift and coast as we won't finish anyway. Seriously Alonso has a point with their record try and do 75% of the race before they think about needing enough fuel.

Some great post race comments from Alonso.”

Mclaren seem to be going nowhere fast even the drivers cant now put on a brave face it must be time for some drastic action anyone got Ross Brawns mobile number
Smufter
08-06-2015
Originally Posted by maycontainnuts:
“does anyone care about who has the best fuel economy in the race?.One of the many regs that are killing F1”

Oh dear. I fell asleep 5 or 6 laps in, and I didn't even curse myself for doing it when i finally woke up last night.
For years, friends of mine have been saying "don't know what you see in F1, it's boring".
I think it's finally dawned on me...... it is.
Action replays of pit stops, and umpteen slo mo's of cars riding over kerbing......
racing it ain't.
Forza Ferrari
08-06-2015
Originally Posted by Smufter:
“Oh dear. I fell asleep 5 or 6 laps in, and I didn't even curse myself for doing it when i finally woke up last night.
For years, friends of mine have been saying "don't know what you see in F1, it's boring".
I think it's finally dawned on me...... it is.
Action replays of pit stops, and umpteen slo mo's of cars riding over kerbing......
racing it ain't.
”

Yeah that is one of the worst things it isn't possible to defend F1 anymore. That sinking revelation that it has become this bad. There is to much wrong at the moment as well for it to change any time soon.

The regulation change in 2017 won't help much either. If you are McLaren Honda trying to get your current engine and areo to work together for 2016 there is little point when it is to all go in the bin for 2017 anyway. So they may as well give up on 2016 now.

Then when the regs do change unless there are some personnel changes etc the likelihood is the people that did the best job of working to the current regs will still be the best under the new regs.

Even if it is a different team winning in 2017 it will likely just be a different team dominating and no less boring.
jmclaugh
08-06-2015
Easy win for Hamilton in an uneventful race with very little to get excited about, Alonso's comments on being told to save fuel was probably the highlight and McLaren are in a sorry state.
gulliverfoyle
08-06-2015
I think drastic action is needed fast

1 Remove the fuel restrictions so they can run maximum power ALL the time, this whole fuel management/lift and coast business is tedious, let them race flat out

2 remove the whole engine tokens business just let them develop as fast as they can but keep the number of engines a year limited to 5?
Forza Ferrari
08-06-2015
Well all the cars will have a 100kg tank max. I doubt they can get anymore fuel on board without redesigning the cars. Perhapes they should lift some ERS restrictions which would in effect give more fuel.

Agreed the engine tokens and development freeze should go. It has been a farce any mercedes introduced an upgrade at Canada on the grounds of reliability eh? Were the FIA not inclinded to point out to them that both their cars did the first six races on on engine anf the question what reliability issue?
skinj
08-06-2015
Originally Posted by Smufter:
“Oh dear. I fell asleep 5 or 6 laps in, and I didn't even curse myself for doing it when i finally woke up last night.
For years, friends of mine have been saying "don't know what you see in F1, it's boring".
I think it's finally dawned on me...... it is.
Action replays of pit stops, and umpteen slo mo's of cars riding over kerbing......
racing it ain't.
”

Someone asked me today if I watched Bradley Wiggins record attempt on Sky. My answer was fairly quick and sharp "No!, Why would I want to watch that guy just go round and round for an hour with nothing interesting happening."

Then it dawned on me what I had done on Sunday evening..........
Last edited by skinj : 08-06-2015 at 18:55
skinj
08-06-2015
Originally Posted by Forza Ferrari:
“Well all the cars will have a 100kg tank max. I doubt they can get anymore fuel on board without redesigning the cars. Perhapes they should lift some ERS restrictions which would in effect give more fuel.

Agreed the engine tokens and development freeze should go. It has been a farce any mercedes introduced an upgrade at Canada on the grounds of reliability eh? Were the FIA not inclinded to point out to them that both their cars did the first six races on on engine anf the question what reliability issue?”

