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Old 08-02-2013, 19:05
thenetworkbabe
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I've seen the musical twice and don't ever remember getting that impression. Maybe she does do that, but it's barely even noticeable. The focus of that scene is on Valjean and it should be, he's the one who's dying and passing over to heaven. Marius and Cosette are there because he's dying, and the ghosts wouldn't be there otherwise. Eponine shouldn't be there singing to Marius because that's not the point of the scene, the point is the end of Valjean's story. Eponine's story is told, and Marius is with Cosette. A reprise of the unrequited love is pointless and jarring against the uplifting nature of the lyrics and the fact that Valjean is at last at peace.

Eponine singing 'Take my hand...' has never made sense - Marius isn't dying, he doesn't even see her. I can see entirely why that part was cut, it would have been just as unclear on screen as it is to many watching the stage production.

Almost without exception reviews of the movie by people who have seen the stage show have pointed out how much more sense it makes having the Bishop there than Eponine. The Bishop was the one who set Valjean on the path to a better life, a life which ended up with him meeting Fantine, saving Cosette and ultimately saving Marius for Cosette. It's highly symbolic and poignant to have the Bishop there for Valjean's death.

If it had been Marius' death, then yes, Eponine being there would have made sense, but it's not. Valjean is being welcomed into heaven by the man who saved him (the Bishop) and the woman whose sacrifice saved him again and led to joy returning to his life (Fantine). No-one else needed to be there.
Eponine's story isn't told and done though - because love is everlasting. And as the script says, she's there because Marius is. It shows she's still there for Marius at the point he's just married Cosette - which reinforces the tragedy of her story of what might have been. The problem is that raises difficult questions. It depends in the stage show a bit who you are watching, and who is acting Eponine, and how. It also depends how prominent Eponine has been, and how much the audience has identified with, and liked her - but the bit in the score which usually gets the hankies out is where they slip Eponine into the vocal and she appears from the side - it adds Eponine's tragic story back into the finale, to reinforce Valjean's. Fantine, in the stage show, is there to take Valjean, but the final scene has her looking down on Cosette , Valjean looking down on the married couple below him and Eponine looking down on Marius

In the movie, they have cut Eponine's role back and not gone with the most positive interpretation, but they still have a problem, as some reviewers noted, that Eponine can steal the show anyway, and Sam Barks is one of their strongest players. That means that even fewer people will get why she is there at the end, and/or the character may look too large given more to do. Thats may be enough reason for them to take her out of the end scene. However, they have made it even more explicit that she dies for Marius by reverting to the original book story - so there's also even more case for her being there. There's less point in her turning up as a ghost on the 1848 barricades as she's a girl in love - rather than someone infused with revolutionary spirit.

The bishop being there I think is artifice to get Colm at the end. It changes the message. The stage show portrays self salvation by love and good deeds. Eponine and Fantine have gone the extra mile and died for love. The bishop has just done what he's paid to and offered advice and example - which you would hope he does for all his parishioners. Having him turn up at the end, to do what a secular Fantine can do in the stage show, inflates his role, and makes the story look decidedly more catholic - as the priest leading his flock literally into the light of heaven behind the alter. Its not clear that anti-catholic Hugo would approve of that message. People may like that end more, as it gives a simpler religious message, that will appeal to agnostics, catholics and evangelicals alike, and doesn't raise questions about what everlasting love means. They also may feel safer with an ending that suggests the need for change and revolution was resolved later in the 19th century, and doesn't go on. That doesn't mean its a better ending - just one they think their cinema audience will have fewer problems with.
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Old 08-02-2013, 19:16
Mystical123
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The bishop being there I think is artifice to get Colm at the end. It changes the message. The stage show portrays self salvation by love and good deeds. Eponine and Fantine have gone the extra mile and died for love. The bishop has just done what he's paid to and offered advice and example - which you would hope he does for all his parishioners. Having him turn up at the end, to do what a secular Fantine can do in the stage show, inflates his role, and makes the story look decidedly more catholic - as the priest leading his flock literally into the light of heaven behind the alter. Its not clear that anti-catholic Hugo would approve of that message. People may like that end more, as it gives a simpler religious message, that will appeal to agnostics, catholics and evangelicals alike, and doesn't raise questions about what everlasting love means. They also may feel safer with an ending that suggests the need for change and revolution was resolved later in the 19th century, and doesn't go on. That doesn't mean its a better ending - just one they think their cinema audience will have fewer problems with.
You may be right about Eponine, though I don't agree that she isn't infused with revolutionary spirit - she is because Marius is, and she does it for him. I do think she probably was cut from the end to avoid Sam Barks stealing the show again and to avoid causing confusion as to why she was there, but I still think it makes more narrative sense for her not to be there anyway. I don't think it's at all as clear as you say in the stage production, and I still maintain that that scene is essentially about Valjean, as the story has been all along. It's his passing over to heaven, to salvation, not solely a pronouncement about love.

