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Madonna Appreciation Thread (Part 8)


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Old 04-08-2013, 10:22
little-monster
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i just expected more from britney as an actress, considering her background. whereas, rihanna and madonna had no acting experience when they first made movies.

the whole "glitter" project was a complete disaster and like you say, even the music didn't perform well. we also shouldn't forget janet jackson's film début "poetic justice". while it was no box office flop, her role did earn her a "golden raspberry" and the critics did dub it "pathetic justice".

its true madonna did have some film successes, but the lows were more widely reported and her reputation as an actress has always been pretty poor unfortunately.
I haven't seen that film with Janet Jackson, but she is a very good actress and believe it or not, all her films have been finanacial successes. Her best films have been the ones she did with Tyler Perry.
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Old 04-08-2013, 13:42
gpk
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I haven't seen that film with Janet Jackson, but she is a very good actress and believe it or not, all her films have been finanacial successes. Her best films have been the ones she did with Tyler Perry.
"poetic justice" is horrendous and her acting was atrocious on that first film outing, but like i wrote, the film was no flop. what i will say though is that over time her acting improved somewhat and she chose her roles very carefully. she also made sure she was surrounded with talented people on and off screen on each movie. you are quite correct though, all her films have been successful to varying degrees.
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Old 04-08-2013, 14:09
gpk
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She's the most successful and famous female recording artist in modern music history?
She slept with Sean Penn and Warren Beatty?

I'm not trying to knock her or anything, but she really struggled to get funding for W.E. and lost out on actors like Ewan McGregor. The film ended up costing ~$15m and made a pitiful amount at the box office, along with receiving 13% on RT. I'd be very surprised if anyone like Harvey Weinstein payed any attention again.
the first question is obviously the correct answer, while the second question is completely irrelevant and both relationships were over twenty years ago. her status within the entertainment industry is unquestionable.

w.e. was a risky project for any would be investors. not only was madonna at the helm as director, she co-wrote the script and the script was the film's eventual downfall. however, if she should decide to direct a movie based on a successful book with the screenplay written by someone successful in that field, that would be a very different scenario and investment might be more forthcoming.
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Old 04-08-2013, 15:15
little-monster
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"poetic justice" is horrendous and her acting was atrocious on that first film outing, but like i wrote, the film was no flop. what i will say though is that over time her acting improved somewhat and she chose her roles very carefully. she also made sure she was surrounded with talented people on and off scene on each movie. you are quite correct though, all her films have been successful to varying degrees.
Hmm interesting

I am eager to see which today's popstars head into acting and how well they do.

Katy perry is doing well doing voice acting forn The Smurfs franchise. and Lady gaga has a small role in Machete Kills.
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Old 04-08-2013, 16:37
Gigi4
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I don't know if people classify her as a pop star, but I think the best acting performance by a singer is Courtney Love in the People v. Larry Flynt. She was in a few other movies after that but none of them were very good or lived up to the promise of Larry Flynt. For singers, sometimes they can have one good movie but for some reason it's hard to sustain that over a long period of time and really have a great acting career.
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Old 04-08-2013, 17:42
Ciccone Youth
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the first question is obviously the correct answer, while the second question is completely irrelevant and both relationships were over twenty years ago. her status within the entertainment industry is unquestionable.
Firstly, Sean Penn is the only reason why she got any Hollywood roles in the first place.
Secondly, I never said ''entertainment industry'', I said ''Hollywood'', which is a very different thing.

w.e. was a risky project for any would be investors. not only was madonna at the helm as director, she co-wrote the script and the script was the film's eventual downfall. however, if she should decide to direct a movie based on a successful book with the screenplay written by someone successful in that field, that would be a very different scenario and investment might be more forthcoming.
It doesn't matter that Madonna did everything in W.E. Madonna's been considered poison in Hollywood for years - Filth & Wisdom was indie, Arthur & The Invisibles was a vocal role with a lot of other famous people, Die Another Day was only because she did the song, Swept Away was because Guy was super-hot at the time, and if you've read Rupert Everett's first memoir you'll know he practically had to beg to get her onto The Next Best Thing, which then bombed and ended his Hollywood career.

