I know I keep repeating myself but I honestly think we've just played too many games (40 or so this season) with a limited squad, and having two cup ties sandwiching a tough derby game took it out of us. We rinsed this lot out last week but I did notice that we flagged when Arsenal upped the pace in the second half and that was a worrying portent for this match. Like I said before two games a week for two months solid and key players like Mata have played in most of them.

Twenty minutes in I thought we'd lost our edge and I had a bad feeling about the game. Probably most disappointingly Ba had no impact. Now it's the FA Cup or Europa League for silverware, I have to say unless we strengthen a bit more we are going to go empty handed this season.

But f**k it we won the Champs League!!!

EDIT : I have to agree about Rafa's subs - I mean take Ivanovic off for Luiz? Luiz should have started as he's a great passer and ballwinner and then Bertrand on for Cole??

Should have started Luiz, later on chucked on Torres and Marin as things got desperate. I'm finding it harder and harder to defend Benitez, it's not all his fault but not starting Ba in the first leg when we were all over them has cost us dear.

The players are tired, being involved in so many games is completely detrimental to us, especially with a small squad. We had to play torres 90 minutes in every game up to the transfer window - he was already burnt out at liverpool, and previously he had the summer cup competitions!

Lets just get 3rd and write this season off completely.

At least Hazard's gonna get a rest

True.

Its a shame moses is away.

Perhaps we can give marin a good run for the next 3 games?

Agree entirely with TurstFundBaby. For a tactical genius Rafa is proving to be absolutely clueless


Nah - Bertrand will play. And if Cole gets injured, Bertrand will stay on the LW with Ferreira at LB. Marin will remain on the bench until he is loaned out. (can only assume he's been caught with one of the higher ups relatives)

Nothing against Bertrand, but I'm getting to the stage where I'd rather we just sell him. Bringing him on the LW doesn't solidify the CM when we are overrun, and he doesn't provide any spark going forward, so why does it happen in every game? Nobody at the club since we started using him seems to actually know who he is or what he does.

Bertrand is a LB surely? all this playing him out of position is just Rafa nonsense

Di Matteo started it

Starting him in the CL final was a smart move, but making him the 'game-changing' sub is where Robbie went wrong....Rafa has continued with it.

But the guy is average at best so far, he is hardly a game changer like marin could be

Indeed. We haven't seen enough of him at LB to believe he is Cole's successor, and it won't do him any favours for our managers to keep thinking of him as an impact sub. I'm yet to see a single game where he has come on and changed things for the better, but it's become inevitable that he will be brought on when things need to change.


Luiz in CM appears to be over.

Yes, I have to agree. There comes a time when you just have to throw caution to the wind and go for it. To be fair, I don't think my starting eleven woul have been much different. I would have played Luiz from the start if he was match-fit, but that's about all I would have changed.
But as time went on, it became less and less important if Swansea hit us on the break. So after an hour it was time to chuck everything at them, shit or bust is the technical term, I believe

Having said all that, I don't think we were as bad as some of my learned colleagues are saying. Swansea are a decent side, they had a game plan and stuck to it.
I don't think many teams would have overcome a two goal deficit against them last night. Perhaps Man City, they have more options up front. I could imagine Aguero and Tevez prising them open.
Mata always looked the most likely to score..as usual. That's a bit worrying as we didn't really buy him to be our main striking threat. Oscar will chip in with goals, but again it's not his main purpose. We probably need a bit more from Hazard as a goal threat. He's great in the build-up, but rarely does much in and around the box. We need a world class striker, Ba is never going to be one of those unless I'm badly mistaken.

The result last night didn't surprise me, so I'm not that disappointed. We outplayed Swansea in the first leg, but they went away with a freakish win. After that they were always favourites, in front of a passionate home crowd. I don't think we played badly, but our passing in the final third should have been better, and we lacked a cutting-edge up front.

ps...I don't know how you've got the patience to keep posting in the "ball-boy" thread, codeblue. You deserve a medal for extraordinary valour.

pps.. Special thanks to our friend Cantona as well, for his stalwart defence of Hazard and continuing to be a beacon of common sense. Never expected to write that about a United fan.

