[Moggio]

Two years after Cuba announced radical economic reforms, broadcaster Simon Reeve heads to the Caribbean island to look at the effects the liberalisation has had. He meets Cubans whose lives are being transformed - from the owners of fledgling businesses to the newly rich estate agents selling properties valued at up to £750,000 - and asks if this new openness could lead to more political freedom. He also explores whether Cuba will be able to maintain the positive aspects of its long isolation under socialism - such as low crime, high-quality education and one of the best healthcare systems in the world - while embracing a form of capitalism.

BBC2 11/12 at 9pm.

[miss buzzybee]

Umm he is yummy looking!

[Prince Monalulu]

Bumpity bump for Simon Reeves fans.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01pfvns

[mrbernay]

Am enjoying this. Simon Reeve is such a natural.... He just connects so well with the people he interviews...a bit like Louis Theroux....

[mrbernay]

Nobody else watching? You're missing a gem....

[Prince Monalulu]

Originally Posted by mrbernay

Nobody else watching? You're missing a gem....

Yes 4 of us on DS, but that's DS for you.
Where's Simon's fixer/guide some of them have been very good value.

[mrbernay]

Originally Posted by Prince Monalulu

Yes 4 of us on DS, but that's DS for you.
Where's Simon's fixer/guide some of them have been very good value.

I think that shows how Cuba has changed. OK, he was given permission to film but that is progress

[strewth]

Enjoyed this programme. Cuba has changed since I was there in 1999. Huge changes to come though.
Simon, the presenter looks like he needs a wash and a change of clothes.

[Cressida]

Originally Posted by mrbernay

I think that shows how Cuba has changed. OK, he was given permission to film but that is progress

We were there over 10 years ago and travelled the island. The workers who arrived late had probably waited for hours to be collected and driven to the farm. I have never forgotten setting out one day and being asked if we minded giving a lift to a young man and dropping him off at a place where he could catch a bus. The bus never arrived and he was in the same place many hours later as we returned. He never complained and was as cheerful as when we had left him.

It’s the most intriguing, captivating place to visit but with problems beyond understanding but it does seem to be changing and will change even more after Castro dies.

[Prince Monalulu]

Originally Posted by mrbernay

I think that shows how Cuba has changed. OK, he was given permission to film but that is progress

He has fixers/guides all over the place, nothing to do with Cuba itself.
I wanted to see the fixer because some of them have been very entertaining in their own right, plus their relationship with Simon.

[bonerm]

Interesting program. I like Reeve's presenting style from his various Equator/Tropics/Indian Ocean shows etc and I like how he tries to show a bit more of the reality of places without getting too grim or political about it all.

Regarding Cuba, It seemed to imply that the average government wage was about £15 a month, yet sinks on the blackmarket were already going for $100.

At that rate no doubt capitalism will flourish and McDonalds will be in there in our lifetimes. That local vendor featured probably won't get the chance to be the king of burgers in Cuba.

Funny how none of this was mentioned in Michael Moore's Sicko documentary. As far as he was concerned Cuba was a socialist paradise where everyone was happy and everything was free or cheap.

[Verence]

I remember watching his series Places That Don't Exist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Places_That_Don%27t_Exist

[Stansfield]

Simon may have been 'restricted' but he still made a Film that showed what life is like in Cuba.

Clear Motorway.....
La Pachanga I liked.

But Ration Books....



And Simon's Boots....were dirty.

[Prince Monalulu]

Originally Posted by Verence

I remember watching his series Places That Don't Exist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Places_That_Don%27t_Exist

Simon, Ben Anderson and Sean Langan, generally quality output from all 3 wherever they go.
Bruce Parry too, but his stuff is very different on the whole to theirs.

[Dub2]

If greasy, expensive American style burgers and fries are the future of Cuba, well God help Cuba.

The Cuban people are the most beautiful people on Earth. Lithe, athletic, beautiful skin, fit and healthy. Do they really want to swap that for a metre wide American arse and a plate full of heart attack food?

[trevgo]

Originally Posted by mrbernay

Am enjoying this. Simon Reeve is such a natural.... He just connects so well with the people he interviews...a bit like Louis Theroux....