The last time Madonna had ANY clout in Hollywood was Evita - 16 years ago.
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Old 04-08-2013, 17:46
Ciccone Youth
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I don't know if people classify her as a pop star, but I think the best acting performance by a singer is Courtney Love in the People v. Larry Flynt.
Yep, either that or Bjork in ''Dancer In The Dark'', or Cher in ''Silkwood'' or ''The Witches of Eastwick''.
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Old 04-08-2013, 17:51
Gigi4
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Firstly, Sean Penn is the only reason why she got any Hollywood roles in the first place.
Secondly, I never said ''entertainment industry'', I said ''Hollywood'', which is a very different thing.
I don't think Sean Penn had anything to do with her getting roles. She got roles because her videos were almost like films and producers thought if she was good in videos, she could be successful in films. Actually, some of her best acting is in her videos like Bad Girl. But for some reason when she has to talk rather than sing, her acting isn't as good. I find it kind of sexist to say she only got roles because of a man.
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Old 04-08-2013, 18:02
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Firstly, Sean Penn is the only reason why she got any Hollywood roles in the first place.
Aw, that's a bit harsh don't you think?

I know she's not that hot an actress but it's unfair to say that!
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Old 04-08-2013, 18:27
Ciccone Youth
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I don't think Sean Penn had anything to do with her getting roles. She got roles because her videos were almost like films and producers thought if she was good in videos, she could be successful in films. Actually, some of her best acting is in her videos like Bad Girl. But for some reason when she has to talk rather than sing, her acting isn't as good. I find it kind of sexist to say she only got roles because of a man.
But it's actually true!

She had absolutely no ties to Hollywood at all, and the only reason she forged any was by social climbing when she was with Sean, meeting various producers and actors (such as her later beau, Warren Beatty).

I'm not being harsh or sexist, I'm just telling the truth. I'm not criticizing her for it either, she always knew how to network and market herself. That's not an insult - I admire how smart she was and how she acted on the situation and its opportunities.
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Old 04-08-2013, 19:09
gpk
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Firstly, Sean Penn is the only reason why she got any Hollywood roles in the first place.
Secondly, I never said ''entertainment industry'', I said ''Hollywood'', which is a very different thing.
the movie business is part of the entertainment industry, is it not? i said the entertainment industry, because her status is unquestionable overall in that industry. that was in response to your throwaway comment about her reputation being "beyond pathetic" in hollywood, which is not strictly true considering her connections. we can continue to dissect her entire movie career and her long expired personal relationships to quantity your negative view if you wish, but lets not forget this is suppose to be an appreciation thread.
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Old 04-08-2013, 19:17
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Madonna's movie career nothing to do with Sean Penn. By 1984 Madonna was fast becoming one of the most famous women in the world. Her first movie was a screwball comedy made just for her to cash in on this. BEFORE she even met Sean Penn. That's what kicked started it all. Yes they starred together in her second main role but everything else was to cash in on for fame. Who's That Girl is the best example of this. It was crap and only worked because it was Madonna.
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Old 04-08-2013, 19:26
Gigi4
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Madonna's movie career nothing to do with Sean Penn. By 1984 Madonna was fast becoming one of the most famous women in the world. Her first movie was a screwball comedy made just for her to cash in on this. BEFORE she even met Sean Penn. That's what kicked started it all.
Yes, I think Desperately Seeking Susan was started before she met Sean Penn. Who's that Girl was made to cash in on the success of Susan. Her early movies were nothing like the more serious fare Sean Penn was doing.
I've always thought Madonna has a great sense of humour. I think she made a mistake going from comedic films to trying to do more serious stuff. This new book she wants to make a film of seems also to be quite serious, although I'm sure it's great. I would like to see her try her hand at directing something less serious, but with more of a sense of humour. I think that would bring out the best in her.
Whatever you think of her movie career, you have to give her credit for not giving up no matter what people say. Far too many people have the opposite problem, they give up whenever even a minor obstacle comes up. I think it was Guy Ritchie who said she was a manifestor. She finds a way to make things happen. She just doesn't talk about doing things, she does them. She follows her dreams no matter how impossible they may seem. So many people talk about doing stuff, but never get anything done or completed, even other celebrities. But she does it! She's inspiring in that way.
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Old 04-08-2013, 19:26
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I appreciate Madonna's acting career yes there could've been some better roles & i don't like all of the movies she made but still i enjoy them. Shes a good actress imo & i hope she has 1 or 2 tricks up her sleeve for a new role but if shes comfortable writing & directing i respect that. I loved W.E
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Old 04-08-2013, 20:07
little-monster
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Yep, either that or Bjork in ''Dancer In The Dark'', or Cher in ''Silkwood'' or ''The Witches of Eastwick''.
Love Bjork in that film

Oh and i love Jennifer Hudson in Dreamgirls.


