When will NFC Contactless Payment be available?

The Wizard · 11-12-2012, 12:08

Rang my bank (Nat West) last week to ask the question and they didn't even know what I was talking about yet according to their own website, they are trialing it on the iPhone. My Galaxy S2 has NFC built in but I'm not able to use it.

Google wallet says my phone isn't compatible. I fear that if they take too long to roll this out then manufacturers will drop the technology as it's too costly to make phones with in built NFC if nobody is able to use it.

I fear that my phone will be obsolete before I even get chance to try it out.

Mark in Essex · 11-12-2012, 15:08

The NFC is one of the reasons I went for the Galaxy S3 as I do not carry my card or wallet with me all the time and I thought it would be handy to be able to pay for stuff with my phone eventually.

I think Visa did a trial at the Olympics but have not heard any more.

reclusive46 · 11-12-2012, 16:41

Being completely honest, until Apple joins the NFC bandwagon I don't think it will take off.

call100 · 11-12-2012, 17:03

It's nothing to do with Apple or any other mobile company (as it's not reliant on NFC enabled phones) come to that. NFC is not being pushed by the retailers......I've had it in one form or another (bank cards etc) and the number of retailers that actively encourage it are few and far between.
On a night out I've had my card inside the phone case and used it from there without having to take it out.....
It will take off when the mobile companies push out the NFC enabled sims and sd cards that will enable all mobiles to be used and the retailers push it more overtly....

wavejockglw · 11-12-2012, 17:11

I hope this takes off as it would be a good additional option for payments when you can't be bothered visiting a cash machine.

Scotty2012 · 11-12-2012, 17:11

Google Wallet will become available for the UK next year.

Stiggles · 11-12-2012, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by reclusive46

Being completely honest, until Apple joins the NFC bandwagon I don't think it will take off.

That may have been the case years ago, but nowadays people don't look to apple for innovation as they have none these days.

Daveoc64 · 11-12-2012, 19:15

I just don't see the point in this sort of technology.

I use a contactless debit card - it requires me and the retailer to do very little to benefit from it.

Anything that involves a phone is going to be slow and cumbersome. Several loyalty cards are going down the route of having an App, but it relies on you having to do a barcode scan on the screen - something which isn't usually very easy.

As usual, the other issue is how fragmented things are. Do we really want to have to go into a store and check if it works with our phone/App?

whoever,hey · 11-12-2012, 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by reclusive46

Being completely honest, until Apple joins the NFC bandwagon I don't think it will take off.

Hell will freeze over before that happens. Apple dont innovate any more, they litigate.

Android is the most popular OS anyway.

reclusive46 · 11-12-2012, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daveoc64

I just don't see the point in this sort of technology.

I use a contactless debit card - it requires me and the retailer to do very little to benefit from it.

Anything that involves a phone is going to be slow and cumbersome. Several loyalty cards are going down the route of having an App, but it relies on you having to do a barcode scan on the screen - something which isn't usually very easy.

As usual, the other issue is how fragmented things are. Do we really want to have to go into a store and check if it works with our phone/App?

I have to agree, My American Express is contactless and makes transactions simply and easy, no need for a phone.

noise747 · 12-12-2012, 08:32

considering how long the technology have been with us and how man times over the years I been told that we will all be using contactless payments in a few years, it have not really taken off at all.

My bank is still not giving out the cards to everyone and only credit cards, not debit. supermarkets don't seem to be using them either, which I thought they would do on the self scans.

Not sure if I would want one on a phone to be honest, oh yes, i just thought of that, I was going to look at the new Blackberry next year, i bet that will have the reader in place, I will have to think again about that.

I will stick with cash for most things.

Gormond · 12-12-2012, 10:05

My barclay card has this, I don't see the point of it being in an app on my phone. There must be security concerns about this too.

noise747 · 12-12-2012, 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gormond

My barclay card has this, I don't see the point of it being in an app on my phone. There must be security concerns about this too.

LOL, and there is no security concerns about the NFC system itself?

Right.