Interesting question. My view would be that if Merc are able to show that their engine is working at 85% full power, but cannot use 100% because non-power producing components would fail, I think that it is justifiable.
Just like on a road car you can put better tyres on and go round corners faster and claim that this is a safety issue rather than a speed issue.
Either way, F1 should be about pushing the envelope of mechanical design. If any engine manufacturer can find a way of making an engine more reliable/powerful whilst using almost all the same components then they should be allowed to. A couple of years down the line this will appear on consumer engines & cars to the benefit of all.
Forza Ferrari
08-06-2015
Originally Posted by skinj:
“Interesting question. My view would be that if Merc are able to show that their engine is working at 85% full power, but cannot use 100% because non-power producing components would fail, I think that it is justifiable.”

That becomes a bit of a funny numbers game then. How would the FIA know the difference between Mercedes claiming their engine is at 85% of normal or that the normal Mercedes is claiming is really 115% of normal.

I don't mind that Mercedes did an upgrade. I was quite sure they would still be ahead by just putting new engines in and changing a setting.

It is this foolish developing not developing process which is broken.

Of course if the teams were allowed to push development they can only do so a certain amount because of the four engine rule.

Instead of having a limited number of engines they should let the teams use as many engines as they want one at a time. Evertime you change an engine the the max RPM limit you can use is reduced by a certain amount. So instead of sporting penalties for failures you have performance advantages for engine longevity.
Assa2
09-06-2015
F1 isn't broken, it's people's attitudes that have changed. We've become all too used to instant gratification, to 5 second memes and sound bites, to staged or contrived 'drama'. To some people a 4hr, 5 set blockbuster at Wimbledon is tedious. To others a 0-0 draw in football is utterly boring. Sometimes they're absolutely right but you get that in sport. Personally I quite enjoyed the last GP. Just because the front 2 managed the race perfectly (and there's a sort of enjoyment in watching that) doesn't mean there wasn't lots of good, close racing behind. F1 is a sport first and foremost and losing sight of that will be it's doom.

All the changes people are talking about, stickier tyres, unrestricted engine development, return of re-fueling, customer cars etc... won't make the slightest difference. There is always a pecking order in terms of performance along the grid and races are 95% of the time a foregone conclusion once qualifying is over. The modern qualifying format ensures a consistent grid with only a few exceptions (Massa & Vettel). People talk about the past with rose-tinted glasses. Yes, it was more exciting. It was also dangerous & unreliable (which is where most of the excitement came from). It was comparatively unrestricted but also open to massive abuse. There were a lot of cheats back in the day. Do people really want to go back to that because it was more entertaining?

I despise the constant use of the words 'entertainment' and 'the show' in terms of a sport. You want that? Go and watch WWE. Leave F1 to the grown ups.
dee_eff
09-06-2015
Originally Posted by Assa2:
“F1 isn't broken, it's people's attitudes that have changed.
(and everything up to and including)
Leave F1 to the grown ups.”

Well said, that man.
afcbfan
09-06-2015
Originally Posted by Assa2:
“
All the changes people are talking about, stickier tyres, unrestricted engine development, return of re-fueling, customer cars etc... won't make the slightest difference.”

Absolutely. F1's problem is that the faster you are the more of a headstart you're given. Until those in charge realise that then they can come up with all the technical changes they like and it won't make a blind bit of difference.

Originally Posted by Patrick Head:
“ If you line the cars up with the fastest at the front and the slowest at the back, why should there be any overtaking?”

Scuderia92
09-06-2015
I think everyone needs to understand that not every race is going to be amazing and spoken of forever and ever. Plenty of Football matches end in a draw but you dont hear people calling out for more goal nets to be put on the pitch!
Assa2
09-06-2015
Originally Posted by Scuderia92:
“I think everyone needs to understand that not every race is going to be amazing and spoken of forever and ever. Plenty of Football matches end in a draw but you dont hear people calling out for more goal nets to be put on the pitch!”

This was always what was 'assumed' to be the reason why football wasn't big in the US. Strangely, now it's huge - Americans adapted and learned to love the sport, not the other way round.