I really really liked W/E. It was a lovely story about a famous controversial couple. Sadly, because Madonna did it, no one battled an eyelid. If anyone else had done it, it would of been a big hit and likely won a few oscars. Madonna pulled a fantastic performance out of Andrew Riseborough.
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Old 04-08-2013, 20:50
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Love Bjork in that film

Oh and i love Jennifer Hudson in Dreamgirls.


I really really liked W/E. It was a lovely story about a famous controversial couple. Sadly, because Madonna did it, no one battled an eyelid. If anyone else had done it, it would of been a big hit and likely won a few oscars. Madonna pulled a fantastic performance out of Andrew Riseborough.
Andrea Riseborough is the best actress of her generation and I sincerely hope the performance of W.E doesn't effect her future.

I love this picture of her and Madonna

http://salmaglamour.files.wordpress....seborough1.jpg
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Old 04-08-2013, 21:36
Ciccone Youth
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the movie business is meant to be entertainment, is it not? i said the entertainment industry, because her status is unquestionable overall in that industry. that was in response to your throwaway comment about her reputation being "beyond pathetic" in hollywood, which is not strictly true considering her connections. we can continue to dissect her entire movie career and her long expired personal relationships to quantity your negative view if you wish, but lets not forget this is suppose to be an appreciation thread.

I'm not forgetting this is an appreciation thread. Don't start being immature, please.

My point was, Madonna is box office poison (can we agree on that at least?) and she does not have a good reputation in Hollywood due to a long series of mostly critical flops and commercial failures.

Hollywood is not the same as the entertainment industry, because Hollywood is strictly to do with films. She receives respect because of her groundbreaking and boundary-pushing music and performance art, not her derided film career. A derided film career which only began in Hollywood because of her relationship with Sean Penn and relocation to LA because of that relationship.

And that's all I have to say on the matter.

Madonna's movie career nothing to do with Sean Penn. By 1984 Madonna was fast becoming one of the most famous women in the world. Her first movie was a screwball comedy made just for her to cash in on this. BEFORE she even met Sean Penn. That's what kicked started it all. Yes they starred together in her second main role but everything else was to cash in on for fame. Who's That Girl is the best example of this. It was crap and only worked because it was Madonna.
Desperately Seeking Susan was made by an independent film studio, it wasn't a Hollywood production. Believe it or not, that does actually make a big difference.

Andrea Riseborough is the best actress of her generation and I sincerely hope the performance of W.E doesn't effect her future.

I love this picture of her and Madonna

http://salmaglamour.files.wordpress....seborough1.jpg
I love that shoot, this is my favourite picture of them both;

Beautiful
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Old 04-08-2013, 21:44
Poison_Ivan
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Ciccone Youth i disagree with a lot you have been putting. Just my opinion & i have no interest in debating anything. You have your opinion & that's your prerogative
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Old 04-08-2013, 21:53
gpk
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I'm not forgetting this is an appreciation thread. Don't start being immature, please.
so you're going to continue to justify your original statement not to lose face and you lecture me about being immature? the film business is part of the entertainment industry, an industry that madonna is clearly a long standing superstar. how can you suggest that the entertainment industry is separate to the film industry, when companies like sony/universal clearly produce entertainment across different mediums?
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Old 04-08-2013, 22:29
Ciccone Youth
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so you're going to continue to justify your original statement not to lose face and you lecture me about being immature? the film business is part of the entertainment industry, an industry that madonna is clearly a long standing superstar. how can you suggest that the entertainment industry is separate to the film industry, when companies like sony/universal clearly produce entertainment across different mediums?
Why can't you separate Hollywood and the entertainment industry? Madonna's one of the biggest stars in the world, NOT in Hollywood, not in the world of film. Her film career is a mess. Why is that so hard to swallow?

