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Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 8)


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Old 06-12-2016, 15:25
ACU
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I guess that you missed the fact that the pit crews were switched??? In case you don't understand my bad English the crew Louis used to have was switched with Rosberg's crew, you have to ask yourself why.
Certain people (not all of the pit crew) on Rosbergs side of the garage were switched with those on Hamiltons. However that switch happened at the start of the season. Sky asked Wolfe about this switch, he gave what I thought was a reasonable answer. Cant remember what the answer was now. I am sure of you google, you will find the answer.

You are way of with your comments. However as you say you are entitled to them - however crazy they maybe.
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Old 06-12-2016, 15:36
ACU
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I am really starting to detest Mercedes as an organisation. The way the managed the last race of the season was a disaster, the way they've handled Rosberg's retirement has been disgraceful (Lauda is becoming more and more a parody and is going to do the company some serious PR damage soon) and now they're publically flirting with Alonso despite him being under contract with Mclaren. I've no issue with Wolff discussing Alonso's contractual situation with the driver and Mclaren but you do not make it public. Utterly classless. I hope he turns them down (why would he want to drive with Hamilton again?) and they find it impossible to fill the seat with anyone experienced.
I dont see how managing the race was a disaster. Teams have been issuing orders to drivers for ages. Never done anyone any harm. To be honest I havent followed their handling of Rosbergs retirement, so cant comment.

The only thing I have heard, was Wolffe saying he was going to look at all options. Lets be honest, you can bet Wolffe will be talking to most drivers. So no big surprise Alonso is one of them. I bet he will make enquires about half of he grid, just so he has covered all options. To be honest if he didnt you would have to question him as its what his role entails. I think you are making too much of this.

As for why he would want to drive with Hamilton - maybe he thinks he can beat him. Also it may have more to do with challenging again for a title. Cant be much fun driving the Mclaren again around mid-field all season. Mercs are a much better option.
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Old 06-12-2016, 17:22
Smufter
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I dont see how managing the race was a disaster. Teams have been issuing orders to drivers for ages.
Because prior to the race they said they were going to let both drivers "race"... they weren't going to interfere.
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Old 06-12-2016, 18:24
skinj
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My pit crew comment had nothing to do with the news article.

Comment about the pit crew was made by the pit wall on the day of the race, it was made just as a comment, nothing specific & I just remembered it.

You are completely entitled to think what you want but I do not have to agree and that works both ways. I beg to differ.
??? I reply to a comment you made regarding an interview with Lauda, you reply to that saying I missed the bit about the pit crews, which was not in the article being discussed.

I don't even know what I could be disagreeing with you about that works both ways. I have lost the trail of the interchange we were having.
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Old 06-12-2016, 18:40
skinj
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Certain people (not all of the pit crew) on Rosbergs side of the garage were switched with those on Hamiltons. However that switch happened at the start of the season. Sky asked Wolfe about this switch, he gave what I thought was a reasonable answer. Cant remember what the answer was now. I am sure of you google, you will find the answer.

You are way of with your comments. However as you say you are entitled to them - however crazy they maybe.
I think Wolff fairly much said that switching team member around means that they don't develop a "Them & Us" mentality with Hamilton's side always battling Rosberg's. Think he felt that switching around would allow the whole team to grow as one and not split down the middle.
Seems very logical when you think about it but the change did seem to affect Hamilton more to start with as he was very comfortable with everyone around him and seemed to decide the change was done to favour Rosberg, something was still seeming to claim at the press conference before the Abu Dhabi GP when he said we'll find out what actually happened in his book in ten years time!
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Old 06-12-2016, 18:51
skinj
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I am really starting to detest Mercedes as an organisation. The way the managed the last race of the season was a disaster, the way they've handled Rosberg's retirement has been disgraceful (Lauda is becoming more and more a parody and is going to do the company some serious PR damage soon) and now they're publically flirting with Alonso despite him being under contract with Mclaren. I've no issue with Wolff discussing Alonso's contractual situation with the driver and Mclaren but you do not make it public. Utterly classless. I hope he turns them down (why would he want to drive with Hamilton again?) and they find it impossible to fill the seat with anyone experienced.
Can't say I detest them them but their PR and handling of the race was poor imho.
It was obvious what Hamilton would do if leading the race, it was his only option. To give an order to speed up was just daft because not only was it the opposite of what Hamilton needed to do, but realistically it would have gained Merc nothing that anyone would remember positively in years to come.
Had they just told Nico that it was a race between them and he had to deal with situation & tactics, I think most people watching would have been more than happy to an interesting last 10 laps of the race.
After the race their PR was all over the place, Lowe/Lauda/Wolff all seemed to be coming up with alternative reason for why Hamilton did what he did and why they made the call. Lauda was saying they needed to check data to see if Ham's car had issues, Lowe just wanted to get Nico past to secure a one-two & Wolff was torn as a boss & an ex driver as to what they should/shouldn't have done. Then they started to make comments about sanctions against Hamilton until Rosberg retires and suddenly they are happy with what was done and it's all swept under the rug.

