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Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 8)


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Old 23-08-2015, 20:56
TheToonArmy
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Yes another dull and boring race and it is all to predictable it was going to be like that. There was good weather today and so I went out and made the most of it. Glad I did it's just not worth the time to watch it live for racing like this. Only watched it while making dinner.

And yet if Ferrari had finished first it would have been a great race full of action and the best team won, Where as I say sod the sun, the toonarmy is a F1 fan

And even better is that your beloved Ferrari made a terrible call keeping vettel out causing the tire failure, haha
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Old 23-08-2015, 21:42
Forza Ferrari
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There was a fait bit of action, but the result was pretty much assured. I struggled to keep on watching the race - I even found myself wondering if I should watch the race at all, and I'm a fan of Hamilton!
Yeah they really need to do something for the good of the sport. The worrying thing is that a short while ago there was some recognition of the current problems now the collective hear appears to have gone back in the sand.

Viewing figures and race attendances dropping are going to damage the financial value of F1 and that is going to translate to races and teams disapearing.

Bernie is trying to get ride of the Italian GP. The German GP is supossed to come back in 2016 but it would be no surprise if that somehow doesn't happen.
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Old 23-08-2015, 23:05
TheToonArmy
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and keeping up with normal practice, what you dont like to hear / read you just ignore

Ferrari lost it through their incompetence, all the talk has been about this Ferrari resurgence, thats funny as there is none, they are still shi*e
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Old 24-08-2015, 07:41
Forza Ferrari
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Hearing bad news about Justin Wilson.


http://www.skysports.com/motor-racin...-indycar-race?

This guy was quite popular the flying giraffe they called him. Hope he comes out of this.
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Old 24-08-2015, 12:01
Assa2
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and keeping up with normal practice, what you dont like to hear / read you just ignore

Ferrari lost it through their incompetence, all the talk has been about this Ferrari resurgence, thats funny as there is none, they are still shi*e
Think it's too early to lay the blame on Ferrari to be honest. Pirelli game the tyres a ware life of 40 laps, much further then Vettel had taken them. His lap times suggest they hadn't worn particularly badly. It may turn out they didn't stand up to 28 laps of continual running over the kerbs the way Vettel was doing but again, Pirelli hadn't issued any advice about that despite drivers exploring the track limits all through the weekend. It may just be one of those things and totally unrelated to Rosberg's blow out on Friday but after Silverstone 2013 I don't think Pirelli have ever regained the drivers' confidence completely.
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Old 24-08-2015, 12:09
Assa2
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Yes another dull and boring race and it is all to predictable it was going to be like that. There was good weather today and so I went out and made the most of it. Glad I did it's just not worth the time to watch it live for racing like this. Only watched it while making dinner.
Vettel's tyre blow-out whilst being chased down by the Lotus for 3rd, the Williams being slow, Verstappen and Kvyat storming through the pack, Hamilton being pretty dam masterful at the front. Yeah, all too dull and predictable. OK, it wasn't the most exciting race ever but neither was it dull and to be honest Spa in the dry tends not to be great. Don't expect an exciting race at Monza either. It's the nature of these fast, old-school tracks. Spa makes up for it by being unpredictable with the weather but occasionally it's dry.

It seems to be the easy option to criticise F1 race after race.
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Old 24-08-2015, 12:31
Forza Ferrari
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It seems to be the easy option to criticise F1 race after race.
We have seen new standards for dull racing set this year. It's no good trying to ignore it. A few DRS passes by cars that already have a straight line speed advantage and the odd random occurence such as tyres giving up and front wings falling off is no substitute for good racing.

No updates on Justin Wilson likely to be another thing which takes some time to hear anything. I saw a video of the crash another car had gone in the wall and it looks like Justin hit some debris which was bouncing body work I think. Luckily Justins car came to a stop in quite a gentle manner and so not really a big 2nd impact.
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Old 24-08-2015, 16:27
jmclaugh
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Easy win for Hamilton in a not very exciting race. As for Vettel well Pirelli were asked by the FIA to make tyres that wear out and the race commentators said he was pushing his luck trying to make them go that far but Pirelli hadn't warned Ferrari that they were taking a risk by running the tyre that long. Perhaps Pirelli need to give the teams a use by n laps for tyres at each race. Rosberg's tyre failure according to Pirelli was caused by a cut.

Meanwhile McLaren's 105 grid places penalty makes a nonsense of engine supplier Honda trying to improve their power plant and try and compete.
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Old 24-08-2015, 17:11
gomezz
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It is one thing to make tyres that wear out and lose performance quite another to have tyres that disintegrate with no warning as has appeared to have happened here.

