I'd never watched a single episode of Emmerdale with Lisa in, or in fact anything with her in as far as I remember. Yet she's my favourite in the competition. So no, it isn't 'simples'.

I think you are spot on icequeen. Things are being said to other contestants which would never be put to Lisa. Like when Darcey told Kimberley to do a few more sit-ups.

We like it when we can spot in advance mistakes which will be picked up by the judges, but when we saw Lisa's errors last night they were strangely silent. It's almost like the judges are scared of her.

True, Brucie would make a great Widow Twankey.

She isn't being overmarked - her scores (which aren't that high) reflect what she and Robin deliver. No one is skirting around her weight - it's obvious for all to see and she carries it well.

There's no hatred, she's just a rubbish dancer who the judges overmark because they are scared to say she's too fat to dance.

You honestly would have given an 8 to her QS last night? (Three judges did). In spite of: sections at the bottom left of the floor and at top right where she got lost on steps; gapping throughout; endless bobbing up and down out of sync with Robin; poor posture; heavy-footedness? In your mind's eye, replace her with Nicky doing the exact same routine with the exact same issues and then fast-forward to the judges' critique and scoring

A rubbish dancer? A 'rubbish' dancer would be someone who has very bad timing, always messes up their footwork, has no sense of rhythm, can't perform etc. So unless I have no idea what any of those things are, Lisa isn't a rubbish dancer.

Can you dance, then? If not, who's the rubbish dancer now?

Unlike JS. Lisa does seem to try hard to do the moves and brings a lot of energy to the floor and some acting ability. She also deserves credit for stretching her physical capacity - more than someone like Louis who could tumble around the floor all day doing fewer dance moves without breaking a sweat. The problem is that whoever they give low marks to, or is at the bottom of the leaderboard, picks up some votes from the anarchist vote. Having someone who tries hard and succeeds in other ways while being the worst dancer confuses the point that they are the worst dancer.

All of which have been evident in Lisa's dances - she messed up her footwork and lost timing in her quickstep (amongst many, many other flaws) and her 'performances' are always restricted to jazz hands and gurning.

I feel like I'm just going round in circles trying to explain my point. There's no way that you can't say Lisa can't perform, and even the judges have said that her timing has been impeccable on occasions (admittedly, not in the Quickstep). She definitely has a sense of rhythm, too, so I'm not sure why you said that.

I'm interested about the 'many, many other flaws'. Unless you're just trying to make up excuses for the fact that you just don't like her(/the judges' scoring of her).

Like I said. Going round in circles.

The hatred of Lisa on this board...

...is not hatred but resentment

It's probably based on people's sense of good dance being trampled on by Lisa, and their sense of fair play being trampled on by the judges.

I don't hate Lisa but last night (Sat. 1/12/12),she quite blatantly lost it but the judges seemed prepared to overlook this to a great extent.

This leeway appears not to be extended to other competitors.

She was not good last night. However it is gross exaggeration to say that all of her "perfromances" are restricted to "jazz hands" and "gurning".
Neither of these were evident in her Viennese Waltz, Tango, Samba nor Rumba. She did a pretty good job at dancing all of these.
I am not one of these who want Lisa to win but I do think that she is being singled out for a lot of unfair criticism.
She finished 5th on the leaderboard which is where she belonged last night.

I do like her and I have enjoyed her performances. I do think she is being over marked though and I feel this might be to avoid any accusations of bullying or attacking the "big girl". I am sure Lisa would want to receive her marks based on her ability and performance and not from some misplaced pity by the judges. The girl can move.

I think the marks are about right.

BiB - No. She really, really didn't.

And she belonged 6th on the leaderboard last night. And much of any "unfair criticism" is probably to counteract the apparent absence of "fair criticism" from the judges.

I think the word "resentment" towards Lisa as mentioned above is about right. It is that rather than hatred.

Timing and syncing with Robin were off throughout, particularly in the cringeworthy final sequence (seriously, the jumping onto the sofa - WTF?!). She wasn't keeping up with him at all and her kicks just looked sloppy as she wasn't lifting her feet as high as she should. There were moments where she forgot what she was meant to do. She lost timing. People better versed in dance then me on these boards also say that the spins were clumsy, she wasn't closing her feet and there weren't any heel leads. Posture wasn't good. I'm not saying it was as bad as anything Widdecombe would produce, but it was still a very poor routine (particularly considering the point of the competition it was performed in), certainly not worthy of the marks it received, and I think all the problems it had would count as "many, many".

And wherever possible she just goes for "fun, fun, fun". Winners have always had diversity in their showmanship - they can perform a dance whether it requires fun, sexiness, elegance or drama (compare Tom's quickstep, tango and foxtrot, or Kara's paso, charleston and rumba - all dances with a very different performance). I honestly don't think that whenever she has a dance that doesn't allow for the fun angle at all (e.g. the rumba last week) she can sell it particularly well. She has one style of performance she does well, fair enough, and I'll admit my comments were probably a bit too harsh - but she doesn't have diversity.

I can dance, actually. I'm not a professional or even a good amateur, but I have a sense of rhythm and know the technique of the dances. And childish 'can you dance' comments aren't going to get your arguments anywhere.

Lisa has displayed many of the things you mention - her timing last night was completely off, her footwork was never correct - I've posted before about everything she didn't do last night that she was supposed to. She clearly doesn't have much of a sense of rhythm as her rise and fall was completely off last night. And pasting a huge cheesy grin on your face is not performing - she didn't act her rumba at all, she never has good posture and she never finishes off lines with either her hands or her feet. All of which are required for a good ballroom/Latin dance performance.


See above.

It's not lLisa I hate, it's her lack of ability in learning to dance, and the unfairness of the marking I hate.
Jazz hands, wobbling and gurning do not a dancer make.

Also, I don't think Lisa deserves to win. Heck, I don't even want her to win. There are far better dancers that should win over her. But I still support her and Robin and want them to do well, so I think it's a bit of a shame that people are taking this whole business so seriously (especially the 'elephant'-esque comments) when she won't win anyway. You may as well enjoy her being here, as it isn't as if she'll eliminate any dancers better than she is.

I think I'll stop now before I exhaust myself.

I never asked if you could dance or not, it was merely a question I was asking Jayinthegarden. Okay, I could have put it a little nicer/politer/'less childish' or whatever you'd like to call it. But my point still remains.

(like I said, I'll stop now and leave you to discuss the very... constructive... thing that you're discussing here)

That's really my problem, I'm not convinced she'll go out before that, so I do fear that she will knock out better dancers (never mind that as far as I'm concerned she already has!). I have no desire to see her in the final.


Ah sorry, I thought it was a general question! My apologies

To be fair let's face it, doctors would describe her as being "morbidly obese."
If a few "elephant" jibes (what's wrong with elephants?) encourages her to do something about her weight, then it can't be that bad.

But she seems very happy being a big girl. She has stated she isn't doing this to lose weight. Shes clearly happy and fit the way she flies around the dancefloor so I feel comments like yours are very uncalled for.

She can dance, but is being very Overmarked by the panel.

Her quickstep was appalling last night. Timing out from the side by side bit at the beginning, completely lost the routine in at least two different places, and a gap between her and robin big enough to drive a double decker through.

No way did it deserve 8s - especially at this stage of the competition. Richard was pilloried for forgetting his routine, Lisa was heped with praise.

I don't hate Lisa, she's fun and bubbly, but I hate the way he is being favoured by the judges.