Gormond · 12-12-2012, 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise747

LOL, and there is no security concerns about the NFC system itself?

Right.

Far more so when it's controlled by software, leading the way for viruses and so forth.

I also wouldn't want to be reliant on my smart phone having a charge to be able to buy things, it's more convenient being on a small card IMHO.

noise747 · 12-12-2012, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gormond

Far more so when it's controlled by software, leading the way for viruses and so forth.

I also wouldn't want to be reliant on my smart phone having a charge to be able to buy things, it's more convenient being on a small card IMHO.

i presume the system will work as a normal card and would not need power just to pay for stuff, unless it was linked to something like google wallet, which I would never use.

Bad enough having a paypal account, but I do find it useful when buying stuff on the net.

i just find this NFC idea that you can spend money just by touching a card against a machine and no way to prove that it is you, is a pretty naff idea,

neo_wales · 12-12-2012, 13:45

Very useful for small purchases I think, their use will grow I think.

reclusive46 · 12-12-2012, 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise747

considering how long the technology have been with us and how man times over the years I been told that we will all be using contactless payments in a few years, it have not really taken off at all.

My bank is still not giving out the cards to everyone and only credit cards, not debit. supermarkets don't seem to be using them either, which I thought they would do on the self scans.

Not sure if I would want one on a phone to be honest, oh yes, i just thought of that, I was going to look at the new Blackberry next year, i bet that will have the reader in place, I will have to think again about that.

I will stick with cash for most things.

I've seen a Few ASDAs in East Anglia with contactless terminals now. Our local sainsburys also has the contactless signs up now but not got the terminals yet.

call100 · 12-12-2012, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by neo_wales

Very useful for small purchases I think, their use will grow I think.

That's all it's intended for.....small purchases up to £20 or so.

As for security. No system is infallible, just look at chip and pin. However I don't think that the risks are any higher than existing systems.

alanwarwic · 12-12-2012, 14:28

http://www.nfcworld.com/list-of-nfc-...united-kingdom

noise747 · 12-12-2012, 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by reclusive46

I've seen a Few ASDAs in East Anglia with contactless terminals now. Our local sainsburys also has the contactless signs up now but not got the terminals yet.

What is the point in having the sign if there are no terminals?
don't make sense.

i only been in our Asda twice since it opened, not planning to go in there again, so I have no idea what they have or have not got.

i know our Sainsburys don't have any signs or terminals and i have not seen any in morrisons.

noise747 · 12-12-2012, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by call100

That's all it's intended for.....small purchases up to £20 or so.

As for security. No system is infallible, just look at chip and pin. However I don't think that the risks are any higher than existing systems.

Maybe so, but chip and pin is a bit more secure than just sticking a card against a terminal with no way of knowing if the card belongs to you or not.

Even the old signature system was more secure, if use right.
Oh look at this card in the middle of the road, oh, it got a NFC chip on, i will go into that shop and get something for just under £20, now lets go and have a coffee, now i pop into Tescos and get just under £20 worth of food.

Sure it may come up with enter pin, but it may not and if you got it set for say 5 time before it asks for the pin, but if someone is lucky, they could get almost £100 out of it before the owner knows.

The problem is now that if a bank do give you one of these cards they will not swap it to a normal one, i know someone who have got one and their bank said she had no choice but to have it. the only thing she could do was to set it so it will ask for the pin every time it is used.

i certainly would not want one on a phone and if I ended with one on a mobile phone I would make sure it is disabled.

IslandNiles · 12-12-2012, 15:14

^^^

Customers aren't liable for the cost of purchases made via contactless technology, as far as I remember. As you say, there is no security. That's why it's limited to low amounts and also a number of transactions per day, I think.

Mark in Essex · 12-12-2012, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by reclusive46

I have to agree, My American Express is contactless and makes transactions simply and easy, no need for a phone.

I know but the point is I always have my mobile with me as don't carry my card/wallet if I don't think I'll need it.

You could if said the same thing about a watch, but I have 4 watches that I never wear as I have the time on my phone.