The money men in F1 worry about 'the show'. They talk about bums on seats and viewing figures as if that's a measure of a sports success. It isn't. You measure a business' success by the profit it makes, not a sport. F1 would still be F1 without the global audience, the 20 races a year, the manufacturers. Private teams would be operating at a fraction of the budget of the current teams and going just as quickly no doubt. Bernie doesn't care how close the racing is or how many cars there are on the grid. He doesn't even care how many people attend each GP or watch on TV. All he cares about is how much money the sport makes and anything that effects his bottom line becomes a concern. And because he cares everyone else in the sport is forced to care too. He may have saved F1 in the 70's & 80's but he's not done much else than milk it ever since. The sport will live on much longer than him and be all the better without the meddling he constantly forces on it.
bspace
09-06-2015
Originally Posted by Assa2:
“F1 isn't broken, it's people's attitudes that have changed. We've become all too used to instant gratification, to 5 second memes and sound bites, to staged or contrived 'drama'. ....snip”

Whilst I agree up to a point I'd still rather see cars being driven as hard as they can be and not restricted by artificial fuel and tyre management as they are now. Alonso, Hamilton et al seem to agree with that.

Reasonable article by Coultard about it here http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/33060280
Forza Ferrari
09-06-2015
Originally Posted by Scuderia92:
“I think everyone needs to understand that not every race is going to be amazing and spoken of forever and ever. Plenty of Football matches end in a draw but you dont hear people calling out for more goal nets to be put on the pitch!”

Well I don't think the problem is that not ever race has been a classic. There haven't even been any good races this year.

How often do you hear fans of other sports saying a particular event was absolutely auwful. Even if their team isn't taking part they normally find some to enjoy.

This 'sport' has gotten to the point that the fans of it are finding it dross.

The current state of F1 needs to be addressed we can all be assured that nothing will get better by people putting their heads in the sand and saying everything is fine.
DanielF
09-06-2015
Originally Posted by Forza Ferrari:
“Well I don't think the problem is that not ever race has been a classic. There haven't even been any good races this year.

How often do you hear fans of other sports saying a particular event was absolutely auwful. Even if their team isn't taking part they normally find some to enjoy.

This 'sport' has gotten to the point that the fans of it are finding it dross.

The current state of F1 needs to be addressed we can all be assured that nothing will get better by people putting their heads in the sand and saying everything is fine.”

So you know what all the fans are thinking?
Forza Ferrari
09-06-2015
Originally Posted by DanielF:
“So you know what all the fans are thinking?”

I am sure there are a variety of opinions across F1 fans although I don't hear many saying that was a great race, looking forward to the next one and speculating about what might happen next.
Scuderia92
09-06-2015
Originally Posted by Forza Ferrari:
“Well I don't think the problem is that not ever race has been a classic. There haven't even been any good races this year.

How often do you hear fans of other sports saying a particular event was absolutely auwful. Even if their team isn't taking part they normally find some to enjoy.

This 'sport' has gotten to the point that the fans of it are finding it dross.

The current state of F1 needs to be addressed we can all be assured that nothing will get better by people putting their heads in the sand and saying everything is fine.”

I would have thought you would have loved Malaysia. It was a classic for me!
Forza Ferrari
09-06-2015
http://formulaspy.com/formula-1/form...xciting-14968?

Originally Posted by Scuderia92:
“I would have thought you would have loved Malaysia. It was a classic for me!”

You know I would have enjoyed it more if Mercedes hadn't played right in to our hands handing over the lead and the cobbled their selfs further by using the slow tyre twice. I kind of felt like a hollow win.

The link is what Kimi thinks Alonso quoted there too. Mark Webber had a lot to say recently the main thrust of what he had to say was most people in F1 are unhappy with it but they aren't really allowed to say it.
Assa2
09-06-2015
Originally Posted by Forza Ferrari:
“Well I don't think the problem is that not ever race has been a classic. There haven't even been any good races this year.

How often do you hear fans of other sports saying a particular event was absolutely auwful. Even if their team isn't taking part they normally find some to enjoy.

This 'sport' has gotten to the point that the fans of it are finding it dross.

The current state of F1 needs to be addressed we can all be assured that nothing will get better by people putting their heads in the sand and saying everything is fine.”

This season's PL has been dire. I don't hold out much hope for next season. Before the last WC in 2014 there hadn't been a really good one for 20 years. Utd dominated the domestic game for 20 years and Liverpool before that. That doesn't mean football is broken.

We had cars that drove flat out between fuel stops on tyres that barely wore a few years ago and it was the most tedious period on F1 I can recall... but I still watched because F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport and I get a buzz watching the best drivers drive the fastest cars irrelevant of the number of on-track passes or who is winning how many races. If I want thrills and spills I'll watch a film or better still go down to the local track and watch some stock cars and bangers.