How can you possibly compare him with The Great Theroux? I enjoyed the programme as I'm fascinated by the subject, but his technique makes me squirm. Bounds up to the subject.."SERGIO! WOTCHA MATE!" like one gang member greeting another. Very disrespectful banter too - most of his interviewees looked taken aback.

I do not want to see any more of this man. He absolutely grates on me.

[Glaston]

Thought some of it was a bit disingenuous, specially the bits about how Cuba is only changing now that Fidel is almost out of the picture.


Cuba started relaxing some of its rules on Capitalism in 1997.

People were allowed to start up Casa Particulares or "homestays" for foreign tourists and these have been doing well in the intervening years.


Generally, yet another excellent programme from Reeves.

[StaxVolt]

I'd never seen this presenter before and was decidedly unimpressed.A basic knowledge of greetings in Spanish (time of day) would have saved his awkwardness at meeting people.It was quite clear he didn't have a clue what to say when greeting anybody and in most cases,his nervousness immediately transferred itself to his interviewees.


I don't know how long it's been going on now but it seems there's a new protocol for dealing with any language barrier at the BBC in Travelogues.For example,subtitles appear from nowhere as the interviewee speaks in his/her first language while the presenter nods vigorously while clearly having no comprehension of what is being said.He then responds or asks another question in English while the interviewee looks understandably blank until the out of our earshot translation is done and we can move on.


I was quite content to see an interviewer ask his question in English,wait while an English-speaking national translates into the local language,and then watch the presenter's reaction as the reply was translated back to English.I assume this procedure was regarded as too tedious for some and 'we' could save time/film adding subtitles later.


It was clear,to me at least,that the BBC wanted to produce a CUBA = Communist = bad ... Capitalist = good programme without resorting to historical accuracy.The Missile Crisis (probably the most significant nuclear event since 1945),the reasons behind the 'Bay Of Pigs' invasion and the consequences of the undercover operations conducted by the CIA,culminating in their numerous botched attempts on Castro's life were deemed to be superfluous facts to this 'rebirth of a communist country doc.'


Obviously,the demise of the Soviet Bloc has had a disastrous effect on the Cuban economy and the reforms shown last night are to be welcomed and I would hope for a happy ending for this country that I would love to visit one day.I just think the BBC can do better than this shoddy treatment.

[charliesays]

Originally Posted by trevgo

How can you possibly compare him with The Great Theroux? I enjoyed the programme as I'm fascinated by the subject, but his technique makes me squirm. Bounds up to the subject.."SERGIO! WOTCHA MATE!" like one gang member greeting another. Very disrespectful banter too - most of his interviewees looked taken aback.

I do not want to see any more of this man. He absolutely grates on me.

I don't want to see any more of Eastenders. So I don't watch it.

Try it with Simon Reeve, it's really easy you know.

[Prince Monalulu]

Originally Posted by trevgo

How can you possibly compare him with The Great Theroux? I enjoyed the programme as I'm fascinated by the subject, but his technique makes me squirm. Bounds up to the subject.."SERGIO! WOTCHA MATE!" like one gang member greeting another. Very disrespectful banter too - most of his interviewees looked taken aback.

I do not want to see any more of this man. He absolutely grates on me.

Gang members greeting each other with 'Wocha mate'
I wonder what bubble some people live in, where an informal greeting like that implies gang membership.
Danny la Rue's catchphrase/greeting, how very current

I assume the informality of the greetings is down to TV being what it is, manufactured.
They probably don't walk in cold off the street and waylay the people they're interviewing, they've been introduced before and given a quick run through of what's going to happen, questions etc.

Hey ho, his shows aren't as good as before IMO.
You'll go and watch something else.

[montyburns56]

Originally Posted by StaxVolt

I'd never seen this presenter before and was decidedly unimpressed.A basic knowledge of greetings in Spanish (time of day) would have saved his awkwardness at meeting people.It was quite clear he didn't have a clue what to say when greeting anybody and in most cases,his nervousness immediately transferred itself to his interviewees.


I don't know how long it's been going on now but it seems there's a new protocol for dealing with any language barrier at the BBC in Travelogues.For example,subtitles appear from nowhere as the interviewee speaks in his/her first language while the presenter nods vigorously while clearly having no comprehension of what is being said.He then responds or asks another question in English while the interviewee looks understandably blank until the out of our earshot translation is done and we can move on.


