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USA are just as nationalised as we are!! |
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#26 |
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
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In fact Americans are far more inclined to support a countryman,
"Support the stars and stripes" "Stick with uncle sam" "be good Americans" we Brits are less patriotic or less inclined to vote purely based on Nationality. However Charlie won because she got most votes - I think that some Americans in UK are likely to have thrown some votes Ash's way because they wanted to support their own. People have lots of reasons why they vote for people, if they are funny or not (humour being subjective), if they are good looking, if they share a similar view or belief, if they are the enemy of somebody the vote dislikes and so on. If nationality or even region comes in to it, so what? Did Georgies vote for Joe McEldry? I know Essex loves Olly Murs. Its a lot of fuss made by people who are miffed because a person they don't like beat someone they did like on a TV show. The contestants however all seem quite happy with the outcome. ![]() Its trivial, fancy using something as sinister as xenophobia to score points on a forum. Where did you get... "Support the stars and stripes" "Stick with uncle sam" "be good Americans" ??? I've never heard these sayings that you claim American's say.. Did you pull that out of your bum or what? I think that either Ashley or David should have won.. Although I did like Charlie - I just didn't think she'd done as much as David and Ashley... I suspect that sweet little Kiki is what brought it home for Charlie rather than Ashley... Even Charlie and Charlie's mom - admit that in a recent article.. |
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#27 |
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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it's funny (and sad) when people proudly claim to know something about other cultures having never lived there. that mentality is so arrogant and ignorant it hurts me to read it.
generalising about americans is like me going on to a forum and saying 'english people are all dole scroungers who get pregnant in their teens and roam around council flats all day with their pitbulls waiting for the next binge drinking session.' if you seriously think all americans are blindly patriotic you are wrong. the counter-culture started in the late 60's and most intelligent americans question authority rather than bow down to it. no one talks about 'uncle sam' etc. we JOKE about those types of people. watch 'family guy' and 'south park' and see what americans think of jingoistic patriotism! the xenophobia here is really painful to read. i expected more intelligence. (apologies to the many nice and open-minded forumites however!) Brilliant response! |
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#28 |
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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Think they were going for 'nationalistic' tbh.
I thought that too. |
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#29 |
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Join Date: Jul 2002
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"Nationalistic" is just a polite way of saying "Xenophobic" anyway.
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#30 |
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Join Date: Apr 2002
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exactly. also, as an american myself, i will tell you americans genuinely are very fond of the english. america is traditionally a meting pot of cultures while, here, perhaps because you are an island race, you seem suspicious and resentful of 'outsiders'.
also, as the above poster says, maybe those british contestants lost because they weren't good enough. who says it has anything to do with americans not voting for them because they're british! that is nonsense! |
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#31 |
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Radiofree has a fair point when it comes to the East/West coasts of America.
But his description is way off when it comes to the redneck, Tea Party supporting vast swathes of the middle bit. |
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#32 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,270
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Where did you get... "Support the stars and stripes"
"Stick with uncle sam" "be good Americans" ??? I've never heard these sayings that you claim American's say.. Did you pull that out of your bum or what? So are YOU (in this guise) saying that Americans are not generally patriotic? Quote:
"Nationalistic" is just a polite way of saying "Xenophobic" anyway.
Supporting a person based on nationality would be patriotism, xenophobia is something entirely different, as I'm sure you know really. |
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#33 |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Insulting me? It's not my fault if you aren't as informed as I am.