And as a result, I disagree entirely that the Bishop's appearance is artifice. Hugo may have been anti-Catholic, but there are undeniable religious tones in the story. The Bishop is not there because he is a Bishop though, he is there because it was he who changed Valjean's life in the first place, he who sent him on the path towards a better life. I think it's a mistake to look at it through the other characters in that scene, it's about Valjean. It's about the effect the characters who appear have had on him. Fantine is there because she played a crucial role in his salvation as well, not for Cosette. It is only incidental that Cosette is there, as had Thenardier not mentioned it, she wouldn't even have been there. All her being there does is give Valjean extra peace, he was already ready to pass on. In the stage show Eponine's appearance can be explained as she is the one who delivered the letter for Cosette, which Valjean took and read, which led him to find Marius and save him, which allowed him to be at peace that Cosette would have a secure future.

I don't think the Bishop appearing changes the meaning of the ending at all. It's exactly the same meaning as in the stage show (after all, the stage show has the ghosts of the revolutionaries as well, so that historical message about the revolution hasn't changed) and it only makes more sense to have the characters that are there in the movie, regardless of how good a character Eponine is and how beautiful the harmony is in the stage score.
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Old 08-02-2013, 22:47
mal2pool
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Maybe Russell Crowe should sing his lines more often. Its the only time i could hear every word he said in a movie. Usually its a gruff whisper.
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Old 09-02-2013, 03:21
scragend
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About the 'Miserables' aspect of things,I was always told (being a non French speaker) that the actual French title,does not translate literally to English,and rather than 'the miserables' a more true approximation would have been 'The Unfortunates'?
Given the setting and the dramatis personnae,that would seem far more apposite, to my mind.
Yes - "les misÚrables" would perhaps be accurately translated as "the wretched ones" (*), or as you say, "the unfortunates".

It's nothing to do with being miserable in the modern English sense of the word as such, although if you were in that position you would likely be miserable!

(*) cf. in the Epilogue - "for the wretched of the earth, there is a flame that never dies..."
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Old 10-02-2013, 14:03
mimicole
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Some interviews:

Eddie Redmayne on the Jonathan Ross show
Amanda Seyfried on the Jonathan Ross show
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Old 10-02-2013, 14:30
tracystapes
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Let's keep fingers crossed that Les Mis wins big tonight at the BAFTAs!
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Old 10-02-2013, 14:31
mimicole
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Let's keep fingers crossed that Les Mis wins big tonight at the BAFTAs!
Yes! Is it being shown this evening?
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Old 10-02-2013, 14:49
tracystapes
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Yes! Is it being shown this evening?
Yes at 9pm on BBC One
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Old 10-02-2013, 15:14
mimicole
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Yes at 9pm on BBC One
I'm gonna be out but thankfully it's on the BBC so it'll be on iPlayer. Something for me to catch up on after work tomorrow, by which point I will know who won what!
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Old 10-02-2013, 15:23
googleking
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Yes at 9pm on BBC One
Most years BAFTA are usually stupid enough to leak the results on their website a couple of hours before
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Old 10-02-2013, 15:32
tracystapes
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I hope Tom Hooper has scaled the internet to see that fans 100% DO want a director's cut DVD I need more Les Mis
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Old 10-02-2013, 15:42
googleking
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I hope Tom Hooper has scaled the internet to see that fans 100% DO want a director's cut DVD I need more Les Mis
Hopefully a directors cut without the unnecessary new song in the middle!
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Old 10-02-2013, 16:09
Lady Spice
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I kinda liked "Suddenly." I thought it worked well to show the bond forming between Valjean and Cosette. I also thought the tiny reprise at the end by Cosette, after Valjean left was the perfect way to highlight how she felt about his departure.

