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Official Formula 1 Thread (Part 8) |
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#1251 |
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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With regards to Grosjean. Don't think Lotus are ready to remove him from the team just yet. Think Ted mentioned that Grosjean is managed by Eric Boullier and that Lotus were prepared to write this week off and move on with him in future races.
And the fact that Kimi is possibly joining Red Bull next season, would mean that Lotus would have to fill two race positions if that did happen, and they may not be so keen to do so. I don't approve of Grosjean's driving. It hasn't been good on multiple occasions, just think that Lotus won't be too quick to remove him and may look to see what he can do in the remainder of the season. Don't think Hamilton should shoulder too much of the blame for finishing fourth. As has been mentioned don't think anyone thought the Red Bulls were going to be released that quickly, and as such Lewis may not have been able to do much about it anyway. Have to mention great drive by Sutil to finish fifth. He really does seem to have a knack of driving the Monaco circuit. Also have to mention the great moves by Perez before he went a bit too far but was certainly entertaining. A shame to see Hulkenburg finish just outside the points. People are already saying he made a bad decision to join Sauber from Force India but when he made that decision it was after a season where Sauber had achieved multiple podiums and were one of the best teams at managing the tyres, so surely it was a decision most drivers would have made in that position, not just Hulkenburg. Would be nice to see Sauber improve as the season goes on and them scoring regular points. Canada is always a thoroughly entertaining race and with many teams and drivers having the potential to win, should be again this season. |
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#1252 |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Quote:
TBH, I'm not sure it would have made a big difference.
Even if he'd come in right behind Rosberg he would, at best, have ended up between Vettel and Webber. Hamilton's said that it was his own fault for taking it easy on the way into the pits but I don't think anybody was prepared for quite how quickly the SC let the RBRs past and how quickly they completed the lap to get around before Hamilton left the pits. He should have been stacking and if so should have come out second. Driver error. |
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#1253 |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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#1254 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,658
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FIA saying nercedes to face sanctions over illegal secrete test. Pirell had permission to test with a current car but only if all teams had the option to do so. FIA clearly stated this and Mercedes and Pirell went behind everybodies backs.
This is now getting as bad as mclaren spygate or lewis liegate. Funny as a top team mclaren are still so quiet. It cant all be down to the engine they have. Mclaren have a terrible year worse than force india. How can they stand back and watch a competitor get an illegal advantage like this. I can only concluded their silence is bought with data from the test. After all mclaren faster than ferrari for the first time this year at monaco so how did that happen? |
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#1255 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Quote:
I don't think anybody was prepared for quite how quickly the SC let the RBRs past and how quickly they completed the lap to get around before Hamilton left the pits.
It was Hamilton's error, and he's clearly admitted that! |
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#1256 |
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Quote:
FIA saying nercedes to face sanctions over illegal secrete test.
We don't know if Mercedes knew/realised that all teams had to be offered the opportunity to test, or that Pirelli hadn't done so. Frankly that's Pirelli's job anyway, Mercedes can't offer a test to the other teams, so in just agreeing to the test they didn't do anything wrong. The issue for them is how much they knew of the fact that Pirelli didn't bother to offer the same opportunity to all teams, and whether Mercedes were in fact allowed to use their current car. It's all about interpretation of rules, and clearly it's not black and white otherwise this would all be resolved one way or the other by now. Mercedes wouldn't throw away a championship where they can still get into contention and where they're beating McLaren in the constructors' championship, so it seems doubtful to me that they'd deliberately do a test they thought was illegal when it would quite clearly be discovered at some point. Their tyre wear was terrible at the last race, but at other races they have got podiums and solid points finishes, so their situation wasn't desperate. They clearly thought this test was legal, the question is whether they misinterpreted the rules, whether Pirelli misinterpreted their own contract and who should take the fall for it. Quote:
After all mclaren faster than ferrari for the first time this year at monaco so how did that happen?