As far as I'm concerned F1 is a marathon, not as sprint. It's about team competing against team across a season and sometimes across years, fighting to out develop each other and produce for a fleeting moment the best car possible, until someone else goes a bit better. GPs are usually won based on strategy across an entire weekend rather than a single piece of inspired driving on the Sunday, although that's great when it happens too.

Mercedes won't be dominant for ever. Ferrari are catching up and while it might not look like it now, McLaren will get there eventually. Maybe someone new like Audi will come along and shake it up. The sport doesn't need fixing. Hamilton is on his way to becoming the biggest star the sport has had since Senna, perhaps even bigger. Beyond him there are a host of great drivers ready to take titles over the next decade. We've had some classic seasons over the last few years and some dull-fests. The future will be the same. It doesn't need shaking up.
Forza Ferrari
09-06-2015
The overal endeavour may be a marathon fair enough. But the racing should be a sprint not a jog and I think that needs correcting.

Honda are having a struggle we should judge them on next year. I do worry they might be dreaming the impossible dream again.
mattlamb
10-06-2015
Originally Posted by Assa2:
“This season's PL has been dire. I don't hold out much hope for next season. Before the last WC in 2014 there hadn't been a really good one for 20 years. Utd dominated the domestic game for 20 years and Liverpool before that. That doesn't mean football is broken.

We had cars that drove flat out between fuel stops on tyres that barely wore a few years ago and it was the most tedious period on F1 I can recall... but I still watched because F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport and I get a buzz watching the best drivers drive the fastest cars irrelevant of the number of on-track passes or who is winning how many races. If I want thrills and spills I'll watch a film or better still go down to the local track and watch some stock cars and bangers.

As far as I'm concerned F1 is a marathon, not as sprint. It's about team competing against team across a season and sometimes across years, fighting to out develop each other and produce for a fleeting moment the best car possible, until someone else goes a bit better. GPs are usually won based on strategy across an entire weekend rather than a single piece of inspired driving on the Sunday, although that's great when it happens too.

Mercedes won't be dominant for ever. Ferrari are catching up and while it might not look like it now, McLaren will get there eventually. Maybe someone new like Audi will come along and shake it up. The sport doesn't need fixing. Hamilton is on his way to becoming the biggest star the sport has had since Senna, perhaps even bigger. Beyond him there are a host of great drivers ready to take titles over the next decade. We've had some classic seasons over the last few years and some dull-fests. The future will be the same. It doesn't need shaking up.”


Soft tyres should not be able to last for 50 odd laps on a track that has traditionally been heavy on tyres.

Mind you, I think the problem may be fuel and engine linked. Either the fuel tank is not large enough, or the engines (don't get me started on them) are too thirsty. This means that even if cars went onto fresher tyres, they couldn't make the most of their pace for fear of running out of fuel.

Mercedes aren't helping things as they do not seem to be allowing their two drivers to race each other.
mattlamb
10-06-2015
I think there are two main problems - the need for f1 to be seen to be 'green' and information overload.

I propose to:
Allow unlimited use of tyres with big differences in tyre compounds. Drivers should not have to start the race on the same tyres (or tyre compound) that they qualified on and if they want to try to run the whole race without making a pitstop, then that should be allowed. Tyre companies should be made to bring all the tyre compounds available during the year to each race meeting.

Get rid of hybrid engines. They're crap. The lack of noise on it's own is enough reason for getting rid. They just don't sound spectacular.

Ban the use of telemetry. Drivers should have to rely on their own race craft in judging how much they can push at any time in the race. Just allow teams to use pitside-boards. I would also go back to proper gearboxes, and get rid of other driver aids too.

When drivers are out on the track, the sport should be more about their ability. Teams wou!LD still have a big part to play in car development.
<<
<
293 of 390
>>
>
VIEW DESKTOP SITE TOP

JOIN US HERE

  • Facebook
  • Twitter

Hearst Corporation

Hearst Corporation

DIGITAL SPY, PART OF THE HEARST UK ENTERTAINMENT NETWORK

© 2015 Hearst Magazines UK is the trading name of the National Magazine Company Ltd, 72 Broadwick Street, London, W1F 9EP. Registered in England 112955. All rights reserved.

  • Terms & Conditions
  • Privacy Policy
  • Cookie Policy
  • Complaints
  • Site Map