Our starting team once fitness and suspensions are done with needs to be this :


In terms of Bertrand I actually don't know what to make of him, he done a decent job in the CL final but he's a defender being chucked into midfield but unlike Luiz not actually possessing midfield qualities.

I bloody hope Benitez doesn't think it's time to end the Luiz midfield experiment because he could be awesome in there.

No Oscar ?

I think we're a bit lightweight with all three in there - Oscar can be thrown on regularly though. I really like Moses he provides a nice physical prescence in there to back up Ba.

Hazard looks more dangerous to me when he's not on the left. I'd also keep Azpil at RB with Ivanovic in place of Cahill.

Hazard can roam about - he's such a good player. Shame he's got a ban he was staring to score goals as well but at least he can rest up a bit. I wish we didn't rely on Mata so heavily he needs to put his legs up a bit as well.

Losing over two legs to Swansea, has probably put an end to any chance Rafa had of getting the job fulltime.

Though Ba looks a better bet than Torres at this moment in time, i'm far from convinced he's the longterm answer to our problems up front.
Imo, at the top level he's got 'useful sub' written all over him.

Dont think anyone is suggesting that hes our new number 1 striker. He is a good player but he isnt world class. He can score goals in the premier league which is what we need. I still think we will get Falcao(if we can convince him to come to us), But ba is still a good asset to have especially at the price we got him for.

i agree with others here, our squad looks very bare right now and i think the players are jaded, tired and just not at their best now. Problem is we cant even rotate them that much as we dont seem to have that big a squad as we used to under Mourhino. All the games are catching up with us now, and i dont think one player had a good game last night, even Ba looked pretty poor, but the service wasnt great. Hazard/Mata/Oscar all looked jaded and diddnt seem up for the game when we needed them to be, perhaps the cold weather and all the games theyve played put them off it.

I really dont think the result was a massive blow to us, it is only the carling cup after all. Need to keep winning in the premier league and anything we do in the FA cup / europa is just a bonus for me.

Doesnt help that Rafa's substiutions are baffling, not that impressed at all with his tactics in recent games.

Me too. Even though I never wanted or rated him in the first place I was prepared to give him a chance seeing as it was only till the end of the season, but have lost all patience with him having blown our chances in the WCC and COC, plus the fact we're even further behind Man U points-wise in the PL than we were when he took over. Unfortunately Roman will never admit his mistake in axing Di Matteo for him so even if Brentford were to knock us out of the cup on sunday we'll still be stuck with him till the end of the season.

I agree with Moses over Oscar. I haven't been that impressed with Oscar for a while (probably since Di Matteo was still in charge). Don't get me wrong, he's a great talent but his form's dipped quite a bit. I guess we have to remember that it's not only his first season in the PL, but any European league so it's probably to be expected really. Rest of the team I agree on too.

Sorry, can't agree with you there. Aside from Mata and perhaps Cole, I think Oscar has been one of our best and most consistent players.
He often doesn't catch the eye doing anything extravagant, but he gets through a lot of work and generally uses the ball intelligently.
I do agree though, Moses is a bigger threat from an attacking point of view, and we need that right now.

Daily Mail (I know) are reporting that Luiz is out for the next few weeks.

Seriously need some reinforcements.

Chel have a "Small Squad"? probably the strongest overall squad aprt from Man C in the PL, & umpteen players out on loan.
And all the "We should start with Ba" posts, we did, no difference.!

10-1 on a Brentford win...anyone fancy a flutter.....

Roman, put a billion on us losing

That's bollocks news as I was really hoping to see him claim a permanent midfield role and go from strength to strength.

With Hazard and Moses off for a while we are up the creek as we will just be forced to carry on playing people who need a rest.

Marin should get a decent run but I wish we had Piazon back now. Hurry up and sign Fellaini FFS