If they ever end up in a situation like this year again I think we'll either know up-front who the no1 driver is going in to the "decider", or they'll make a point of saying the drivers can race as hard as they want but don't crash (heavily) in doing so.
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Old 06-12-2016, 22:31
ati_qtimporta
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Fernando, when we left I was but the learner. Now I *am* the master.

I don't get the meaning of that "but" right there in the middle.....
I guess you mean that when they left Ham was the learner and now (in your opinion) is the master.

Well, in that case, he has nothing to be afraid of.

In Mclaren Ham had all the team in his favour and that is why I said in equal terms.
Nothing would rise more the audience than that duel. At least in my humble opinion.
Alonso with a tractor aka Ferrari managed to fight until the last race for the championship twice. The first time his team ruined his chances, and the second one, Vettel was very lucky.....
Maybe with Mercedes he would have his third chance.
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Old 07-12-2016, 18:42
Forza Ferrari
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Because prior to the race they said they were going to let both drivers "race"... they weren't going to interfere.
If Lewis was racing then so are the buses.

First must have the biggest stable of three times world champions in the UK.
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Old 08-12-2016, 01:15
sergio2006
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Alonso v Hamilton in equal machinery with equal status from the start is exactly what Formula 1 needs. The last 3/4 years have been poor and predictable.

Come on Mercedes, for the good of the sport you must sign Alonso on a 3 year deal.

Im a big fan of Alonso but I think 3 seasons in the fastest car Lewis would take 2 WDC's and Fernando 1. In my opinion Lewis is slightly faster but Fernando is smarter (modern day Senna v Prost). It would be brilliant to see them fighting for a title again.
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Old 08-12-2016, 04:53
Smufter
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If Lewis was racing then so are the buses.
.
On the basis that the whole world and his wife knew what Lewis was going to try to do, I was more interested in the "we're not going to interfere" part.
They didn't add the caveat that Lewis had to disappear off into the sunset....
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Old 08-12-2016, 08:11
Forza Ferrari
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Telling lewis to drive properly is hardly interfering.

Mercedes always said they would interfere when the win was at stake.
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Old 08-12-2016, 17:08
Smufter
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Telling lewis to drive properly is hardly interfering.
Errrr......like he was going to listen with a world championship to win????
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Old 09-12-2016, 08:08
Forza Ferrari
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Well he had already lost the world championship earlier in the year. Now he was hoping another driver was going to win it for him.

The only reason he wasn't listening is that he lacks the humility to lose with dignity.
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Old 09-12-2016, 09:26
Assa2
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Well he had already lost the world championship earlier in the year. Now he was hoping another driver was going to win it for him.

