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Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 8)
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bryemycaz
15-11-2016
Ron Dennis is stepping down from McLaren.

Ron Dennis' 35-year tenure as the boss of McLaren has come to an end.

Dennis, 69, quit after being told by fellow shareholders on Tuesday that he must give up his position as chairman and chief executive of McLaren Group.

He did not want to step down and failed in a High Court bid last week to prevent McLaren putting him on 'gardening leave'. In a statement, Dennis said he was "disappointed" and called the grounds for his removal "entirely spurious".

He remains on the boards of McLaren Technology Group and McLaren Automotive and retains significant shareholdings in both.

Sad news and the End of an Era.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/37987396
Forza Ferrari
15-11-2016
Hopefully ron being sacked will lead to an improvement in Mclarens fortunes.

I was just thinking during qualifying last week that ron went out of his way to stop Red Bull from getting the honda engine.

Red Bull must be very grateful to ron for that. Although this departure may have came from a personal fall out I do think that many of his attitudes and decisions have often not help the team.
skinj
16-11-2016
Originally Posted by ACU:
“Thanks for the laughs.

Funny how Vettel could steer the best car around the track, yet his teammate was regularly beaten by other drivers. The current merc, is a lot better than its competitors, than the RB (that Vettel drove) was. This is bourne out by the results. How many 1-2 finishes did the RB have? A lot less than the current merc has had. Vettel, could drive that RB way better than any other driver on the grid. Thats not to say he is the best driver on the grid.

The current best driver on the grid is Alonso. Its just a shame he got a supermarket trolley to drive at the moment. Max showed hes got skill in the rain, however lets not get carried away. He was awesome yesterday, however I think he still has got a bit to learn. Which is no problem, as he has time on his side and no doubt he will be a future champion.

Rosberg is a step closer to the title. He must be ruing that there is an extra two races on the calendar this year. Otherwise he would have been champion a while back.”

All you've managed to say really is that Webber wasn't as good as Vettel, that doesn't make Vettel the best driver.
As proven when Ric' came in and completely outshone Vettel in his first season in the team & who is himself now being heavily challenged as best driver in the team.
Laugh away, but Vettel has been shown to not be the supreme driver that the dominance of RB seemed to imply.
ACU
16-11-2016
Originally Posted by skinj:
“All you've managed to say really is that Webber wasn't as good as Vettel, that doesn't make Vettel the best driver.
As proven when Ric' came in and completely outshone Vettel in his first season in the team & who is himself now being heavily challenged as best driver in the team.
Laugh away, but Vettel has been shown to not be the supreme driver that the dominance of RB seemed to imply.”

The point was (which you seemed to have missed) that if Vettel had the best car on the grid, why wasnt his team mate always finishing second. The car was very good, however Vettel made it look better than what it was. To clarify, the RB was the best car on the grid, however the others were not far behind. In comparison the current Mercs, are alot better than the rest.

When Daniel joined the team, that was the first season with all the engine changes, brake by wire, energy harvesting etc. Something Vettel struggled with, more than others. Is Daniel better than Vettel, no I dont think so. I also pointed out that I think Alonso is the best driver on the grid. not Vettel as you state.

Those who dismiss Vettel as an average driver, are mistaken. Hes better than average.

If you continue to post, what you posted in the original post, I will laugh away.
skinj
16-11-2016
Originally Posted by ACU:
“The point was (which you seemed to have missed) that if Vettel had the best car on the grid, why wasnt his team mate always finishing second. The car was very good, however Vettel made it look better than what it was. To clarify, the RB was the best car on the grid, however the others were not far behind. In comparison the current Mercs, are alot better than the rest.

When Daniel joined the team, that was the first season with all the engine changes, brake by wire, energy harvesting etc. Something Vettel struggled with, more than others. Is Daniel better than Vettel, no I dont think so. I also pointed out that I think Alonso is the best driver on the grid. not Vettel as you state.

Those who dismiss Vettel as an average driver, are mistaken. Hes better than average.

If you continue to post, what you posted in the original post, I will laugh away. ”

To repeat:
"All you've managed to say really is that Webber wasn't as good as Vettel, that doesn't make Vettel the best driver.
As proven when Ric' came in and completely outshone Vettel in his first season in the team & who is himself now being heavily challenged as best driver in the team.
Laugh away, but Vettel has been shown to not be the supreme driver that the dominance of RB seemed to imply."

Rosberg may be far nearer Hamilton's level than Webber was to Vettel.
Vettel however was massively shown up by a new teammate that had little to no experience in F1 at all let alone a totally new type of engine, and he has not shone at all at Ferrari either.

If you fail to see this point, it is you that the forum will be laughing at!

Alonso probably is one of the best drivers on the grid, but without at least a semi-competitive car he's very hard pushed to show it. He has out performed Button a few times but from memory hasn't Button had more failures?
ACU
17-11-2016
Originally Posted by skinj:
“To repeat:
"All you've managed to say really is that Webber wasn't as good as Vettel, that doesn't make Vettel the best driver.
As proven when Ric' came in and completely outshone Vettel in his first season in the team & who is himself now being heavily challenged as best driver in the team.
Laugh away, but Vettel has been shown to not be the supreme driver that the dominance of RB seemed to imply."

Rosberg may be far nearer Hamilton's level than Webber was to Vettel.
Vettel however was massively shown up by a new teammate that had little to no experience in F1 at all let alone a totally new type of engine, and he has not shone at all at Ferrari either.

If you fail to see this point, it is you that the forum will be laughing at!

