Where did you get... "Support the stars and stripes"
"Stick with uncle sam"
"be good Americans" ???

I've never heard these sayings that you claim American's say.. Did you pull that out of your bum or what?

I think that either Ashley or David should have won.. Although I did like Charlie - I just didn't think she'd done as much as David and Ashley...

I suspect that sweet little Kiki is what brought it home for Charlie rather than Ashley... Even Charlie and Charlie's mom - admit that in a recent article..

Brilliant response!

I thought that too.

"Nationalistic" is just a polite way of saying "Xenophobic" anyway.

That's very deluded. The US may have traditionally been a melting pot but that accepting nature of outsiders is long gone. It is now one of the most insular countries in the world as the hostility to Mexicans (and the laws some states have passed that victimise hispanics) highlights

Radiofree has a fair point when it comes to the East/West coasts of America.

But his description is way off when it comes to the redneck, Tea Party supporting vast swathes of the middle bit.

Insulting me? It's not my fault if you aren't as informed as I am.
So are YOU (in this guise) saying that Americans are not generally patriotic?


No its isn't, you're making silly remarks about something serious.

Supporting a person based on nationality would be patriotism, xenophobia is something entirely different, as I'm sure you know really.

I don't think you are very well informed at all. Americans aren't perfect, no culture is. But I think you are very ill informed.

I would like to ask you, honestly, how much time have you actually spent in America and how many Americans do you actually know?

And TV and the internet do not count because if your views are based on either of those things you are grossly out of whack.


I've never heard those saying from Americans, even from the more patriotic ones.

Also I would say we are far worse with our attitudes to the outside world and people from other countries than they are about us.


Firstly...
Patriotism != Xenophobic
Xenophobic != Jingoism


Secondly...

Where patriotism is concerned Americans are varied and it amounts to generally supporting your country or believing in your country. In the sense of respecting the flag and the constitution. That is where I've found the bulk of American patriotism to be; rather than superiority.

Foreign policy is another thing entirely and is a very complex issue.

Americans and the outside world and them being insular is also quite a complex issue. While it's true that most Americans do not hold a passport and have limited exposure to the world outside their borders the driving factor behind this is scale and distance rather than attitude.

America cannot be compared to say the UK, France, Germany or Spain. It would be more accurate to compare America with Europe. It's a vast place with many states, each with their own little cultures.

You can't compare an American in New York to an American in San Francisco, totally different cultures and with it, attitudes.

Also to leave America is expensive; how many Brits can afford to hop on an aeroplane and take a holiday in America? The same works in reverse.

We consider ourselves traveled because we take a couple of hours on a plane to another European country, who are no more than a couple of hours out from our timezone, but we aren't actually traveling a great distance. Americans do that too, but a couple of hours on a plane in America takes you to another state, to Canada, Mexico or into the Caribbean.

For an American on the east coast to visit the west coast is a far greater distance and is traveling much further than most British people do.

If you go to America you will get a lot of "would love to visit Europe" but if you ask as to why you will get a "do you know how much that would cost". Many Americans travel around America and some to places like Canada, Mexico, Hawaii (I know its a state but its a distance) and the Caribbean.

Also Americans generally aren't really xenophobic, xenophobia is being suspicious of those from the outside; I've never been treat with anything other than polite and welcoming attitudes in America.


Of course there are states and people in America who are xenophobic, in the same way as we have xenophobic people and regions where people are considered "hicks". Thats true of most countries.


I think I'm done now.

Let's not even go there in regards to Mexicans.. The states that border Mexico - in the US - are suffering from the crime effects of the brutal cartel wars.. I travel often to Mexico for work and it is a danger zone of epic proportions..

The majority of LEGAL immigrants from Mexico are lovely people and comprise of a large percentage of our population in the south.. They're hard workers, have delicious food and are great assets to this country.. The ILLEGAL immigrants are a big problem especially the ones who are part of cartels..

Do you live here? Do you live near the border? Do you travel to Mexico? If not, then you just have no idea what you're talking about..

And you know what.. that has nothing to do with this show, so I am going to end my part in this debate...right here..


No more patriotic than other countries. I don't think about my citizenship.. You're born where you're born.. We can't pick and choose..

I've NEVER heard an American quote the saying that you have attributed to Americans...----- in my life.. ever..

I would NEVER vote for a contestant on a reality show based on their nationality..

I did witness what I believe turned out to that type of voting when I watched the last series of Big Brother: UK.. Where it appears that people from Conor's home town blew up the phones voting for that brutish thug of a man...

I am done with this debate..