Though I am not sure Vettel did all he could to keep safe once the tyre delaminated but the carcass was still intact. Too much of a hurry to get back to the pits with lack of regard to the risk to himself and to others.
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Old 24-08-2015, 18:25
alanwarwic
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Havn't tyres always delamintated in F1 near end of life?

I suspect the talk only started after the supplier contract changed.
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Old 25-08-2015, 03:21
dansus
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RIP Justin.
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Old 25-08-2015, 07:55
Forza Ferrari
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Sad to hear of this tragic end to Justin's story. May he be at peace.
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Old 25-08-2015, 09:19
Assa2
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Very sad news. The Brits don't have much luck racing in The States. Not quite 4 years since Wheldon's accident.
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Old 25-08-2015, 09:20
Assa2
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As for Vettel well Pirelli were asked by the FIA to make tyres that wear out and the race commentators said he was pushing his luck trying to make them go that far but Pirelli hadn't warned Ferrari that they were taking a risk by running the tyre that long. Perhaps Pirelli need to give the teams a use by n laps for tyres at each race. Rosberg's tyre failure according to Pirelli was caused by a cut.
I refer you to my earlier post #7580

Think it's too early to lay the blame on Ferrari to be honest. Pirelli gave the tyres a ware life of 40 laps, much further then Vettel had taken them. His lap times suggest they hadn't worn particularly badly. It may turn out they didn't stand up to 28 laps of continual running over the kerbs the way Vettel was doing but again, Pirelli hadn't issued any advice about that despite drivers exploring the track limits all through the weekend. It may just be one of those things and totally unrelated to Rosberg's blow out on Friday but after Silverstone 2013 I don't think Pirelli have ever regained the drivers' confidence completely.
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Old 25-08-2015, 22:56
TheToonArmy
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Interesting to see how they come up with the 40 laps, as far as I know they are not given a recent F1 car and test time on a track to come up with these figures.

I guess the figure is come about from simulated tyre ware and actual tyre ware from the 3 testing sessions.

Interesting that more fuss is made of a tyre failure than a front/back wing exploding on a straight as has recently happened, but then tyres are not team made/designed so are easy targets.
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Old 26-08-2015, 02:35
codename_47
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Think it's too early to lay the blame on Ferrari to be honest. Pirelli game the tyres a ware life of 40 laps, much further then Vettel had taken them. His lap times suggest they hadn't worn particularly badly. It may turn out they didn't stand up to 28 laps of continual running over the kerbs the way Vettel was doing but again, Pirelli hadn't issued any advice about that despite drivers exploring the track limits all through the weekend. It may just be one of those things and totally unrelated to Rosberg's blow out on Friday but after Silverstone 2013 I don't think Pirelli have ever regained the drivers' confidence completely.
You mean the silverstone 2013 when the teams went against Pirelli's recommendations and were doing stupid things like having left rear tyres on the right rear for competitive reasons then completely threw Pirelli to the media wolves because of a problem that was their own creation?
Righttttttt....

Ferrari pushed their luck on this one, fair enough they were trying to push the margins in the hopes of a good finish but at least have the decency to admit you're the one at fault when it all blows up in your face.
Vettel's classless swearing at Pirelli when he had no evidence at that point about the cause of the failure except for the extreme strategy he knew he'd been running will win him few fans and probably lose him what little he has.
Show some class, kid.
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Old 26-08-2015, 10:18
pork.pie
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I see we're back to canopy discussion again, it always happens and never happens.
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Old 26-08-2015, 11:35
Assa2
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You mean the silverstone 2013 when the teams went against Pirelli's recommendations and were doing stupid things like having left rear tyres on the right rear for competitive reasons then completely threw Pirelli to the media wolves because of a problem that was their own creation?
Righttttttt....
Yes, that's the one... except that the teams ran the race fully compliant with Pirelli's recommendations and it didn't make a blind bit of difference. The teams were certainly not faultless and the entire situation came about because Pirelli were forced to muck about with the compounds without the safety net of adequate testing, but Pirelli's total failure to admit any culpability or explain adequately what was going on has left a trust issue which has only been re-awakened by this weekend.

Ferrari pushed their luck on this one, fair enough they were trying to push the margins in the hopes of a good finish but at least have the decency to admit you're the one at fault when it all blows up in your face.
Vettel's classless swearing at Pirelli when he had no evidence at that point about the cause of the failure except for the extreme strategy he knew he'd been running will win him few fans and probably lose him what little he has.
Show some class, kid.
Pirelli recommended the tyres would last 40 laps. That's 40 laps before they 'hit the cliff' and needed changing, not 40 laps before they blew up! 2 seconds earlier and Vettel would have been on his way to the biggest accident of his career. Pirelli immediately blamed Ferrari for running the tyre too long despite that being totally contradictory to their own recommendation and without any data of their own about the incident. I think Vettel had every right to be upset. Driver Briefings are confidential but it has been reported that the drivers were unanimous in their concerns about the tyres after Rosberg's accident on Friday. Justified or not it's clear the drivers don't trust the tyres 100% especially with Monza coming up.
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Old 26-08-2015, 20:49
Forza Ferrari
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Pirelli recommended the tyres would last 40 laps. That's 40 laps before they 'hit the cliff' and needed changing, not 40 laps before they blew up! 2 seconds earlier and Vettel would have been on his way to the biggest accident of his career.
Yes I think thats correct. Ferrari gambled on the strategy but the gamble is lose pace and get past not the tyre disintegrating and the car going in the wall. The tyre going shortly later when Vettel braked for Le Combe would not have been going either.

