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Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 8)


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Old 29-11-2012, 03:01
Kierenj
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Ferrari... the Chelsea of F1...
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Old 29-11-2012, 10:06
lakes
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sky have used other drivers car cams to show that he did overtake during a yellow flag,
he has broken the rules and should pay for that. shocked it was not picked up during the race.
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Old 29-11-2012, 10:14
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http://i46.tinypic.com/2ecdy81.jpg
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Old 29-11-2012, 10:31
jmclaugh
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More on Ferrari and a possible protest is below. The footage is of a different incident to the one in the picture posted above and both suggest there is something to at least investigate as F1 does make retrospective decisions about what happened in a race.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20531638
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Old 29-11-2012, 10:51
ACU
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sky have used other drivers car cams to show that he did overtake during a yellow flag,
he has broken the rules and should pay for that. shocked it was not picked up during the race.
This incident, where Vettel overtakes Kobayashi has been discussed here. That overtake was under a yellow and red flag. Not a yellow flag. Ferrari accept this as a legal overtake.
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Old 29-11-2012, 11:01
lakes
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More on Ferrari and a possible protest is below. The footage is of a different incident to the one in the picture posted above and both suggest there is something to at least investigate as F1 does make retrospective decisions about what happened in a race.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20531638
bbc are still reporting that Ferrari are thinking of a protest, Sky seems to think they have put in one.
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Old 29-11-2012, 11:02
R410
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sky have used other drivers car cams to show that he did overtake during a yellow flag,
he has broken the rules and should pay for that. shocked it was not picked up during the race.
They were not yellow flags, they were red and orange flags warning the drivers that the track is slippery.
That overtake was entirely legal.

__
Screenshots are now available that show a green flag:
http://www.imagebam.com/image/e49aa0223107684
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Old 29-11-2012, 11:13
kendoguk
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Nah it's clear as day that he overtook in the yellow zone. The pass was made before he went past the green light.
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Old 29-11-2012, 11:16
ACU
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Its not as simple as did he overtake under a yellow flag or not. If Vergne slowed down, then Vettel is permitted to overtake under yellows. The FIA would also have to look at Vergnes telemetry to make a judgement.

The other issue here, that RB would say, is that if the stewards missed then tough. It happened very early in the race, so they had plenty of time to issue a penalty. Also I think there is a limit on when the stewards have to declare that they will investigate an incident, 10 laps? If after the limit has passed, then the incident can not be investigated.

RB will argue, that if the stewards saw the incident, and Vettel took the penalty during the race, he could have driven harder, to overtake the next car, to get back into the 6th place he needed. Webber was also infront of Vettel, they would have asked Webber to drop back behind Vettel, which would also have given him the 6th place.

Ferrari have until tomorrow to lodge any complaint, I hope they dont. Its not fair to punish RB, for the stewards mistake.
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Old 29-11-2012, 11:38
Si_Crewe
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Nah it's clear as day that he overtook in the yellow zone. The pass was made before he went past the green light.
Have you not read any of the stuff about the green flag being waved prior to the green light?

Screenshots are now available that show a green flag:
http://www.imagebam.com/image/e49aa0223107684
That's great news if it can be verified that it was taken on the correct lap.

Although I would rather Alonso had won the championship, the time to do it was last Sunday and this kind of nonsense just brings the sport into disrepute.

Also, comments from Alonso such as "I don't rely on luck, I rely on the correct rules to win" don't do much for my opinion of him.
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Old 29-11-2012, 11:47
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Yep I have I never once said the result should be changed though.
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Old 29-11-2012, 12:02
zieler
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That's great news if it can be verified that it was taken on the correct lap.

Although I would rather Alonso had won the championship, the time to do it was last Sunday and this kind of nonsense just brings the sport into disrepute.

Also, comments from Alonso such as "I don't rely on luck, I rely on the correct rules to win" don't do much for my opinion of him.
That screenshot is on lap 3, the overtake of Vergne is on lap 4.

I agree, I wanted Alonso to win but certainly not like this. This sort of thing just makes F1 look ridiculous.

On the plus side, if the FIA find in favour of Vettel, we should get rid of the theories about Ferrari International Assistance...
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Old 29-11-2012, 12:18
indiana44
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They were not yellow flags, they were red and orange flags warning the drivers that the track is slippery.
That overtake was entirely legal.