Alonso probably is one of the best drivers on the grid, but without at least a semi-competitive car he's very hard pushed to show it. He has out performed Button a few times but from memory hasn't Button had more failures?”

You seem to have problems understanding. So I will keep it short and use small words. I have never said Vettel is/was the best driver. I have said that twice.
skinj
18-11-2016
Originally Posted by ACU:
“You seem to have problems understanding. So I will keep it short and use small words. I have never said Vettel is/was the best driver. I have said that twice.”

I'll keep it simple for you too.
The post you quoted me on was of me replying to someone else saying that I didn't think Vettel was ever the best driver. You then jump on my post saying it made you laugh.
Sounds very much like your were disagreeing with my point in a mocking way.
I you don't disagree with my point that he wasn't the best on the grid, what on earth were you finding funny or disagreeing with?
skinj
18-11-2016
Originally Posted by ACU:
“Those who dismiss Vettel as an average driver, are mistaken. Hes better than average.”

Roughly 50% of the grid are better than average. Means nothing at all.
gomezz
18-11-2016
Less than 50% if you consider all the good drivers who cannot get a seat because they don't have the petro-money or daddy dollars to buy their way in.
skinj
18-11-2016
Originally Posted by gomezz:
“Less than 50% if you consider all the good drivers who cannot get a seat because they don't have the petro-money or daddy dollars to buy their way in.”

Makes no difference how many drivers you count, just under 50% will be above average, & just under 50% will be below average!
gomezz
18-11-2016
Not if you are include all the many drivers who better than those currently on the grid. And for this comparison there only has to be one of those
skinj
18-11-2016
Originally Posted by gomezz:
“Not if you are include all the many drivers who better than those currently on the grid. And for this comparison there only has to be one of those ”

if you add 200 drivers to the list that are all better, the average skill level goes up but you still have roughly 50% of the drivers being better than average and roughly 50% being worse than average, depends on which definition of average you use.
Trajet
18-11-2016
Worst driver ever, even when daddy pays for your drives!

The rolling road block that was Pedro Diniz.
gomezz
18-11-2016
Originally Posted by skinj:
“if you add 200 drivers to the list that are all better, the average skill level goes up but you still have roughly 50% of the drivers being better than average and roughly 50% being worse than average, depends on which definition of average you use.”

But not 50% of the F1 grid. Careless use of percentages costs arguments.
skinj
19-11-2016
Originally Posted by gomezz:
“But not 50% of the F1 grid. Careless use of percentages costs arguments. ”

No, as I said roughly 50% of the grid is better than average. if you add 200 drivers to the grid, roughly 50% will still be better than the average for that grid.
Also depends on which version of "average" is being used!
gomezz
19-11-2016
Originally Posted by skinj:
“No, as I said roughly 50% of the grid is better than average”

Nope. Only strictly true if you had said

"Roughly 50% of the grid is better than the average of the drivers on the grid"

My assertion was that the average of the drivers capable of being on the grid was higher than the average of those actually on the grid (because some pay drivers had taken seats away from more talented drivers).
skinj
19-11-2016
Originally Posted by gomezz:
“Nope. Only strictly true if you had said

"Roughly 50% of the grid is better than the average of the drivers on the grid"

My assertion was that the average of the drivers capable of being on the grid was higher than the average of those actually on the grid (because some pay drivers had taken seats away from more talented drivers).”

Post #9333 did say 50% of the drivers on the grid.
It goes without saying that those on the grid are way above the global average. (With the odd Maldonado exception!)
Hacker Harrier
20-11-2016
Originally Posted by Trajet:
“Worst driver ever, even when daddy pays for your drives!

The rolling road block that was Pedro Diniz.”

Yuji Ide and Johnny Carwash (Giovanni Lavaggi) were far worse. The 'Diniz in the Oven!' headline always makes me smile though.

GPrejects (formerly F1rejects) is the go-to site with regards to the tail-end Charlies of F1.
f1fantic1
21-11-2016
Yuji Ide was the worst.
f1fantic1
21-11-2016
Marcus Ericsson has been announced as a Sauber driver for next year. I'm surprised about this but money talks.
f1fantic1
22-11-2016
Malaysia will no longer on the calendar in 2018 due to declining crowds and money.
gomezz
22-11-2016
If it means Sepang can complete the job of making it a better and safer track for bike racing then this is a good thing.

They reportedly had a full house for MotoGP this year which shows they have a more attractive business model for that than that offered by F1.
Lin4237
22-11-2016
Originally Posted by skinj:
“All you've managed to say really is that Webber wasn't as good as Vettel, that doesn't make Vettel the best driver.
As proven when Ric' came in and completely outshone Vettel in his first season in the team & who is himself now being heavily challenged as best driver in the team.
Laugh away, but Vettel has been shown to not be the supreme driver that the dominance of RB seemed to imply.”

I agree with you Vettel is not the best driver in the team.
JasonWatkins
24-11-2016
Button confirms his retirement.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38092740

I know his contract has an option for him to return in 2018, but this appears to put paid to that notion as well, not that anyone actually thought it would happen, to be fair, as it was apparently only seen as a "safety net" for McClaren.

Sorry to see him finally step down personally. Nice guy and a great driver. Just unfortunate that he's been saddled with a crappy car the past few years.
simongvs70
25-11-2016
Yes, I'm also upset that he's confirming that he's retiring from F1. Still hopeful that he'll be competing in some form of sport, mind. WEC, rallycross, triathlons even, I don't mind!
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