The FIA are considering mandated tyre guidelines which I think is fairy unprecedented.

One thing I notice about the Pirelli tyres on all cars in quite a bit of growth. The sidewalls bulge and this possibly increases the contact patch. It also increase the likely hood of damage to the sidewall and cuts to the tyre.
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Old 26-08-2015, 21:03
Ulysses777
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I see we're back to canopy discussion again, it always happens and never happens.
Indeed, it will never happen unless they enlarge the closed cockpit dimensions to LMP levels.
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Old 27-08-2015, 07:50
Forza Ferrari
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Indeed, it will never happen unless they enlarge the closed cockpit dimensions to LMP levels.
I'm not to sure something might happen eventually although they are talking about in five years time.

It might not be a completely closed cockpit but some sort of extra protection.
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Old 27-08-2015, 09:45
Assa2
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I think the issue is the concept of acceptable level of risk. You will never make F1 100% safe. Nothing in life is 100% safe. Would close cockpits make the sport safer or would it bring it's own new risks? There was a discussion on here a few weeks ago about whether the perceived danger associated with the sport was part of its appeal.

The sort of accident that caused Wilson's death would be extremely unlikely in F1 due to the more open nature of the tracks meaning the risk of debris flying around on track for a passing car to intercept it low. The only accident we've had in recent times that is similar was Massa's caused by another car shedding a part. That said it's quite clear that a driver's head is the most vulnerable part of their body in a modern F1 car. Can the modern day crash helmet be improved to give more protection?
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Old 27-08-2015, 10:32
BinaryDad
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One thing I notice about the Pirelli tyres on all cars in quite a bit of growth. The sidewalls bulge and this possibly increases the contact patch. It also increase the likely hood of damage to the sidewall and cuts to the tyre.
Increasing the contact patch has no real positive effect on grip. A more consistent contact patch is the key, and you'll get this with lower tire pressures.

But there are guidelines on minimum pressures etc for the tires, and teams not following them can find themselves in hot bother. If the sidewalls are bulging too much for cuts, and the teams are within the guidelines, then the guidelines need to be revised.
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Old 27-08-2015, 12:25
Forza Ferrari
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Pirelli give the teams guidelines on tyre pressures at the start of the race. I'm not sure if there
Is any thing in the sporting or technical regs stating teams can be sanctioned for not following these.

Not that the rule book counts for much the stewards were quite happy to make it up as they went along when Williams ran two tyre compounds. It wasn't like they even changed it straight away so I am fairy sure that was a breach of the technical regulations and generally thr punishment for that is disqualification. They got off quite lightly with a drive through which I don't think is defined anywhere for a breach of tyre regulations.
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Old 27-08-2015, 12:51
BinaryDad
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Pirelli give the teams guidelines on tyre pressures at the start of the race. I'm not sure if there
Is any thing in the sporting or technical regs stating teams can be sanctioned for not following these.
The tire pressures, wheel camber and toe limits are set by Pirelli, but are not part of the tech regs themselves. They're usually addendum or technical notes issues at each race. The reason for this, as far as I believe, is because rule changes require an OK from all of the teams - but technical notes are not covered in the same ways because they may need to change depending on the track.

Compliance is enforced by the Race Director, so if he instructs a team that's outside of the tire limits set my Pirelli to change them, failure to do so amounts to a sporting reg penalty, which may be a drive through, stop and go, a DSQ or forced retirement (the "Meatball flag").


Not that the rule book counts for much the stewards were quite happy to make it up as they went along when Williams ran two tyre compounds. It wasn't like they even changed it straight away so I am fairy sure that was a breach of the technical regulations and generally thr punishment for that is disqualification. They got off quite lightly with a drive through which I don't think is defined anywhere for a breach of tyre regulations.
It's covered by the racing regulations. Section 25.2c says;

A set of tyres will be deemed to comprise two front and two rear tyres all of which must
be of the same specification.
The stewards can then decide which penalty applies by looking into section 16 of the sporting regulations. You can download all of the relevant info from http://www.fia.com/regulations/regul...ampionship-110
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