It didn't ruin or damage the movie in any way, and I do think it added to it somewhat.
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Old 10-02-2013, 16:15
mimicole
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I kinda liked "Suddenly." I thought it worked well to show the bond forming between Valjean and Cosette. I also thought the tiny reprise at the end by Cosette, after Valjean left was the perfect way to highlight how she felt about his departure.

It didn't ruin or damage the movie in any way, and I do think it added to it somewhat.
Me too.
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Old 10-02-2013, 16:35
mal2pool
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I liked all of the songs apart from that one. Didnt really go anywhere or have a tune! Never works when they write a new song into a show.
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Old 10-02-2013, 16:45
tracystapes
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I think my favourites in the movie were

-Look Down
-Lovely Ladies
-At The End Of The Day
-I Dreamed A Dream
-On My Own
-One Day More
-Empty Chairs At Empty Tables
-Epilogue
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Old 10-02-2013, 17:36
Diorelli
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Most years BAFTA are usually stupid enough to leak the results on their website a couple of hours before
They are not showing it live which is a pain. The show starts at 7pm but is showm at 9pm. I suspect the winners will be all over the net by then again.
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Old 10-02-2013, 17:37
tracystapes
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How many nominations in total does Les Mis actually have? Isn't it like 5?
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Old 10-02-2013, 17:47
googleking
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They are not showing it live which is a pain. The show starts at 7pm but is showm at 9pm. I suspect the winners will be all over the net by then again.
Yup BBC News just said they will start passing on the results as soon as the show starts at 7pm.

How many nominations in total does Les Mis actually have? Isn't it like 5?
Nine

Best Cinematography
Best Costume Design
Best Film
Best Leading Actor
Best Make-Up And Hair
Best Outstanding British Film
Best Production Design
Best Sound
Best Supporting Actress
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Old 10-02-2013, 19:06
Mystical123
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Most years BAFTA are usually stupid enough to leak the results on their website a couple of hours before
Well considering the ceremony's not being broadcast live, that's understandable.


There are various live blogs if you want to follow the show as it happens (just started), otherwise it's on at 9. And yes, the results will definitely be available before it airs. I presume it's later because of some of the adult content of some of the films nominated, and to give it a prime-time TV slot and avoid them having to do too much work to bleep out profanities


Red carpet pics for anyone who's interested, bit of a black theme going on among the Les Mis cast (everyone's wearing black, except possibly Amanda Seyfried as I haven't managed to find a picture of her yet). I love Anne Hathaway's dress!

Samantha Barks
Anne Hathaway
Helena Bonham Carter
Eddie Redmayne
Hugh Jackman
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Old 10-02-2013, 19:16
tracystapes
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Samantha and Anne look stunning!
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Old 10-02-2013, 19:19
mimicole
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Samantha and Anne look stunning!
Yeah! Love both of their dresses

I love that everyone's in black!
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Old 10-02-2013, 19:23
tracystapes
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Yeah! Love both of their dresses

I love that everyone's in black!
Definitely a theme

Oh and the soundtrack is back at #1 in the UK albums chart!
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Old 10-02-2013, 19:27
mimicole
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Definitely a theme

Oh and the soundtrack is back at #1 in the UK albums chart!
Eddie Redmayne looks good too

BIB - Good to hear
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Old 10-02-2013, 19:28
tracystapes
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Wouldn't it be amazing if Les Mis won every category!? I'd love that
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