The only reason he wasn't listening is that he lacks the humility to lose with dignity.
Sounds like the kind of excuse made by people who are happy to lose and therefore rarely win anything. This isn't under 7's 'soccer' where no-one loses. Hamilton had a mathematical chance of winning the DC so of course drove the only strategy he could to try to get that outcome. Any driver with the slightest ambition (I assume that's all of them) would have done the same. Mercedes knew exactly what Hamilton was going to do but chose to try to interfere. Why? In hindsight I'd suggest they (maybe only Toto) knew Rosberg was going to retire and this was their last chance to get a German DC in a Mercedes.
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Old 09-12-2016, 12:49
Forza Ferrari
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Well Nigel Mansel disagrees.
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Old 09-12-2016, 14:59
homer911
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If trying to win a world championship is wrong i don't want to be right.

That's all that needs to be said.
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Old 09-12-2016, 15:22
skinj
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Well Nigel Mansel disagrees.
Fairly sure that if someone asked him in 1983 if he'd ever try to push his car to the line he would have said he wouldn't too. It's only when faced with the weird situations that you can actually decide what you're going to do.
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Old 09-12-2016, 15:55
Assa2
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1983? If you're referring to his Adelaide blow out, pretty sure that was 1986. But yes, the point stands - he 'raced' to the end rather than driving a tactical race and it cost him the championship. Nige was arguably as quick as his contempories but he lost races & DCs to Prost, Piquet & Senna due to his lack of racing intelligence. He was worth more than a single title.

The point is Mansell pretty much stands alone in his opinion about Hamilton's driving.
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Old 09-12-2016, 16:45
naquada
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1983? If you're referring to his Adelaide blow out, pretty sure that was 1986. But yes, the point stands - he 'raced' to the end rather than driving a tactical race and it cost him the championship. Nige was arguably as quick as his contempories but he lost races & DCs to Prost, Piquet & Senna due to his lack of racing intelligence. He was worth more than a single title.

The point is Mansell pretty much stands alone in his opinion about Hamilton's driving.

I think Skinj is reffering to when "Our Nige" was driving for Lotus and did indeed try to push it over the line. Dallas 1984 I believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS0gKOLG5W4
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Old 09-12-2016, 17:00
skinj
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I think Skinj is reffering to when "Our Nige" was driving for Lotus and did indeed try to push it over the line. Dallas 1984 I believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS0gKOLG5W4
Indeed. If someone posed him the theoretical question in '83 he probably would have said "no, don't be stupid!" & laughed it off!
That said, even if he managed to complete his task and won additional points because of it, I think that would have been worse than the tactics be Hamilton.
After all it's supposed to be about someone driving a car round a circuit, not pushing one. If the car had failed but managed to freewheel over the line that would be fine as it was still done under it's own power.
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Old 12-12-2016, 08:21
soulboy77
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So Bottas is first choice to take over Nico's seat at Mercedes. Can't say it surprises me after Briatore ruled Alonso out this week. At least Mercedes has some leverage on Williams being their engine supplier but it looks like they will have to help with finding an experienced replacement driver, else no deal.
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Old 12-12-2016, 12:02
Assa2
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Reading that Williams have said no to Bottas leaving, but I suspect that's just the start of the conversation. Coincidentally Sky are reporting that Lowe is leaving Mercedes for Williams with James Alison replacing him.

Ordinarily I don't think Williams would fight too hard to keep Bottas but with the driver market as sparse as it is and with a relatively inexperienced driver in one car already they need a 'veteran'.
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Old 12-12-2016, 18:39
Forza Ferrari
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Williams will have to give mercedes bottas if mercedes want him.

They control the engine supply to williams and so can use this to bully them.
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Old 13-12-2016, 13:53
Assa2
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Merc can't withold engines or change the price as Williams have a contract. The advantage of having a Merc engine is becoming less and less and I'm sure Merc won't want to start losing customers to Renault (or Ferrari). They won't use engine supply as leverage. Unless Bottas does a 'Button' I think Merc will have to live with a junior driver for next season.
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Old 13-12-2016, 19:00
Playamonte
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Well he had already lost the world championship earlier in the year. Now he was hoping another driver was going to win it for him.

The only reason he wasn't listening is that he lacks the humility to lose with dignity.
IMO he should have just gone flat out from the start (as he would normally do) as it was odds on that Rosberg would take the title.
He would have come out smelling of roses & I fancy in hindsight he wished he had.
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