[dodger0703]

Having seen threads on here over last few weeks asking 'Is this single a flop?' 'Is this person flopping?' I have begun to wonder what a 'flop' actually is!

Do people not just buy music they like anymore, has it got to be a so called commercial success to buy something.

Surely with the proliferation of songs on youtube and illegal downloading there is very little reason to buy singles especially.

[little-monster]

A flop really should be where a product does not make a company any money

Like when a film doesn't make it's budget at the box office.

I personally can't see how Christina Aguilera has made her label any money with the flops that have been Bionic and Lotus. Both albums have failed to give her a hit.

[my name is joe]

a flop is a rubbish single/album, whether it sells 1 copy or 6 million

[ritchie2yk]

Originally Posted by my name is joe

a flop is a rubbish single/album, whether it sells 1 copy or 6 million

Well if it sells 6 million its most certainly not a flop, in your opinion you may not like or it doesn't rank alongside other stuff they have released, but 6 million people will have disagreed with you

[Hav_mor91]

A flop tgo me at least is an album that fails to make any imparct Crtical, Commercial or make its budget back. People say beyonce's 4 was a flop it sold well WW had some hits and would have made the record company money and was critically acclaimed Lotus on the other hand lukewarm in all aspects sales, acclaim, and impact and probably wont make back its budget and profit thats a flop .

[Makson]

Poor Christina being shaded to death already

[mialicious]

When someone jumps into a swimming pool belly first or when you leave your biscuit in your tea for to long.

[Broken_Arrow]

A commercially unsuccessful product. If it doesn't make its money back then it's considered a flop. It's easier to apply this to a movie than a musical project but I think the same applies.

[walterwhite]

Originally Posted by my name is joe

a flop is a rubbish single/album, whether it sells 1 copy or 6 million

Totally disagree with this. If something sells huge amounts of copies it is not a flop.

[gelbma0991]

Originally Posted by mialicious

When someone jumps into a swimming pool belly first or when you leave your biscuit in your tea for to long.

hahaha

[my name is joe]

Originally Posted by walterwhite

Totally disagree with this. If something sells huge amounts of copies it is not a flop.

depends whether the measure is art or commerce

[toanythingtaboo]

"Flop" is used pretty liberally on the internet. It seems to apply to anything that the person doesn't (want to?) view as successful, even if it was.

It gets particularly bad with singles. Apparently a single is only a success if it gets #1 to some. Pretty funny really when you can get a #1 with next to no sales here and plummet the next week.

[liameverett]

Flop - Songs that dissapear from the Charts within' a week or have poor sales.

[sjp07]

Tbh, the way the industry is now, it depends on the artist. 4 is considered a flop, but if Rita Ora sold those number, it wouldn't be a flop. PFRR is considered a flop because it didn't sell nearly as well as PF, but if you look at it as a rap album(which it isn't but is pretending to be) then it isn't a flop. Even though the RIAA decided to certify it platinum based on shipments, she hasnt even sold 800k copies in the US, let alone a million. The million mark for US pop artists seems to be the line to flop or not.

[sjp07]

Just to add, my favorite flop term right now is Flop Factor. It just makes me chuckle when I hear it about XFUS.

[Ryan11]

When an album or single underperforms compared to the artists previous releases.

[Eric_Blob]

It depends on what the song sounds like. If it's an urban song or ballad by a big artist, then getting top 40 is a success, but if it's a dance-pop song by a big artist, then missing the top 10 is a flop.

[Slojo]

Originally Posted by my name is joe

depends whether the measure is art or commerce

The quality of Art is indefinable therefore un-measurable

[Slojo]

Originally Posted by Ryan11

When an album or single underperforms compared to the artists previous releases.

so if Adele only sold 20m of her next album that would be a flop ???

[mgvsmith]

Originally Posted by Broken_Arrow

A commercially unsuccessful product. If it doesn't make its money back then it's considered a flop. It's easier to apply this to a movie than a musical project but I think the same applies.

I don't know about that. 'Shawshank Redemption', 'Blues Brothers' and 'Bladerunner' were all commercially unsuccessful on their first releases but you would not call them flops now!

Originally Posted by liameverett

Flop - Songs that dissapear from the Charts within' a week or have poor sales.

Probably true, but there are songs that do bounce about the lower end of the singles chart and have a degree of stickability. Emile Sande's 'Read All About It?

Albums can stick around even longer in this way as they gradually begin to sell outside the fanbase (or not?)

Originally Posted by Slojo

The quality of Art is indefinable therefore un-measurable

That's not completely true. Critical success can be measured by the number of favourable reviews an album gets. Nicola Roberts' 'Cinderella's Eyes' for example was critically well received and had a number of excellent tracks but didn't sell all that many.

Originally Posted by Slojo

so if Adele only sold 20m of her next album that would be a flop ???

Good point..consider Michael Jackson's 'Bad', the follow up to 'Thriller', 'Bad' didn't sell as many but it was definitely not a flop!

It is the perennial question of what does the pop in pop music and pop culture mean? Does it describe a type of music or is it just about the numbers?

[Eric_Blob]

Originally Posted by Slojo

so if Adele only sold 20m of her next album that would be a flop ???

It wouldn't be a flop, but people would claim it's a flop. People even claim Skyfall is a flop.

[Ryan11]

Originally Posted by Slojo

so if Adele only sold 20m of her next album that would be a flop ???

You know what I mean! And also, how long would it take her to reach 20m with her next album???

[Rooftopcowboy]

Originally Posted by little-monster

A flop really should be where a product does not make a company any money

Like when a film doesn't make it's budget at the box office.

I personally can't see how Christina Aguilera has made her label any money with the flops that have been Bionic and Lotus. Both albums have failed to give her a hit.

I agree, but unlike films its harder to find out how much an album cost to record.

Guns N' Roses 'Chinese Democracy' is reported to be the most expensive album ever recorded at a cost of $14million, following years of re-writes, delays, abandoned recording sessions...it then only sold modestly.

[HandsClean]

A flop depends on the song. Take Tulisa for example.

Young was a success and Live It Up was a flop. But if Sight For You enters around the same position as Live It Up then it is not a flop as these two singles would 'represent' how well she normally charts. If her fourth single enters the top 25 then it can't be called a flop because the album is out and singles normally chart lower if the album is out. If it fails to enter the top 40 then it's a flop. Her album is a flop because it's had large amounts of promotion and airplay and isn't in the top 15. If she was a new artist then this would not be a flop because this would be 'her debut' but her previous releases with N-Dubz have gone top ten and all have gone platinum (the first double platinum), her fellow band mate also managed a top 10 placing for he's album so a top 15 placement changes so despite this, technically being her debut she has expectations

So to sum it up a flop consists of many things, Christina Aguleria and Alanis Morissette's new albums will end up with pretty much the same amount of sales but Christina's is a flop and Alanis's is not.

[Emmersonne]

For me, it's a flop if it performs vastly below expectations. "Flop" suggests to me something that wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

It's a rather woolly, naff, weak verb that implies something not very impressive. So by my logic, it is difficult to "flop spectacularly" because that is less "flopping" to failure as smashing into it at 90 mph