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Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 8)


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Old 27-11-2016, 22:14
Forza Ferrari
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I see that they don't get on. Like almost all F1 team mates. Quelle Surprise!

No, I'm questioning your comment about Lewis backing Nico up because he wanted to annoy Nico, as if it's some kind of personal vendetta. It wasn't personal: He simply did it to improve his chances of retaining the championship. It's the harsh business of F1 racing.

It's irrelevant that it was Nico. Made no difference who it was behind him.
Well that's where we disagree.

I would be really surprised if lewis was so angry about getting the blame for Spain.

If he was of such a mind over it that would really demonstrate how much not being able to accept blame for his own actions is big weakness of his. Not externally but internally how he stores resentment and negative head space because he can't ever accept he is in the wrong.
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Old 27-11-2016, 22:20
SmoggyTheTowny
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Brief mention in Ted's Race Notebook about the aftermath of the Spain race where the Mercedes collided on the first lap. Seemingly Hamilton quit the team?
Doubt this is at all true. If it was you would have thought Mercedes would have announced not only that he quit but who they would be replacing him with, and that Lewis would have announced what he plans to do next year.

This is likely just one of the many incorrect paddock rumours that float around during the season.
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Old 27-11-2016, 22:33
SmoggyTheTowny
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What hamilton did today was no professional foul but it was cynical and devicive to the team. Some people will think less of hamilton for it that is one discussion.
And forcing Lewis to concede to Nico would not be divisive?
Those who think less of Lewis already didn't think a lot of him anyway, I don't think that really matters at all.
What are these people really saying anyway, that he should have just thrown in the towel and given up the fight that he was still part of.
The battle was not over until they both reached the chequered flag, even with Mercedes interference in trying to fix the result.

It's reported again that social media is exploding in britain again. People stating mercedes tried to stop hamilton winning the WDC by asking hamilton to speed up. Reading the tone it doesn't sound very rational.
Which is technically what they did. They interfered in the championship battle, made a request that would benefit only one of the driver's instead of just leaving them to fight it out between them.

Putting those sort of things aside was it the best thing to do for Hamilton's WDC.
It may not have been the best thing, but it was the only thing he could do in order to win the WDC. He already occupied the top position, and unless Nico lost positions he was not going to win.

Perhapes not, Seb Vettel has basically said he came up behind Rosberg saw the tactics Hamilton was deploying and decided to stay out of the whole mess.
Which may come to bite him in the backside when he needs someone help in winning a future championship.

Had Hamilton been 15s down the road as he no doubt could of been Seb would have been having more of a run at Rosberg. Assuming seb gets past it is then between Nicco and Max. I would have said thats how it should have been.
Had Hamilton been 15s up the road so would have Rosberg, he would have got no where near them.

Hamilton didn't only choose his tactics due to the WDC position. His nature came in to it too. Annoyance at loosing and a desire to be disruptive to Nicco directly.
Well they are really the same reasons.

Hamilton has lost the high ground he would have had running at straight race.
If he had ran a straight race he would have had lost the little chances of winning the championship he had as Nico would pretty much have been running around unchallenged behind him and would have won the WDC anyway.

It looks like Nicco has beaten hamilton more now. There is the occasions he's been faster, out raced him, now also he's stood up to the mind games, gamesmanship and rolling road block also.
Only thanks to Lewis having an extra DNF compared to Lewis. Factor out that DNF and Lewis would have won the WDC by 23 points.

Mercedes will worry that Hamilton might start this sort of disruption earlier in the year in 2017.
They already have a driver that will happily crash into him teammate (twice!) to stop him overtaking, so I don't think they will worry too much.

A team that favours one driver over the other and then denies it won't be bothered in the slightest.
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Old 27-11-2016, 22:36
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That's what I've heard as well, but from a different source. Hamilton, from what I've been told, wasn't impressed too impressed at being held 100% accountable for the coming together and told that he shouldn't have been trying to pass Rosberg anyhow. Not exactly a working environment anybody would want to be in.
If that is true, it is disgraceful. What sort of message does that send out from Mercedes.
You shouldn't be passing your teammate even though he was much slower because of his own mistake.
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Old 27-11-2016, 22:39
BinaryDad
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If that is true, it is disgraceful. What sort of message does that send out from Mercedes.
I think it's a pretty clear message when you realise that Lauda didn't convince Hamilton to sign for Merc; Brawn did.
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Old 27-11-2016, 22:55
owen10
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Do you think Lewis and Nico are the modern version of Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost as Lewis races like a maverick and Nico is more calm and measured
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Old 27-11-2016, 23:39
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And forcing Lewis to concede to Nico would not be divisive?
If Lewis had got the call to move over it would have been his own fault. A driver would normally only get that message because their team mate has more pace. Lewis slowly on purpose so he is creating that situation all by him self.

Given what some drivers would have been saying Nicco was very reserved.
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Old 27-11-2016, 23:42
owen10
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Does anybody here know the different rules for next season as they are saying that if Red Bulls car is good then Ricciardo and Verstappen could challenge the Mercedes
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Old 27-11-2016, 23:46
Forza Ferrari
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Which may come to bite him in the backside when he needs someone help in winning a future championship.
Drivers should expect to win championships by their selve. Why would hamilton ever be helping Vettel to a WDC.

