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How does the PS3 'Disc Benefits' system work (and avoid re-use) technically?


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Old 10-12-2012, 10:07
Gatch
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Hi,

I'm intrigued about this - I've done some searches, and have found only a few instances of the question, but no answer...

How does PS3 Disc Benefits stop you from applying the same PS3 disc to activate the Vita version to multiple accounts, as it clearly has to do?

For example, if you take PS3 All Stars Battle Royale, you can unlock one Vita copy for a PSN account. You can't do that again with that disc. However, you can activate multiple PSN accounts using multiple discs on the same PS3 system (this has been verified elsewhere on the net).

So, I'm assuming there is some kind of unique serial number/barcode area on the BD? Can anyone point to any technical description of how this is done?

Also, if this works, the 'game pass' codes could end up becoming redundant? This might save time, and I have had a problem with a faulty online pass in the past (Online Pass serial numbers are associated with a game in a database at Sony, and my Twisted Metal OP was incorrectly linked with Uncharted 3, which I already had).
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:19
Rich_L
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Doesn't it come with a code in the box to enter into the store for a downloadable version for the Vita?
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:29
Gatch
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Doesn't it come with a code in the box to enter into the store for a downloadable version for the Vita?
They don't - that's what I assumed they would do. Instead, when you insert the disc, you have two disc icons - one to run the PS3 game, the other is entitled 'Disc benefits' - selecting this asks you if you want to activate, and then it applies the Vita game to the account you are signed in with. You then find the game in your download list for Vita.

So there must be some kind of unique identification on the disc itself.
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Old 10-12-2012, 18:19
redhatmatt
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They don't - that's what I assumed they would do. Instead, when you insert the disc, you have two disc icons - one to run the PS3 game, the other is entitled 'Disc benefits' - selecting this asks you if you want to activate, and then it applies the Vita game to the account you are signed in with. You then find the game in your download list for Vita.

So there must be some kind of unique identification on the disc itself.
Interesting, printing each disk with a unique code would be very expensive.
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Old 10-12-2012, 18:27
Gormond
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A quick google suggests battle royal comes with a code http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/67302...oyale/64697457

That guy bought the ps3 version, used the code to get vita version then returned the game.

These discs are pressed, a unique Id on the disc wouldn't be possible.
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Old 10-12-2012, 18:42
Gatch
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Hi,

Actually the thread link you posted doesn't reference a printed code. He used a PS3 disc to unlock the Vita version. Other people in the thread then referenced that this was then locked. Do some more Googling and you'll see other threads too. Also threads saying it doesn't work at all unless you apply the 4.31 firmware update.

I've done this myself with Battle Royale. It uses the disc benefits system, there is NO printed code for the Vita version in the box!

I also have Ratchet & Clank: QForce which has the same system, except when you activate it tells you to come back in January when the PS Vita game is available. Once again, there is no printed game code in the box. It is a one time activation using the disc only.

Which is why I am asking, if anyone knows how this works. It is extremely unlikely the discs are individually pressed, though I wonder if there is an area of uniqueness that can be applied to a BD.
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Old 10-12-2012, 18:44
Gatch
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Here is documentation on how you use disc benefits. Note... no code.

http://www.justpushstart.com/2012/11...-vita-version/
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Old 10-12-2012, 18:53
Gormond
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Here is documentation on how you use disc benefits. Note... no code.

http://www.justpushstart.com/2012/11...-vita-version/
Yes but that is assuming you have already entered the online pass at the back of the manual which is required to play the PS3 version online.
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Old 10-12-2012, 18:54
Gatch
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No it doesn't. There was no code for the Vita version in the box.

The link I posted shows a video of the Vita game being activated. That is it. Nothing is done beforehand. No code is entered. It can't be any clearer than that.
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Old 10-12-2012, 18:57
Gormond
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No it doesn't. There was no code for the Vita version in the box.

The link I posted shows a video of the Vita game being activated. That is it. Nothing is done beforehand. No code is entered. It can't be any clearer than that.
How do you know that the online pass that came with the game wasn't already entered?

If this isn't the case then why supply an online pass with the game at all? or any game for that matter?

EDIT: That site does seem to imply that the code is stored on the disc... i'm skeptical lol
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Old 10-12-2012, 19:02
Gatch
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How do you know that the online pass that came with the game wasn't already entered?
LOL... because I bought the game and unwrapped it, and put it into my PS3 and activated the Vita version using disc benefits. And this is what everyone else does too with this syetem.

And... the online pass is different. When I downloaded the Vita game, I hadn't used the pass yet. The online pass is just for the PS3 disc version (which further raises my question, why would this be needed now). It does NOT allow you to download a Vita version.