__
Screenshots are now available that show a green flag:
http://www.imagebam.com/image/e49aa0223107684
That screenshot also shows lap 3/71. I understood the incident was on lap 4, though was there anything in between that would have possibly changed the green at that point into a yellow

Whatever, it would be quite ridiculous for Vettel to be in any danger of being pushed back, because even if it was a yellow it is surely for the stewards to pick up, especially such an early incident, in the race and give say a drive through penalty during the race, giving Vettel a chance to recover the places he needed rather than being knocked back places at the end when he was driving behind the safety car. I see that a 20 second penalty drops him back just behind Vergne into 8th and then overall 1 point behind Alonso, hmm.

Indeed, I see ACU suggests above that there is a limited period in which the stewards have to say they are investigating an incident. That would make sense.

This should be kicked into touch. Vettel is the champion.
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Old 29-11-2012, 12:23
Pendragon579
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/for...=feeds-newsxml

See what Charlie Whiting says in the above article

Looks done and dusted to me [but remembers James Hunt losing the British Grand Prix in 1976 a couple of months after the event ]
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Old 29-11-2012, 12:26
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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104645

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Old 29-11-2012, 12:28
ACU
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See what Charlie Whiting says in the above article

Looks done and dusted to me [but remembers James Hunt losing the British Grand Prix in 1976 a couple of months after the event ]
The BBC are also saying the same thing. So thats the end of the matter then.
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Old 29-11-2012, 12:28
Pendragon579
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The wheel turns does it not?
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Old 29-11-2012, 12:31
R410
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That screenshot is on lap 3, the overtake of Vergne is on lap 4.

I agree, I wanted Alonso to win but certainly not like this. This sort of thing just makes F1 look ridiculous.

On the plus side, if the FIA find in favour of Vettel, we should get rid of the theories about Ferrari International Assistance...
It may be of lap 3 but it shows that the marshall was waving a green flag clearly.
One thing for certain is that marshall was not waving a yellow flag on lap 4.
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Old 29-11-2012, 12:31
Pendragon579
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The BBC are also saying the same thing. So thats the end of the matter then.
Should be
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Old 29-11-2012, 12:33
R410
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Nah it's clear as day that he overtook in the yellow zone. The pass was made before he went past the green light.
It doesn't matter if he had passed that green light, if he had passed a marshall waving a green flag he could overtake.
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Old 29-11-2012, 12:34
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You can bet that bitter Ferrari fans will still complain about it though.
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Old 29-11-2012, 12:36
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"According to high level FIA sources, the light panel that was showing yellow for Pastor Maldonado's stricken Williams was shown 100 metres before the next marshal post, which was located near the exit of the pitlane.

At this marshal's post a green flag was being waved on lap four - at the same time as the light signal at Turn Four was displaying green.

The separation of these two posts was about 350 metres and FIA race director Charlie Whiting has made it clear to drivers since lights were introduced more than five years ago that when there are consecutive signals from both a flag and a light, it is the first one that counts."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104645
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Old 29-11-2012, 12:43
Pendragon579
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You can bet that bitter Ferrari fans will still complain about it though.
Indeed. What I would like to see is Ferrari retrospectively disqualified from the results of the US Grand Prix for acts 'contrary to the image of the sport' i.e. breaking driver number 2 Massa's gearbox seals [which they freely admitted doing] to thus give him a grid penalty and therefore move Alonso up [to the clean side of] the grid a bit at the same time.

http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/16058.html
Compare this to Moss speaking up for his rival Hawthorn in 1958, an act which ultimately cost Moss the title. I think aftewards Moss commented that if he had said nothing and thus won the World Championship it would have cheapened and tarnished the whole thing.

Things have changed and ultimately not for the better - today F1 is more of a business than a sport

Last edited by Pendragon579 : 29-11-2012 at 12:47. Reason: spelling
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Old 29-11-2012, 12:43
indiana44
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Yes, sincerly hope so, but not because of anything the BBC are saying

What appears to clinch it is that the stewards are entirely satisfied that the flag at the exit of the pitlane was green.
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Old 29-11-2012, 12:44
Assa2
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Surely they can verify if there was a green flag on Lap 4 from other cars' cameras and/or the trackside camera shots. If it's hard to see from Vettel's on-board camera then doesn't that suggest it would have been difficult to see from Vettel's POV in which case he shouldn't have gone by the fact the flag was there on Lap 3 and followed the lights. I've no doubt Vettel will keep the title but it does sour the result somewhat. Ferrari can't really win either way.
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