If seb and lewis were in the same team and lewis was out of the champioship there is zero chance lewis would follow any team orders to help seb. So don't think seb has lost much there.
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Old 27-11-2016, 23:49
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Does anybody here know the different rules for next season as they are saying that if Red Bulls car is good then Riciardo and Vestappen could challenge the Mercedes
Wider cars, wider tyres and engine freeze gone.

It's going back to an areo formula. Red Bull expected to be on the up.

Mercedes cake walk could be coming to an end.
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Old 28-11-2016, 04:45
Smufter
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I so wanted Hamilton to win the Championship.
I'm not a Lewis "fanboy", far from it. But I'm English so wanted an Englishman to win. Simples.
I expected Hamilton to do what he did, as did everybody at Mercedes if they're honest.
It was the only option he had open to him once the pit stops were over with.
It's just a shame he didn't start doing it about 5 laps earlier.
Would I have done it? Sure as eggs are eggs, and so would everybody else on the grid.
Rosberg is champion because he was driving the 2nd fastest car on the grid.
Any of the top 10 drivers racing today would now be world champion had they been driving the other Merc.
My only annoyance with yesterday was Hamiltons reaction towards Rosberg after the race. Being a little more "gracious" in defeat, and genuinely congratulating him for his win would have done a lot for his customer relations. But no. The Hammy haters are going to have a field day.
Highlight of the day for me was David Coulthard on the podium, getting Hamilton to shake Rosbergs hand again and saying "there's the love".
Brought a smile to my face that did.
And when is Eddie Jordan going to piss off pretty please?????
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Old 28-11-2016, 04:53
JasonWatkins
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Toto Wolff has commented ..

"Once again, I'm in two minds. The one half of me says we have 1,500 people in the team, 300,000 in Daimler that create values. They respect those values and undermining the structure in public means you are putting yourself before the team. It's very simple, it is like it is. And anarchy doesn't work within any team or any company.

"The other half of me says it was Lewis' only chance of winning the championship at that stage and maybe you cannot demand a racing driver that is, one of the best, if not the best out there -- a real guard dog in the car -- to comply in a situation where his instincts cannot make him comply.It's about finding a solution how to solve that in the future because a precedent has been set. So let me sleep overnight and come up with a solution tomorrow."
http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/...internal-rules

Niki Lauda has also had his say ..

“As drivers we tried every trick in the book in my day, but there was always respect for your team-mate.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formul...s-sack-9349583

While I doubt very much he'll be sacked, he won't come out of this unscathed.
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Old 28-11-2016, 07:24
dearmrman
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If that is true, it is disgraceful. What sort of message does that send out from Mercedes.
You shouldn't be passing your teammate even though he was much slower because of his own mistake.
I think you are missing the point...the drivers championship is for the drivers & the fans, the team are not bothered about that. The team wants the cars to finish in the points, in Mercedes case 1 & 2, to show that they are the best team and don't care which driver does it, as long as they follow and obey the team line.

Fans may not like it, the drivers may not like it...but at the end of the day it is about the team not the driver.
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Old 28-11-2016, 07:32
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I'm not a Lewis "fanboy", far from it. But I'm English so wanted an Englishman to win. Simples.
Isn't it a shame we still have no women in F1.
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Old 28-11-2016, 07:53
Smufter
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Isn't it a shame we still have no women in F1.
Maybe we could have an F1 series just for women?
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Old 28-11-2016, 09:33
gomezz
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Why? We had someone who drives like an old woman become champion this year.

Have to agree that Lewis is not a cool or nice person out of the car and could learn to be more gracious in defeat.
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Old 28-11-2016, 09:50
Smiley433
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Doubt this is at all true. If it was, you would have thought Mercedes would have announced not only that he quit but who they would be replacing him with, and that Lewis would have announced what he plans to do next year.

This is likely just one of the many incorrect paddock rumours that float around during the season.
This was the first time I'd heard of this rumour. If it were true, it just kinda confirms the child-like behaviour Hamilton is capable of when he doesn't get his way. However, I'm guilty here of judging him without knowing all the facts.

He is, though, guilty of disrespecting his team. He forgets he is driving for TeamMercedes first and TeamLH second. Trying to force your own teammate lower down the final race standings by deliberately driving slower and encouraging the opposition to overtake is just not on.

Had that actually worked, the team would have ended up with perhaps eight points fewer than they would have with a 1-2 finish. OK that probably equates to pocket money to the team and LH when the prize money is split up at the end of the year based on the points won, but I don't see it as acceptable behaviour.

I dare say he sometimes has the ability to drive well, but he has not endeared himself with this episode and just adds to his unlikeable attributes.

I'm glad Nico won the championship.
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Old 28-11-2016, 10:09
Cyberdame
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If Lewis had sped away with Nico following him away from the pack it would have been a boring end to the race for the championship. By Lewis backing Nico up into the jaws of the pack it showed that Nico hasn't got the skill to get cleanly past Hamilton and it gave the fans the spectacle we had been wanting. A nailbiting finale down to the last corner of the last lap.