Mel B was robbed of Dancing In The Stars but sections of the US media tried to claim that was because she was black rather than her being British. I'm not exactly sure what happened with the rest of that story as I moved back to the UK but I remember it being a big thing over there at the time.

With that said, I don't think that it was an anti-American voting group which cost Ashley the win.. I think Kiki helped her win and perhaps she's more well-liked due to her long standing career on a soap opera.. I wanted Ashley or David to win, but I really don't think people voted based on nationality.. Maybe a few people, but not so many that it made a difference...

Ok, but I have to say that as you haven't been able to actually address any of my perfectly reasonable original points I dont really care what you think.


Loads.


LOL... what utter nonsense



I dont think it was worth it really
Bye

You make a good point and, to an extent, I agree with you about some parts of middle America. However, as the last election proved, the Tea Party types are completely discredited now as vote-losing lunatics and their 'presence' is exaggerated. Republicans now distance themselves from these extremists because their religious zeal and intolerance is costing them elections and credibility. Simply because many Americans have flags in their front yards, that does NOT mean they are 'my country, right or wrong' robots. While we flag wave, we also protest, and many of us are disgusted by some things done 'in our name'. Since Viet Nam, Kent State, etc, the true patriot QUESTIONS their government. Some of the 'sayings' attributed to Americans on this forum are laughable. This perceived loyalty to 'Uncle Sam' is long over! We have moved on and, trust me, the 'America right or wrong types' get a lot of press but they are a minority. (dash234 and Fizix have made my point more eloquently than I can so I'll thank them and leave it there.)

Demanda your comments on Americans are a little simplistic to be honest. I accept the spirit of your point but I think you are labouring it rather especially when it comes to voting in a reality tv popularity contest. The vote reflected a lot of people going with whom they were most familiar. There were a lot of casual voters on Saturday who hadn't followed the series I reckon and in a straight choice they would have gone with the one they knew better. I don't think nationality would have come into it much.

Not entirely true, because Nadia won BB5 and she was portugese, and she beat out a brit, but that's the only case I can remember where a brit lost to another nationality. I have to agree, Britain do tend to root for their own country, mainly when they are the stereotypical "white girl" or "white boy". Black people don't tend to do well in UK shows either, but I don't think that's got anything to do with Nationalism tbh.

The US scrapped IAC after 2 seasons, if I'm not mistaken. They're not stupid.

True enough however on the other hand that may have more to do with the fact Jason is one of the most hated BB HM's in BB history and even then from what I recall it was very close.

Well I think you'll find you have failed to understand my view on it.
Neither you or I know why the winner was voted for, whether it was because [LIST][*]she was British (people describing this as xenophobia ) [*]she was familiar[*]because she was an actress from a soap (discredited as the other soap actress went a week earlier)[*]casual viewers voting (particularly wild and somewhat silly IMO) or [*]because her child was mentioned (and how bitter people have been about that).[/LIST]
All these views have been proffered as fact, when they are just guesses, some more plausible than the others.

As for labouring it
If you say so.

My comments are general. As stated.

Good evening

It wasnt remotely close.... I think Nadia won by one of the biggest margins ever on the show (perharps Shilpa would have been more) so there was never any doubt she was going to win.
Gino also won Im a celeb. Shilpa won CBB. Cant think of anybody else but how many non-brits have been on these shows. XF is British, Strictly has very few nonn-Brits. Got Talent... has more recently taken a higher number of contestants from abroad. CBB and IAC usually have maybe 1 or 2 American celebs per series, if that.

Nadia is a British citizen though right she may not have been born here but she has got citizenship so she is British for all intense and purposes and Gino D'Acampo was born in Sheffield so is legally British from birth

Hélio Castroneves who beat Mel B on Dancing with stars is Brazilian.

speaking as an american, we are much more likely to vote for racial ties thatn country. people are more likely to vote for you here if you have a british accent, tbh. sometimes you have to take out why someone didnt vote for you and look at it objectively and ask, why was the other person better. if you can find a reason, then most likely it has nothing to do with where you come from.

because it's a shit show lol. no one wants to se celebrities in the jungle. we already see normal people do it on survivor.

illegal hispanics. that is the problem. they get singled out because it is easier to tell if someone is hispanic because they are a minority. in truth, more than half of our illegal immigrants come from canada and across europe, but they dont get singled out because they are white like the majority of the country so it is harder to point them out.

Having been to America loads of times I find them imo patriotic more than here. On the other hand I love America and find the people far better mannered than this Country as well as more confident. Perhaps I am just lucky where I go.