So are YOU (in this guise) saying that Americans are not generally patriotic? No its isn't, you're making silly remarks about something serious. Supporting a person based on nationality would be patriotism, xenophobia is something entirely different, as I'm sure you know really. I would like to ask you, honestly, how much time have you actually spent in America and how many Americans do you actually know? And TV and the internet do not count because if your views are based on either of those things you are grossly out of whack. I've never heard those saying from Americans, even from the more patriotic ones. Also I would say we are far worse with our attitudes to the outside world and people from other countries than they are about us. Firstly... Patriotism != Xenophobic Xenophobic != Jingoism Secondly... Where patriotism is concerned Americans are varied and it amounts to generally supporting your country or believing in your country. In the sense of respecting the flag and the constitution. That is where I've found the bulk of American patriotism to be; rather than superiority. Foreign policy is another thing entirely and is a very complex issue. Americans and the outside world and them being insular is also quite a complex issue. While it's true that most Americans do not hold a passport and have limited exposure to the world outside their borders the driving factor behind this is scale and distance rather than attitude. America cannot be compared to say the UK, France, Germany or Spain. It would be more accurate to compare America with Europe. It's a vast place with many states, each with their own little cultures. You can't compare an American in New York to an American in San Francisco, totally different cultures and with it, attitudes. Also to leave America is expensive; how many Brits can afford to hop on an aeroplane and take a holiday in America? The same works in reverse. We consider ourselves traveled because we take a couple of hours on a plane to another European country, who are no more than a couple of hours out from our timezone, but we aren't actually traveling a great distance. Americans do that too, but a couple of hours on a plane in America takes you to another state, to Canada, Mexico or into the Caribbean. For an American on the east coast to visit the west coast is a far greater distance and is traveling much further than most British people do. If you go to America you will get a lot of "would love to visit Europe" but if you ask as to why you will get a "do you know how much that would cost". Many Americans travel around America and some to places like Canada, Mexico, Hawaii (I know its a state but its a distance) and the Caribbean. Also Americans generally aren't really xenophobic, xenophobia is being suspicious of those from the outside; I've never been treat with anything other than polite and welcoming attitudes in America. Of course there are states and people in America who are xenophobic, in the same way as we have xenophobic people and regions where people are considered "hicks". Thats true of most countries. I think I'm done now. |
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#34 |
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
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That's very deluded. The US may have traditionally been a melting pot but that accepting nature of outsiders is long gone. It is now one of the most insular countries in the world as the hostility to Mexicans (and the laws some states have passed that victimise hispanics) highlights
The majority of LEGAL immigrants from Mexico are lovely people and comprise of a large percentage of our population in the south.. They're hard workers, have delicious food and are great assets to this country.. The ILLEGAL immigrants are a big problem especially the ones who are part of cartels.. Do you live here? Do you live near the border? Do you travel to Mexico? If not, then you just have no idea what you're talking about.. And you know what.. that has nothing to do with this show, so I am going to end my part in this debate...right here.. Quote:
Insulting me? It's not my fault if you aren't as informed as I am.
So are YOU (in this guise) saying that Americans are not generally patriotic? I've NEVER heard an American quote the saying that you have attributed to Americans...----- in my life.. ever.. I would NEVER vote for a contestant on a reality show based on their nationality.. I did witness what I believe turned out to that type of voting when I watched the last series of Big Brother: UK.. Where it appears that people from Conor's home town blew up the phones voting for that brutish thug of a man... I am done with this debate.. |
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#35 |
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Cell Block H
Posts: 11,878
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Mel B was robbed of Dancing In The Stars but sections of the US media tried to claim that was because she was black rather than her being British. I'm not exactly sure what happened with the rest of that story as I moved back to the UK but I remember it being a big thing over there at the time.
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#36 |
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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With that said, I don't think that it was an anti-American voting group which cost Ashley the win.. I think Kiki helped her win and perhaps she's more well-liked due to her long standing career on a soap opera.. I wanted Ashley or David to win, but I really don't think people voted based on nationality.. Maybe a few people, but not so many that it made a difference...
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#37 |
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,270
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I don't think you are very well informed at all. Americans aren't perfect, no culture is. But I think you are very ill informed.
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I would like to ask you, honestly, how much time have you actually spent in America and how many Americans do you actually know?