I didn't ''lecture'' you, that was one (justified) line, because you were bringing the fact that this is an appreciation thread into it, as if I can't criticize parts of Madonna's career as a fan? Are we not allowed to do that at all?
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Old 04-08-2013, 22:55
gpk
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Why can't you separate Hollywood and the entertainment industry? Madonna's one of the biggest stars in the world, NOT in Hollywood, not in the world of film. Her film career is a mess. Why is that so hard to swallow?

I didn't ''lecture'' you, that was one (justified) line, because you were bringing the fact that this is an appreciation thread into it, as if I can't criticize parts of Madonna's career as a fan? Are we not allowed to do that at all?
hollywood is part of the entertainment industry though, in the same way music is also part of the entertainment industry. the two mediums are often side by side with similtamilious soundtrack and film releases all distributed by the same company. if by hollywood you mean the stuffy critics who panned her every move in film, then yes, that is separate. the reality is though that hollywood is run by big media companies and madonna has many connections within the media, even her manager has dabbled in film.

no one could have been more negative than me in my initial post when you posted the speculation about her possibly working on another film, but surely after almost two pages, this would be a good point to move on. when i wrote "lets not forget", i was being inclusive of myself, but of course i did also include you in that observation.

maybe, its a personal thing and i obviously don't make the rules, but i always feel like the appreciation threads are a "safe haven" away from the usual negativity in other threads. the only rule that really matters in terms of posting in appreciation threads here is that posts must be "constructive and positive messages". for the last couple of pages i don't think that has been adhered to in all honesty.
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Old 04-08-2013, 23:10
Ciccone Youth
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hollywood is part of the entertainment industry though, in the same way music is also part of the entertainment industry. the two mediums are often side by side with similtamilious soundtrack and film releases all distributed by the same company. if by hollywood you mean the stuffy critics who panned her every move in film, then yes, that is separate. the reality is though that hollywood is run by big media companies and madonna has many connections within the media, even her manager has dabbled in film.

no one could have been more negative than me in my initial post when you posted the speculation about her possibly working on another film, but surely after almost two pages, this would be a good point to move on. when i wrote "lets not forget", i was being inclusive of myself, but of course i did also include you in that observation.

maybe, its a personal thing and i obviously don't make the rules, but i always feel like the appreciation threads are a "safe haven" away from the usual negativity in other threads. the only rule that really matters in terms of posting in appreciation threads here is that posts must be "constructive and positive messages". for the last couple of pages i don't think that has been adhered to in all honesty.
OK, I guess we have to agree to disagree on Madonna's reputation in Hollywood.

And fair point about the App thread, but I think not allowing criticism from fan-based discussion kills a lot of points that could be raised about her, and would eventually lead to insipid posts about nothing.
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Old 04-08-2013, 23:21
Gigi4
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OK, I guess we have to agree to disagree on Madonna's reputation in Hollywood.

And fair point about the App thread, but I think not allowing criticism from fan-based discussion kills a lot of points that could be raised about her, and would eventually lead to insipid posts about nothing.
An Appreciation thread is not the only place you can talk about an artist. You can start a thread in the general music section or even the film section since we are talking her films here if you want to be more critical and debate things.

I don't quite understand why you are talking about movies as just being Hollywood. I thought we were talking about singers in movies in general, not just Hollywood films. Bjork for example who was mentioned in this thread was not in a Hollywood film, but an international film. More and more Hollywood has become irrelevant to films at least of quality. A lot of the films that have won Oscars recently aren't Hollywood films, but indie films and even UK films. Hollywood has become more and more focused on action films which don't have that many roles for women whether they are singers or not. It's not like the 50's where studio films dominated the movie landscape. Most of my favourite movies of recent years are US indie films or UK films. I can't really think of the last Hollywood studio film I thought was amazing.
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Old 04-08-2013, 23:31
gpk
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OK, I guess we have to agree to disagree on Madonna's reputation in Hollywood.

And fair point about the App thread, but I think not allowing criticism from fan-based discussion kills a lot of points that could be raised about her, and would eventually lead to insipid posts about nothing.
we will have to do that.

it doesn't have to be like that and i can hardly talk without including myself. criticism is important in discussion, i quite agree, but the discussion became negative in places and i felt points were exaggerated. again, something that i take on board myself too.
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Old 06-08-2013, 22:50
Gigi4
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Here's an interesting article ranking Madonna's 12 albums from worst to first.
http://www.metroweekly.com/soundwave...12-albums.html
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