Oh look above ....... more anti-O2 posting......

And there'll be more of the same below from the same source, including the usual repeats no doubt!

Not wasting any more time on this.

I'm outta here.......

I'm guessing it's easier to leave the thread, rather than comment on a map showing the launch of O2's UMTS 3G network all those years ago and planned coverage of 98% geographical, but then all these years on showing what they actually delivered as a side by side comparison.

It's jawdropping, but you'll never hear a bad word said against O2 and would rather post PR, or leave, no admitting any failings at all.

What they said they would deliver:
http://www.mobilecomms-technology.co.../gprs_uk1.html

What they delivered:
http://i.imgur.com/ppurl.png

If O2 don't see 4G as being important for 13-14 years (by which time 5G should be available) then I would be worried about the company's future and investors should be worried too

What will Vodafone and O2 do about 4G. They are barley getting to grips with 3G! More and more people are using data now and to neglect this is foolish.

I guess things will become more clear after the 4G auction. Here is the time table. Its a bit vague:

11 December: The application day
Prospective bidders submit their applications to Ofcom together with an initial deposit.

December: Qualification stage
Applications are reviewed to determine who can go on to bid in the auction.

January: The principal stage
Bidding begins. This could take a number of weeks. Bids will be placed online over secure internet connections, using software that has been developed specifically for the auction.

February/March: The assignment stage
Bidders informed what they have won and its cost.

February/March: The grant stage
Licence fees are paid and licences granted.

May/June: New 4G services launched
New 4G services expected to go live from a range of providers.

http://media.ofcom.org.uk/2012/11/12...auction-rules/

Wavey really is such a bore, dunno why you all continue to try and hold any dialogue with him/her.

I don't understand why we have to wait 14 years from now though. some other networks already offer really fast data networks across the whole of the UK, we don't need to wait 14 years for O2 to deliver. To say because of the aggressive rollout and in 14 years it'll benefit us in the same sentence is a joke.

It's such an odd comment to make. I think it's very important to look at what they promised with 3G vs what they actually delivered, which were so wildly different it was totally laughable.

Wonder when O2 will publish their coverage predictions for 4G so we can all have a laugh

It looks like they are aiming to crawl out of 4G in 13 - 14 years. So expect the same crap coverage we see with 3G today.

If I were an investor I would have questions to ask. They will surely do a great deal of damage to the business if they dont take data seriously.

The new Vodafone and O2 network is apparently 98% indoor population coverage within a couple of years. However given what they said they would do with 3G and tha map from years ago I don't know whether to believe them.

I think partnering with Vodafone will help them out though. That's why I'm so confused by O2's comment in that article.

Does anyone know if they have started building the new combined network?

My impression of the network sharing arrangement with Vodafone was they were committed to improved 3G but 4G was going to be left up to the individual operators as to how much coverage they wanted to commit to. Which was in the FT article I quoted earlier "potentially 4G services"

oh pleaseeee! everytime some challenges you about O2 in a discussion you throw your toys out the pram , grow the **** up!

Ahhh that's interesting I thought it was a 4G thing, but obviously not.

The first response is always to bring 3 into it.
The 2nd is to post a load of general PR
Wait for somebody to give a lengthy reply to the PR , then say the thread has gone off topic, but it only did that because of his post
Finally refuse to answer the point all together and say he's leaving the thread to avoid answering the key points!

He can always argue against the points if he believes them to be wrong, that map did show the projected of 3G coverage at the time when the 3G network was newly launched, but we never saw the coverage they promised. Why not? why is there still not the coverage that was promised all those years ago?

Should we believe them this time with 4G?, I wonder how quickly we really will see a 4G rollout from O2 given the fact their COO says it'll be of benefit to us in 13-14 years - a direct quote. Should we read into this that they don't plan to roll it out as quickly as we expected?

I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw that quote, or that projected coverage map, certainly worthy of discussion.

My thoughts are that O2 will bid for a small part of 800MHz (1 Lot from the auction) so they wont have to commit to Ofcoms Coverage obligations. The 800MHz spectrum is the most expensive. They could get hold of a fair bit of 2.6GHz cheaply.

Vodafone have deep pockets and may bid for 2 Lots at 800MHz and maybe EE will be happy with just 1 Lot as they have 1800MHz for 4G anyway. Not sure what 3 have in mind but they may be happy with 1800MHz.