The Lord Lucan · 12-12-2012, 16:37

I have it on both my cards and it works well. Even have NFC for entry in to our building at work. Works well.. However security concerns about it and it would be even worse security wise to have it working on a phone. Isn't security the main reason Apple has not done anything with it? Passbook bar codes being the safer way for now?

Daveoc64 · 12-12-2012, 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise747

Maybe so, but chip and pin is a bit more secure than just sticking a card against a terminal with no way of knowing if the card belongs to you or not.

Even the old signature system was more secure, if use right.
Oh look at this card in the middle of the road, oh, it got a NFC chip on, i will go into that shop and get something for just under £20, now lets go and have a coffee, now i pop into Tescos and get just under £20 worth of food.

Sure it may come up with enter pin, but it may not and if you got it set for say 5 time before it asks for the pin, but if someone is lucky, they could get almost £100 out of it before the owner knows.

The problem is now that if a bank do give you one of these cards they will not swap it to a normal one, i know someone who have got one and their bank said she had no choice but to have it. the only thing she could do was to set it so it will ask for the pin every time it is used.

i certainly would not want one on a phone and if I ended with one on a mobile phone I would make sure it is disabled.

Why would you care though?

As pointed out, Visa and MasterCard make it MANDATORY that the bank/card issuer refunds ANY contactless transactions that the customer reports as being fraudulent.

The bank would basically need CCTV evidence to prove otherwise.

I lost my contactless debit card a couple of weeks ago - didn't have any problems.

11-12-2012, 12:08	#1
The Wizard Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 10,516	When will NFC Contactless Payment be available? Rang my bank (Nat West) last week to ask the question and they didn't even know what I was talking about yet according to their own website, they are trialing it on the iPhone. My Galaxy S2 has NFC built in but I'm not able to use it. Google wallet says my phone isn't compatible. I fear that if they take too long to roll this out then manufacturers will drop the technology as it's too costly to make phones with in built NFC if nobody is able to use it. I fear that my phone will be obsolete before I even get chance to try it out.

11-12-2012, 15:08	#2
Mark in Essex Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,644	The NFC is one of the reasons I went for the Galaxy S3 as I do not carry my card or wallet with me all the time and I thought it would be handy to be able to pay for stuff with my phone eventually. I think Visa did a trial at the Olympics but have not heard any more.

11-12-2012, 16:41	#3
reclusive46 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Norwich Posts: 570	Being completely honest, until Apple joins the NFC bandwagon I don't think it will take off.

11-12-2012, 17:03	#4
call100 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,572	It's nothing to do with Apple or any other mobile company (as it's not reliant on NFC enabled phones) come to that. NFC is not being pushed by the retailers......I've had it in one form or another (bank cards etc) and the number of retailers that actively encourage it are few and far between. On a night out I've had my card inside the phone case and used it from there without having to take it out..... It will take off when the mobile companies push out the NFC enabled sims and sd cards that will enable all mobiles to be used and the retailers push it more overtly....

11-12-2012, 17:11	#5
wavejockglw Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Glasgow Posts: 10,276	I hope this takes off as it would be a good additional option for payments when you can't be bothered visiting a cash machine.

11-12-2012, 17:11	#6
Scotty2012 Inactive Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 948	Google Wallet will become available for the UK next year.

11-12-2012, 18:27	#7
Stiggles Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Dundee, Scotland Posts: 9,293	Quote: Originally Posted by reclusive46 Being completely honest, until Apple joins the NFC bandwagon I don't think it will take off. That may have been the case years ago, but nowadays people don't look to apple for innovation as they have none these days.

11-12-2012, 19:15	#8
Daveoc64 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bristol (BBC1 West) Posts: 15,143	I just don't see the point in this sort of technology. I use a contactless debit card - it requires me and the retailer to do very little to benefit from it. Anything that involves a phone is going to be slow and cumbersome. Several loyalty cards are going down the route of having an App, but it relies on you having to do a barcode scan on the screen - something which isn't usually very easy. As usual, the other issue is how fragmented things are. Do we really want to have to go into a store and check if it works with our phone/App?