It made what could have been a very boring procession to the end more exciting.
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Old 28-11-2016, 10:10
eggchen
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Isn't it a shame we still have no women in F1.
Presumably because there is no room for sat-nav on the car.
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Old 28-11-2016, 10:15
gomezz
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One rule change that would help sort out the best women drivers: They would have to reverse parallel park into their pit box when doing their pit stops.
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Old 28-11-2016, 10:27
ACU
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That's what I've heard as well, but from a different source. Hamilton, from what I've been told, wasn't impressed too impressed at being held 100% accountable for the coming together and told that he shouldn't have been trying to pass Rosberg anyhow. Not exactly a working environment anybody would want to be in.
I am calling BS on this. He was probably told you should not be trying to pass on the outside. The Spain accident was Hamiltons fault. He was very lucky he was able to collect Rosberg, Otherwise Rosberg would have been a further 25 points ahead.

You got a source, for your version of the story?
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Old 28-11-2016, 10:29
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I think Rosberg is the deserving champion. He drove more consistently during the whole of the season. Hamilton is the better driver though. However the best driver hardly ever wins the championship. If the best driver always won the championship Alonso would have won the last 5 odd championships. The last driver who won the championship and was the best driver on the grid was Schumacher.

Hamilton has had bad luck this season, with his reliability. However as Hamilton says, why is it always his engine that has problems? Why not the other 7 odd cars? However if it is always his car that has problems, maybe its his driving style that causes the problems. In which case, it isnt bad luck, but his inability to drive the car in a way that wont break it.

Hamilton has also had good luck during the season. People tend to forget about this. Safety cars coming out, and allowing Hamilton to close the gap as he makes his way through the field. Taking Rosberg out in Spain. This season being 2 races longer than previous season, working in Hamiltons favour. If it was a 20 race season, Rosberg would have won the title a month or 2 back.

Rosberg had good and bad luck as well. Funny when Rosberg was having problems, people in this thread saying it was Karma. Isnt karma also involved now that Hamilton isnt WC?

Over the course of the season, things work themselves out. At the end of the day, Rosberg finished with the most points. So he is the deserving WC. Well done Rosberg, you deserve it more than any other driver.

Some of the Hamiltons behaviour this season has been appalling. I dont need to go over it, as all of you know what I mean. The worst of all. When at the team press meeting in Suzuka, turning round to the Merc press officer (who was smiling) and saying to him, "you wont be smiling for much longer" or words to that effect. Hamilton then waked out later. Despicable person.
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Old 28-11-2016, 10:39
skinj
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Yeah I didn't like it much either Lewis had all year to beat Rosberg. He needed to gain the extra points at some of the other GPs not somehow sabotage Rosbergs final GP.

It never looked like it was going to work for Hamilton. Even if Max or Vettel had passed Rosberg they would have then been after Hamilton which means he has to re-engage, actually start racing which then gives Rosberg the space on track to escape the other cars behind.


It's made Hamilton look bad to many people. I think Totto Wolf amongst them. He said after the race that if hamilton had gone off and won the race by as much as possible then this would have shown him to be the best driver but instead he choose another path.

The other thing is that if hamilton had driven to his actual pace and left everything behind him to be genuine racing then things might of been different. For one Rosbergs engine had an additional 400km on it so why not make the pace as hot as possible.
Don't think you understand what Hamilton had to do in this race at all.
The only way for him to win the WDC was for Rosberg to finish 4th or below. The Merc's were, as shown in qualy, much quicker than the rest of the pack in both drivers' hands.
If Hamilton sped off and made the pace as hot as possible what would Rosberg have done? The answer is, nothing. He would have sat in second place staying comfortably ahead of any one else but not stressing his engine to catch someone he didn't need to catch.
Had Hamilton backed Rosberg in to Verstappen/Vettell earlier one or both of them could have had a chance to get past & obviously in doing so creates the chance of a collision & damage to Rosberg's car. Even if Ver/Vet had got past Rosberg and were behind Hamilton, he still could dictate the pace. he would be able to go more quickly to fend them off as there was no one in front of him slowing him down.
His plan was flawless apart from not being executed early enough.
He could/should have been slow from the start. Rosberg couldn't risk overtaking him (or maybe have the balls/skill to do so in a direct fight) & Hamilton has shown he is happier to overtake others if he had managed to get them both overtaken during the pit stops.
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Old 28-11-2016, 10:39
gomezz
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The Spain accident was Hamiltons fault
Can't let this little bit of revisionist version of history go unchallenged.

Nico cocks up his car set up on the formation lap, realises he has exposed himself to a passing move so moves across from the natural racing line out of the first corner when there is already an overlap. At most it is a 50-50 racing incident.
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Old 28-11-2016, 11:11
Forza Ferrari
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I've heard that Nigel Mansel tweeted during the race that what Lewis was doing was wrong and that he wouldn't have done the same as he is a sportsman.
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