here you go .. from 35mins onward

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRzXgDz56oM

she says "like some (gestures with arms) ... in other words .... monkey ... but lovely and he looked so fit"

I think I got "little, almost monkey" from it. Others may hear differently though, she's quite hard to make out.

Times have changed Malliday

We have progressed, and learned that tolerance and respect for others ... even at the expense of foregoing a few words and phrases ... is pretty wonderful, and embraces 'equality' in it's truest sense

I really hope I'm in not in a 'twisted minority' in thinking that

Malliday,

I think I love you! What an absolutely cracking rant

Will LOL if David (when he comes out) finds it funny and not offensive

That will put an end to the PC people on this matter

I think true equality would mean prosecuting anyone who uses the term as a form of racial abuse as opposed to omitting the word from our language and labelling it as a racist term - this can't happen. Here are the many definitions of the word monkey
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?word=monkey we can't omit them all from language because, of the 8 listed definitions, not one of them is racist and each are perfectly acceptable to use in everyday english language.

On another level, take this example...
In Britain, there is a well known kids play chain called Cheeky Monkeys, are they racist? Should black people refrain from bringing their children there because their children could be described as cheeky monkeys? Like Malliday said, it's about common sense. If someone doesn't have racist intentions in using the term then why shouldn't they use it?

I dont watch the after show but its clear she said it.... so what?
7 pages on this, equals a dull IAC this year

You make a very sensible point, but people just like to go on about this sort of stuff. I don't know why

I often say to my fella that he looks like a monkey when he crawls out if bed first thing in the morning

I don't really understand the 'PC' attack

When I was a kid, my old ma loved the Black and White Minstrel show on a Saturday night ( loved the old musical songs, my mother did )

Later, although still quite young, I remember laughing at the sit-com, 'love Thy Neighbour' ( with a child's unquestioning eye )

I'm so glad my own children would look at those old shows with a jaw dropped look of disbelief

We have moved on ... it was right that we did

Rosemary made an offensive remark tonight, that wouldn't have been seen as offensive, in the past

That's just the way it is, and even if David, himself, makes light of it, if he chooses, it won't change that fact

Sorry hisdogspot but I think what yourself and Malloday have said outlines quite succinctly the difference between being able to & unable to think rationally and objectively.

There is nothing wonderful about blacklisting language and looking down upon people who use a term innocently and clearly without any intent.

In fact I would say that it is in fact tragic if we have to blacklist language as not to come across as racist.


If someone is unable to differentiate between a term of affection or endearment and a racist slur, or if a term of affection or endearment can be muddled as a racist slur, then something is really, really wrong.

These are complete and total opposites.

This thread is absolutely ridiculous.

No she didn't.

And try as some might, one cannot make it so.

I'm sure you're right Fizix

Where racism, in any form, is concerned, however unintentional, I find it is quite beyond me to be 'objective'

I'll go find a more light hearted thread now

if she said gorilla or ape - maybe there could be a case

I think that being intolerant of racism and using words in their correct context can and do go hand in hand. This generation should not be judged, penalised or labelled for the disgusting behaviour of previous generations, seemingly including your own.

That is a very idealistic and somewhat naive viewpoint. The fact is that words do pick up negative connotations over time, most of the words used as racial slurs against black people were not originally negative, they became negative by association. I'm sure even you would balk at using the 'N' word, regardless of it's former innocence.

The word 'monkey' has been widely used as a racial slur against black people for many years and that gives the word negative connotations when used to describe the physical appearance of a black person. most people would regard it as being inappropriate to describe a black person as looking like a monkey regardless of their body type or musculature due to these negative connotations. There is also a clear difference between calling someone a 'cheeky monkey' as a term of endearment and saying they physically look like a monkey.

I am absolutely sure Rosemary in no way intended her comment to be offensive and don't for a minute think that she is racist, but it was a poor choice of words.

Hopefully this doesn't get blown out of proportion, ideally someone will politely explain to Rosemary that it wasn't the best word to use to describe David and that's the last we hear of it.

As a twenty six year old, I'd guess that your own parents are about my age ... ask them about the kind of language they were routinely exposed to in their childhood

It wasn't about being 'disgusting' it was about what was accepted as 'normal' in that time

Tonight, Rosemary used language ... and used it in a way that belonged in that bygone age

Now I really am moving away from this thread ... it's worrying me

Still awaiting an apology, :yawn:

It did run through my head, 'careful about calling him a monkey' when she said it but I wasn't expecting a big debate about it

Considering she was heaping praise on him and the monkey simile clearly referred to his physique I really hope there is nothing more of this :/

You clearly didn't understand my post at all.

If you consider paranoid censorship, irrationality and presumption of guilt as progression then I despair at what sort of world we're creating for ourselves.

The twisted minority are those that use these words as abuse. They are the ones whose use of what are otherwise simple, descriptive terms should be prohibited.

The innocent use of language by the liberal, egalitarian, colourblind majority should not be prohibited on account of the insistence of a minority of fools in using the English language to abuse and stereotype.

True tolerance and respect for others includes appreciating the meaning of what somebody says and acknowledging its context and intent; not just assuming that somebody means offence and judging them according to the standards you would attribute to the lowest form of scum in our society.

"Foregoing a few words and phrases" is the exact opposite of equality. It's censorship. It's oppression. It's undemocratic.

If we are truly pursuing equality then we condemn those that use such terms maliciously. We do not censor those that are entirely innocent. That's not how society works.

It depresses me that so many people so willingly accept their freedom being curtailed. Particularly their use of language.

It's shocking how many people subserviently accept that their use of a single word, or a phrase, entirely innocently is now decreed outlawed.

These people need to stop and ask themselves why they're so blindly accepting of the curtailment of their freedom.

How anyone can mistake this for anything other than playfull banter should not watch tv after the water shed, what's next ant and dec being sexist?

Ver Ver Sexist beasts

No-one is suggesting we outlaw the word 'monkey', it's just that it could be offensive when used to describe the physical appearance of a black person, even if it was not intended to cause offence.

It's nothing to do with curtailing freedom, it is just good manners not to use a word to describe someone that they are liable to find offensive.

I call my partners son a cheeky monkey can that be classed as insulting?

Describing someone as being a cheeky monkey is different from saying that they look like a monkey. It's not the word 'monkey' that's the issue, it is using it to describe the appearance of a black person.

I'm sure if you had grown up with the term being used as a racial slur against you then you would be more liable to find the term offensive when it was used to describe you, even if the intent was innocent.