11-12-2012, 19:17	#9
whoever,hey Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 30,072	Quote: Originally Posted by reclusive46 Being completely honest, until Apple joins the NFC bandwagon I don't think it will take off. Hell will freeze over before that happens. Apple dont innovate any more, they litigate. Android is the most popular OS anyway.

11-12-2012, 19:50	#10
reclusive46 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Norwich Posts: 570	Quote: Originally Posted by Daveoc64 I just don't see the point in this sort of technology. I use a contactless debit card - it requires me and the retailer to do very little to benefit from it. Anything that involves a phone is going to be slow and cumbersome. Several loyalty cards are going down the route of having an App, but it relies on you having to do a barcode scan on the screen - something which isn't usually very easy. As usual, the other issue is how fragmented things are. Do we really want to have to go into a store and check if it works with our phone/App? I have to agree, My American Express is contactless and makes transactions simply and easy, no need for a phone.

12-12-2012, 08:32	#11
noise747 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 22,810	considering how long the technology have been with us and how man times over the years I been told that we will all be using contactless payments in a few years, it have not really taken off at all. My bank is still not giving out the cards to everyone and only credit cards, not debit. supermarkets don't seem to be using them either, which I thought they would do on the self scans. Not sure if I would want one on a phone to be honest, oh yes, i just thought of that, I was going to look at the new Blackberry next year, i bet that will have the reader in place, I will have to think again about that. I will stick with cash for most things.

12-12-2012, 10:05	#12
Gormond Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Scotland Posts: 15,714	My barclay card has this, I don't see the point of it being in an app on my phone. There must be security concerns about this too.

12-12-2012, 10:34	#13
noise747 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 22,810	Quote: Originally Posted by Gormond My barclay card has this, I don't see the point of it being in an app on my phone. There must be security concerns about this too. LOL, and there is no security concerns about the NFC system itself? Right.

12-12-2012, 10:47	#14
Gormond Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Scotland Posts: 15,714	Quote: Originally Posted by noise747 LOL, and there is no security concerns about the NFC system itself? Right. Far more so when it's controlled by software, leading the way for viruses and so forth. I also wouldn't want to be reliant on my smart phone having a charge to be able to buy things, it's more convenient being on a small card IMHO.

12-12-2012, 11:28	#15
noise747 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 22,810	Quote: Originally Posted by Gormond Far more so when it's controlled by software, leading the way for viruses and so forth. I also wouldn't want to be reliant on my smart phone having a charge to be able to buy things, it's more convenient being on a small card IMHO. i presume the system will work as a normal card and would not need power just to pay for stuff, unless it was linked to something like google wallet, which I would never use. Bad enough having a paypal account, but I do find it useful when buying stuff on the net. i just find this NFC idea that you can spend money just by touching a card against a machine and no way to prove that it is you, is a pretty naff idea,

12-12-2012, 13:45	#16
neo_wales Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: South Wales/Gran Canaria Posts: 8,298	Very useful for small purchases I think, their use will grow I think.

12-12-2012, 13:59	#17
reclusive46 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Norwich Posts: 570	Quote: Originally Posted by noise747 considering how long the technology have been with us and how man times over the years I been told that we will all be using contactless payments in a few years, it have not really taken off at all. My bank is still not giving out the cards to everyone and only credit cards, not debit. supermarkets don't seem to be using them either, which I thought they would do on the self scans. Not sure if I would want one on a phone to be honest, oh yes, i just thought of that, I was going to look at the new Blackberry next year, i bet that will have the reader in place, I will have to think again about that. I will stick with cash for most things. I've seen a Few ASDAs in East Anglia with contactless terminals now. Our local sainsburys also has the contactless signs up now but not got the terminals yet.

12-12-2012, 14:16	#18
call100 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,572	Quote: Originally Posted by neo_wales Very useful for small purchases I think, their use will grow I think. That's all it's intended for.....small purchases up to £20 or so. As for security. No system is infallible, just look at chip and pin. However I don't think that the risks are any higher than existing systems.