As the Vita download is by its nature a digital download, it doesn't need an online pass - newness is 'baked in', as it can't be transferred 'second hand'.

In fact, if you just entered a code to initiate a download, why on earth would you need to use a whole new disc benefits system anyway?


...Interesting that the thread you linked was started by a troll boasting that he activated the game then gave it back as new...
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Old 10-12-2012, 19:05
Gormond
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LOL... because I bought the game and unwrapped it, and put it into my PS3 and activated the Vita version using disc benefits. And this is what everyone else does too with this syetem.

And... the online pass is different. When I downloaded the Vita game, I hadn't used the pass yet. The online pass is just for the PS3 disc version (which further raises my question, why would this be needed now). It does NOT allow you to download a Vita version.

As the Vita download is by its nature a digital download, it doesn't need an online pass - newness is 'baked in', as it can't be transferred 'second hand'.

In fact, if you just entered a code to initiate a download, why on earth would you need to use a whole new disc benefits system anyway?


...Interesting that the thread you linked was started by a troll boasting that he activated the game then gave it back as new...
I'm not sure what you are insinuating but it was the first link via a Google search

The disc benefit thing is interesting, it make me wonder why codes are used at all if this can be done.
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Old 10-12-2012, 19:15
Gatch
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No, I was only insinuating that as nothing has been ';scratched off', it is difficult to tell if a disc has been activated until you try it, so it is open to abuse, which is sadly the first link found.

I suspect this has something to do with the BCA region of the disc, which can contain levels of uniqueness. I think other discs have been individually unique in this way in the past, but I think it would be new for PS3.
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Old 10-12-2012, 19:21
Gormond
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No, I was only insinuating that as nothing has been ';scratched off', it is difficult to tell if a disc has been activated until you try it, so it is open to abuse, which is sadly the first link found.

I suspect this has something to do with the BCA region of the disc, which can contain levels of uniqueness. I think other discs have been individually unique in this way in the past, but I think it would be new for PS3.
Does the disc look like there is something written in the BCA region?
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Old 10-12-2012, 19:26
Gatch
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They all do, but recent games appear to have used it to an extent in any case, the question is how unique the codes have been up until now.

So I guess for now, I'll assume it is the BCA region until more information comes to light...
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Old 10-12-2012, 19:27
Gormond
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They all do, but recent games appear to have used it to an extent in any case, the question is how unique the codes have been up until now.

So I guess for now, I'll assume it is the BCA region until more information comes to light...
It seems an odd move, I have heard of this before but I didn't think it was extensively used because of the cost of giving each disc a unique identifier.
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Old 10-12-2012, 19:42
Gatch
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It seems an odd move, I have heard of this before but I didn't think it was extensively used because of the cost of giving each disc a unique identifier.
Maybe it has cost down over time, and testing roll-out with cross buy might be the beginning of something bigger, with online disc activation/immediate bans for invalid codes, etc, etc...
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Old 10-12-2012, 20:08
Gormond
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Maybe it has cost down over time, and testing roll-out with cross buy might be the beginning of something bigger, with online disc activation/immediate bans for invalid codes, etc, etc...
It would stop codes being sold on eBay, maybe that's part of their plan.
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Old 10-12-2012, 20:18
Gatch
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It would stop codes being sold on eBay, maybe that's part of their plan.
I literally came on to post the same thought

If the PS3+Vita version sells for 39.99, and the Vita version for 29.99, then a little cottage industry could be set up selling paper codes that came with the PS3 version. There's more risk if you need to give someone access to your PSN account to log in and activate the disc... or send you the disc so you can activate it yourself.

People can do this amongst themselves (and have) by activating the PS3 online pass, so they can play the PS3 game, and then activating the Vita version for someone else's account , which as I said earlier doesn't need an online pass. I guess this is a loophole that could be closed in future, and at the moment I guess there's nothing stopping Sony from pairing online pass and disc activations and tracking how often these deviate.
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Old 11-12-2012, 13:59
mojobrew
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I rather thought every individual disc was serialised (probably in hexdecimal) so it wouldn't take too much of a leap for that to be used for verification.

Surely PC-CDROMs have been doing that for years? Only can be activated once? Or am I talking out of my behind?
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Old 11-12-2012, 14:08
Gatch
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I think there was a combination of some using codes/serial numbers on the box, and some level of uniqueness. I think DivX discs might have been individual, and I think CDRs can be unique even before they are burned.

Also I think some consoles are unique by batch, and use the BCA to determine how to implement their disc protection. I also think the PS3 started using BCA more in the last year or so.

So, still a likely guess, but I don't see any confirmation anywhere yet.
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