Loads. Quote:
Firstly... LOL... what utter nonsense Patriotism != Xenophobic Xenophobic != Jingoism ![]() ![]() Quote:
I think I'm done now.
I dont think it was worth it really Bye
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#38 |
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Radiofree has a fair point when it comes to the East/West coasts of America.
But his description is way off when it comes to the redneck, Tea Party supporting vast swathes of the middle bit. |
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#39 |
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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You have not been listening then.
I do not lie. Are you saying that in general Americans are not extremely patriotic? Remembering of course that you should answer honestly and not just attempt some PC point scoring What I say is both fair and true, if it bests your argument that's your problem. . |
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#40 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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Not entirely true, because Nadia won BB5 and she was portugese, and she beat out a brit, but that's the only case I can remember where a brit lost to another nationality. I have to agree, Britain do tend to root for their own country, mainly when they are the stereotypical "white girl" or "white boy". Black people don't tend to do well in UK shows either, but I don't think that's got anything to do with Nationalism tbh.
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#41 |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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The US scrapped IAC after 2 seasons, if I'm not mistaken. They're not stupid.
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#42 |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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Not entirely true, because Nadia won BB5 and she was portugese, and she beat out a brit.
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#43 |
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,270
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Demanda your comments on Americans are a little simplistic to be honest. I accept the spirit of your point but I think you are labouring it rather especially when it comes to voting in a reality tv popularity contest. The vote reflected a lot of people going with whom they were most familiar. There were a lot of casual voters on Saturday who hadn't followed the series I reckon and in a straight choice they would have gone with the one they knew better. I don't think nationality would have come into it much.
Neither you or I know why the winner was voted for, whether it was because [LIST][*]she was British (people describing this as xenophobia ) [*]she was familiar[*]because she was an actress from a soap (discredited as the other soap actress went a week earlier)[*]casual viewers voting (particularly wild and somewhat silly IMO) or [*]because her child was mentioned (and how bitter people have been about that).[/LIST] All these views have been proffered as fact, when they are just guesses, some more plausible than the others. As for labouring it If you say so. My comments are general. As stated. Good evening |
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#44 |
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True enough however on the other hand that may have more to do with the fact Jason is one of the most hated BB HM's in BB history and even then from what I recall it was very close.
Gino also won Im a celeb. Shilpa won CBB. Cant think of anybody else but how many non-brits have been on these shows. XF is British, Strictly has very few nonn-Brits. Got Talent... has more recently taken a higher number of contestants from abroad. CBB and IAC usually have maybe 1 or 2 American celebs per series, if that. |
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#45 |
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Nadia is a British citizen though right she may not have been born here but she has got citizenship so she is British for all intense and purposes and Gino D'Acampo was born in Sheffield so is legally British from birth
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#46 |
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Join Date: Sep 2008
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Hélio Castroneves who beat Mel B on Dancing with stars is Brazilian.
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#47 |
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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speaking as an american, we are much more likely to vote for racial ties thatn country. people are more likely to vote for you here if you have a british accent, tbh. sometimes you have to take out why someone didnt vote for you and look at it objectively and ask, why was the other person better. if you can find a reason, then most likely it has nothing to do with where you come from.
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#48 |
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The US scrapped IAC after 2 seasons, if I'm not mistaken. They're not stupid.
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#49 |
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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That's very deluded. The US may have traditionally been a melting pot but that accepting nature of outsiders is long gone. It is now one of the most insular countries in the world as the hostility to Mexicans (and the laws some states have passed that victimise hispanics) highlights
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#50 |
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Where did you get... "Support the stars and stripes"
"Stick with uncle sam" "be good Americans" ??? I've never heard these sayings that you claim American's say.. Did you pull that out of your bum or what? I think that either Ashley or David should have won.. Although I did like Charlie - I just didn't think she'd done as much as David and Ashley... I suspect that sweet little Kiki is what brought it home for Charlie rather than Ashley... Even Charlie and Charlie's mom - admit that in a recent article.. |
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