I was quite content to see an interviewer ask his question in English,wait while an English-speaking national translates into the local language,and then watch the presenter's reaction as the reply was translated back to English.I assume this procedure was regarded as too tedious for some and 'we' could save time/film adding subtitles later.


It was clear,to me at least,that the BBC wanted to produce a CUBA = Communist = bad ... Capitalist = good programme without resorting to historical accuracy.The Missile Crisis (probably the most significant nuclear event since 1945),the reasons behind the 'Bay Of Pigs' invasion and the consequences of the undercover operations conducted by the CIA,culminating in their numerous botched attempts on Castro's life were deemed to be superfluous facts to this 'rebirth of a communist country doc.'


Obviously,the demise of the Soviet Bloc has had a disastrous effect on the Cuban economy and the reforms shown last night are to be welcomed and I would hope for a happy ending for this country that I would love to visit one day.I just think the BBC can do better than this shoddy treatment.

So you would have preferred if about a third of the programme was just translations? And it's funny how you suggest that the BBC is anti-communist as a lot of people seem to think that it is full of lefties pumping out left wing propaganda.

[StaxVolt]

Originally Posted by montyburns56

So you would have preferred if about a third of the programme was just translations? And it's funny how you suggest that the BBC is anti-communist as a lot of people seem to think that it is full of lefties pumping out left wing propaganda.

I made the point that the method adopted by these types of programme has altered somewhat.Translators are there so why not show them?That way we can see a natural reaction from both parties as once was quite happily the case? I fail to see how your claim that this would account for "about a third of the programme" is justified though.


The BBC's stance here was in my view,clearly anti-Castro and therefore anti-communist.Having given no account of the totally corrupt 'democracy' that was Batista's, which before 1959 allowed the US to own 90% of the mines,80% of all utilities and 40% of all sugar plantations.Adding to the mix,the Mafia-owned gambling and Hotel industries it is little wonder that Castro succeeded.These historical facts could have easily surfaced at some point in the programme and it was lazy journalism to ignore them but make a point of the consequences to Cuba of the failing of the Soviet Bloc.


Maybe this programme was just tailored for sale to BBC America.

[charliesays]

Originally Posted by StaxVolt

The BBC's stance here was in my view,clearly anti-Castro and therefore anti-communist.Having given no account of the totally corrupt 'democracy' that was Batista's, which before 1959 allowed the US to own 90% of the mines,80% of all utilities and 40% of all sugar plantations.Adding to the mix,the Mafia-owned gambling and Hotel industries it is little wonder that Castro succeeded.These historical facts could have easily surfaced at some point in the programme and it was lazy journalism to ignore them but make a point of the consequences to Cuba of the failing of the Soviet Bloc.


Maybe this programme was just tailored for sale to BBC America.

And you just sound like a socialist talking.

Reeve's programmes are always about the here and now. It was about Cuban life today and the changes that are happening since Raul assumed power. This can only be put in context by examining Fidel's years in power.

A detailed analysis of what came before with Batista would have been pointless filler.

[StaxVolt]

Originally Posted by charliesays

And you just sound like a socialist talking.

Reeve's programmes are always about the here and now. It was about Cuban life today and the changes that are happening since Raul assumed power. This can only be put in context by examining Fidel's years in power.

A detailed analysis of what came before with Batista would have been pointless filler.

Apologies to the Simon Reeve fans on this thread but as far as I know,it is not yet forbidden for a socialist to express a view on DS.


To that end charliesays,the notion that the programme makers put the changes in the new Cuba into some kind of "context by examining Fidel's years in power" would have been a good idea.


Had they done so we might have learned that under Castro,Cubans enjoyed a literacy rate above 90%,an infant mortality rate that is lower than US and Universal Health Care for all.Despite the challenges of the failure of the Soviet Bloc and the US trade embargo of 1992,Cuban health care remains admired by many.


But the programme makers didn't do that though did they?

[Jules_Baxter]

Havana looked fab - very excited as going there in Feb to stay in some Casa Particulars and hopefully get to know the owners :-)