Oh for goodness' sake! Cars do not perform the same at every circuit because the downforce etc pressures work in different ways due to the different layouts. Ferarri were not strong all weekend, as was repeatedly picked up in the commentary on the practice sessions, qualifying and the race. They were much slower than the Red Bulls as well. The Monaco circuit suited Mercedes, and when tyre wear would have been an issue in the race, so many incidents happened that allowed them to change tyres so falling off the cliff wasn't an issue for anyone. Up until that point they were clearly looking after their tyres as the laps were so slow.
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#1257 |
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Devon
Posts: 47,964
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An oddly subdued race with it seems many racing much slower than their cars could actually go.
I was amused by Perez who seems to think all he has to do is come roaring down the inside at the chicane and the others will get out of his way to avoid a crash. Raikkonen's comment was a classic, asked if the drivers would talk to Perez, he said: "That won't help. Maybe someone should punch him in the face." |
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#1258 |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dumfries
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Quote:
That was nothing to do with it - the SC lets cars through immediately as they have to be able to form up. And the Red Bulls had to drive at the limited lap speed same as everyone else.
It was Hamilton's error, and he's clearly admitted that! I was just pointing out that a racing lap of Monaco is about 1:20 and the SC headed out just as the RBRs were passing the pits and the Merc's were, IIRC, past the tunnel by then so I don't think anybody thought there was much need for haste. I'm guessing that Hamilton's thought was that bad things happen in F1 cars when they're sitting still so he slowed down to avoid that. With hindsight, he might've been better sitting right behind Rosberg but then trundling down the pitlane at 20mph rather than dropping back and then pitting at "full speed". |
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#1259 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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[quote=Yamaha125;66088724]Well it just gets worse for Mercedes. http://t.sport.uk.msn.com/f1/new-twist-in-tyre-test-row [\quote]
So pirrel didn't even tell the FIA about the test just asked about the possibility and then did it with out telling the FIA. Mercedes are coming the innocent but that can't be right. Lauder said and the TV Mercedes asked the FIA if they can do the test. But how can this be the truth if the FIA don't know about the test. Pirrel have proven they can't be trusted to self police these tests. They are struggling to get the tyre contract back and Mercedes are a major critic. So they organise a secrete test to serve their own agenda. If there are going to be tyre tests under a testing ban then FIA scrutineers must be there to observe. |
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#1260 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Quote:
the TV Mercedes asked the FIA if they can do the test. But how can this be the truth if the FIA don't know about the test.
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#1261 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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The way i saw it, Is the test that Mercedes and Pirelli took part in, was only allowed if conditions were met. The conditions were not met, hence why there has been a real fuss caused. If Mercedes were totally comfortable with this they would have mentioned it and been more open. They were offered a chance and without making sure it was all above board and legal they just went for a cheap advantage.
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#1262 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dumfries
Posts: 38,495
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Quote:
So pirrel didn't even tell the FIA about the test just asked about the possibility and then did it with out telling the FIA.
Mercedes are coming the innocent but that can't be right. Lauder said and the TV Mercedes asked the FIA if they can do the test. But how can this be the truth if the FIA don't know about the test. Pirrel have proven they can't be trusted to self police these tests. They are struggling to get the tyre contract back and Mercedes are a major critic. So they organise a secrete test to serve their own agenda. If there are going to be tyre tests under a testing ban then FIA scrutineers must be there to observe. |
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#1263 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sussex by the Sea
Posts: 19,193
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Quote:
An oddly subdued race with it seems many racing much slower than their cars could actually go.
I was amused by Perez who seems to think all he has to do is come roaring down the inside at the chicane and the others will get out of his way to avoid a crash. Raikkonen's comment was a classic, asked if the drivers would talk to Perez, he said: "That won't help. Maybe someone should punch him in the face." This isn't motor racing. It's a tyre design exercise. |
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#1264 |
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Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 9
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I thought Eddie Jordan said that the testing of Pirelli tyreswas okay because Mercedes weren't the front runners in the Formula 1.