12-12-2012, 14:28	#19
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	http://www.nfcworld.com/list-of-nfc-...united-kingdom

12-12-2012, 15:03	#20
noise747 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 22,810	Quote: Originally Posted by reclusive46 I've seen a Few ASDAs in East Anglia with contactless terminals now. Our local sainsburys also has the contactless signs up now but not got the terminals yet. What is the point in having the sign if there are no terminals? don't make sense. i only been in our Asda twice since it opened, not planning to go in there again, so I have no idea what they have or have not got. i know our Sainsburys don't have any signs or terminals and i have not seen any in morrisons.

12-12-2012, 15:11	#21
noise747 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Herefordshire Posts: 22,810	Quote: Originally Posted by call100 That's all it's intended for.....small purchases up to £20 or so. As for security. No system is infallible, just look at chip and pin. However I don't think that the risks are any higher than existing systems. Maybe so, but chip and pin is a bit more secure than just sticking a card against a terminal with no way of knowing if the card belongs to you or not. Even the old signature system was more secure, if use right. Oh look at this card in the middle of the road, oh, it got a NFC chip on, i will go into that shop and get something for just under £20, now lets go and have a coffee, now i pop into Tescos and get just under £20 worth of food. Sure it may come up with enter pin, but it may not and if you got it set for say 5 time before it asks for the pin, but if someone is lucky, they could get almost £100 out of it before the owner knows. The problem is now that if a bank do give you one of these cards they will not swap it to a normal one, i know someone who have got one and their bank said she had no choice but to have it. the only thing she could do was to set it so it will ask for the pin every time it is used. i certainly would not want one on a phone and if I ended with one on a mobile phone I would make sure it is disabled.

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When will NFC Contactless Payment be available?

12-12-2012, 15:14	#22
IslandNiles Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 13,091	^^^ Customers aren't liable for the cost of purchases made via contactless technology, as far as I remember. As you say, there is no security. That's why it's limited to low amounts and also a number of transactions per day, I think.

12-12-2012, 16:19	#23
Mark in Essex Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,644	Quote: Originally Posted by reclusive46 I have to agree, My American Express is contactless and makes transactions simply and easy, no need for a phone. I know but the point is I always have my mobile with me as don't carry my card/wallet if I don't think I'll need it. You could if said the same thing about a watch, but I have 4 watches that I never wear as I have the time on my phone.

12-12-2012, 16:37	#24
The Lord Lucan Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 4,966	I have it on both my cards and it works well. Even have NFC for entry in to our building at work. Works well.. However security concerns about it and it would be even worse security wise to have it working on a phone. Isn't security the main reason Apple has not done anything with it? Passbook bar codes being the safer way for now?

12-12-2012, 16:44	#25
Daveoc64 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bristol (BBC1 West) Posts: 15,143	Quote: Originally Posted by noise747 Maybe so, but chip and pin is a bit more secure than just sticking a card against a terminal with no way of knowing if the card belongs to you or not. Even the old signature system was more secure, if use right. Oh look at this card in the middle of the road, oh, it got a NFC chip on, i will go into that shop and get something for just under £20, now lets go and have a coffee, now i pop into Tescos and get just under £20 worth of food. Sure it may come up with enter pin, but it may not and if you got it set for say 5 time before it asks for the pin, but if someone is lucky, they could get almost £100 out of it before the owner knows. The problem is now that if a bank do give you one of these cards they will not swap it to a normal one, i know someone who have got one and their bank said she had no choice but to have it. the only thing she could do was to set it so it will ask for the pin every time it is used. i certainly would not want one on a phone and if I ended with one on a mobile phone I would make sure it is disabled. Why would you care though? As pointed out, Visa and MasterCard make it MANDATORY that the bank/card issuer refunds ANY contactless transactions that the customer reports as being fraudulent. The bank would basically need CCTV evidence to prove otherwise. I lost my contactless debit card a couple of weeks ago - didn't have any problems.