Plenty of 2.6GHz spectrum so im sure that will be a free for all.

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1757912

It would make sense if each of the 4 got 1 of the 800Mhz lots, and then each got some of the other lots, but as you say, it could end up different to that. I'm not sure any operator needs 2 lots of 800Mhz, surely 1 will suffice, together with a lot from the higher frequencies for urban areas.

When there were 5 separate networks, one was going to lose out on 800Mhz for definite, but now Orange and T-mobile have merged I anticipate each company getting 800Mhz, unless a new entrant comes into the market. However that's unlikely as they would have to start from scratch infrastructure wise.

I can definitely foresee a new entrant buying the 100k high frequency licences for broadband services marketed in very specific small scale urban deployments.

Applications have to be in by Tuesday 11th December. I wonder if Ofcom will publish who the applicants are on Tuesday or Wednesday?

If CTI Ltd bid then that would indicate O2 and Vodafone are going do a combined bid. Will O2 (Telefonica) be able to afford to bid for much given their perilous financial position or is it something they cant afford to not bid for?

They aren't allowed to do that, they have to remain separate frequencies, those are the terms that the OFT considered when agreeing to the network share.

I hope they do announce all those that have applied to bid on Tuesday or Wednesday.

Ok thanks for clearing that up

Roll on round 1

How come EE claim to have it now ?

They re-used existing spectrum as Orange and T-mobile merged. Between them they had so much 1800Mhz spectrum that they could use some of it to launch 4G early, as part of the merger the regulator also told them to sell some 1800Mhz, which they sold to 3, and that will be released to 3 in Sept next year for 4G use.

Essentially they are now decommissioning one of the networks and making it in to one infrastructure supporting the 3 brands, Orange, T-mobile and EE.

I couldn't either - I thought it must have been a mistake - but here it is, contained within this article for all to see:

http://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/...-says-vodafone

Surely 3 - 4 years... 13 - 14 we'll be at least a further generation of tech forward.

Unless that is meant to signify O2's UMTS 2100MHz coverage only, that second 3G map is at least 12 months out of date and definitely doesn't show the improvements in 3G coverage via 900MHz spectrum use at least in Northern Ireland (though oddly their latest coverage refresh has removed the previous 3G coverage improvements for some reason ).

W.R.T. the first map, that broad coverage prediction looks massively ambitious for any operator let alone O2 - it suggests 3G coverage for O2 even where 2G doesn't exist for them in the likes of much of the Scottish highlands.

The projected coverage for (at the time in 04/05) the 'new O2 UMTS network' would have been 2100Mhz, they were not to know they would be allowed to re-farm.

If you prefer though you can compare it against 3G900 although remember this is only supported by some devices, even then it still shows massive rural areas where there's no 3G, certainly no where near what they said it would be all those years ago.

My question is, do we take them at their word for 4G now given this information, and the comments made by O2's COO saying in about 13-14 years time 4G being of great benefit.

To be fair i read that O2 quote along the lines of the high investment costs now, will see benefit to the business over the next decade and belong, hes mearly stating the obvious, it will be loss making/low margin until they have got a good customer base using the service and the cost amortisation of roll out has finished. that he is forecasting will take 12 years

personally i'm more interested in 3, they are making a lot of noises that suggest they are in no rush to invest in LTE and might not even bother trying to get sub 1ghz spectrum.

will be interesting to see how they pan out over the next few years, there is no way they can keep their current value and invest in LTE, they would have to find a away to get people off AYCE and monitorise the data service.

They made a profit last quarter, and they are agressively adding customers at the moment, rather than chasing revenues. They want to get to 15M customers in the next 4-5 years, that's the CEOs target. They are at 8 now and added over a million a year for the last 2 years.

Orange managed very good coverage with only 1800Mhz and 2100Mhz, just a smaller cell pattern, plus of course they share infrastructure costs because of the MBNL deal. I think they'll be happy launching LTE on 1800Mhz. Will they do AYCE on 4G, no I doubt it, but they'll continue doing it on 3G and then offer a premium LTE service with a cap I would have thought.

Ultimately they might have an exit strategy in 5 years and it's not all about profits today it's about how much the business is worth when they sell it too.

If they dont bid or fail to get 800mhz i would think that will be the clearest indication yet that they are on an exit strategy.