If you ask me, it's sour grapes with Red Bull I've really gone off them as a team (apart from Webber). Sebastian Vettel is gradually turning into Michael Schumacher
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#1265 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Quote:
The FIA did know about the test, but they didn't know the other teams hadn't been informed by Pirelli or offered the chance to participate. It's Pirelli's responsibility to do that, though really the FIA should have done something about it anyway.
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#1266 |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Mid Kent
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Would you not be more comfortable posting on a forum in your native language, whatever that is?
Looks like it might be the same as Officer Crabtree in 'Allo 'Allo. |
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#1267 |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
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No FIA did not know about the test.
It was too big a breach of rules without a nod happening somewhere. |
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#1268 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Quote:
I thought Eddie Jordan said that the testing of Pirelli tyreswas okay because Mercedes weren't the front runners in the Formula 1.
If you ask me, it's sour grapes with Red Bull I've really gone off them as a team (apart from Webber). Sebastian Vettel is gradually turning into Michael Schumacher ![]() |
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#1269 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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No FIA did not know about the test. Pirrel only discussed the possibility they did not say if they were doing it, when they were doing it or who they were doing it with.
And it's in Pirelli's contract that they can do it, and the FIA knew that. And it is Pirelli, not 'Pirrel', it's not that hard to spell... Quote:
Explain how it is sour grapes? The Sporting Regs 22.1 state you cannot do in season testing. I would suggest he has a good reason to be upset!
And Ferrari have already provided a car for Pirelli tests this year, the only difference being Pirelli didn't ask for their current car, so they didn't provide it. In this case they specifically wanted a current car that was hard on its tyres as the whole point of the test was to create more durable tyres, which is why they went to Mercedes. |
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#1270 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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Would you not be more comfortable posting on a forum in your native language, whatever that is?
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#1271 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,658
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You'd have to be incredibly naive to think the FIA didn't know about it, a tyre test is far too big a thing to go unnoticed, especially as it was done at a Grand Prix circuit immediately after a Grand Prix itself! .
Pirell have tried to justify using Mercedes because they have had the most problems. They have had the most problems because they other heat the tyres. Mercedes run the tyres 20 °C higher than the other teams. This actually means any data gathered is mercedes specific and not applicable to the rest of the grid. Any tyre developments from this test must help mercedes and hurt almost all the other teams. So Pirell's own justification only underlines why this is corrupt and cheating. |
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#1272 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Quote:
Obviously someone OK'd it,
It was too big a breach of rules without a nod happening somewhere. |
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#1273 |
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Scotland
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Interesting article http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns25525.html Quote:
Having conducted an investigation after Sunday's race, the FIA confirmed it knew Pirelli wanted to do the test, but only gave a conditional green light in the event "every team is offered the opportunity" to also test
Quote:
Mercedes' Niki Lauda, however, told Brazil's O Estado de S.Paulo that the FIA "sent a delegate" to the test, and that Charlie Whiting and Bernie Ecclestone knew about it as well
Quote:
A Pirelli spokesman said Ferrari was invited to test and turned down the offer, while Dr Helmut Marko said a Red Bull engineer had also been "informally" asked. It is rumoured that Red Bull and Ferrari both said no because they believed the test would have to be done with a two-year old car. Indeed, between Bahrain and China, a Pirelli tyre test took place with a 2010 Ferrari Quote:
Christian Horner confirmed that Red Bull was asked by Pirelli. "We declined," he said, "because we are of the opinion that such a test violates the regulations."
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#1274 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Well the FIA didn't know and have said they didn't know.
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#1275 |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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I can't see how Merc' should be responsible for ensuring that every other team in the paddock has been given the same opportunity. At worst, they're an unwitting accomplice in Pirelli's actions. What are the FIA going to do? Give Pirelli a 3 race ban and force the teams to run on Colway remoulds for a couple of months? |
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