Forgive me, promo-only, but I am unclear as to what you are unclear about. And the sport I mentioned is all the channels above.

Do I know what sports channels BT will offer? Over and above what they already do, no, I don't know if they will manage to secure any extra content/channels. But I do know they will be in HD. And it's BT's Ian Livingston that said that, not me.

I've even seen a BT presentation on the matter (provided to me by another user, link now not available), and when I did, my jaw just hit the floor. And I thought they're going to multicast it at WHAT bit rate?!!? Wow!

And they'll be supported Vision multiroom too, at some point in the future, though there was no date set for that, so it's certainly not just around the corner.

So there are many changes coming to IPTV in the next twelve months, and they're all good.

No disputing BT's own sports channels will be in HD, but nothing has been said about third party channels.

As this time, I'd be surprised if Sky Sports and the Eurosports will be in HD.

Why do you say that, derek500?

That's exactly what I was getting at. I'm not disputing BT's own content will be in HD but other channels? Who knows.

Because we've had several press releases throughout the year announcing third party linear channels and not one has mentioned HD. If the deals included HD versions, it would surely have been mentioned.

And if Talktalk are charging £30 for Sky sports 1&2 in SD only, what would BT charge for HD versions (there's a £7 supplement on Virgin).

Bottom line is, you'll get more for less going directly with Sky.

I disagree. Though I'll admit I'm on dodgy ground there, arguing that case, as the new channels and pricing packages have yet to be announced on the YouView platform.

Though BT have recently begun giving away HD content for free on the BT Vision platform (on the Unlimited package), and they didn't even make an announcement about it! lol. It just happened, out of the blue.

And where YouView is concerned, Sky is an irrelevance. With no say what-so-ever in it's future development, form or function. As the first post on this thread confirms.

And I firmly believe the future of 21st century digital Freeview television is in advanced PVR's that combine DTT transmissions with IPTV added content. If you disagree with that, fine. As it is a matter of opinion only.

Out of curiosity, what HD content in particular have they given away for free?

I disagree about Sky being an irrelevance - they have a lot of exclusive first run content that would hugely bolster the YouView offering in entertainment, movies and sport.

Maybe the future does lie in IPTV but I certainly wouldn't say at this stage that YouView would be the platform to dominate considering the shambles it's been up to this point.

Sky users just don't get YouView, do they? Because YouView isn't aimed at Premium Content seekers, it isn't aimed at tech-heads and it isn't aimed at the 'I want all my twiddley knobs and features in the box' brigade.

It's aimed at the masses, which are the ten million UK Freeview TV users who also have broadband. Thats YouViews target market.

And believe me, none of the content providers will be charging £123 a year just for the privilege of accessing their content via HD channels. lol

If YouView isn't aimed at premium content seekers why on earth does it all revolve around additional paid for content?! Why are they clamouring to sign up pay channels to their offerings? Don't talk such nonsense!

YouViews target market is very much the current non-pay households who would like additional pay content but on a more flexible schedule - if not, they may as well just have Freeview so, yes, it's very much about premium content seekers.

I think Sky will be very competitive in regards to whatever BT end up offering, I really do.

Ah, now there you state an opinion, which I can neither prove to be right or wrong. And nor would I want to, either.

So only time will tell what the future holds.

But may I ask, do you think YouView will be a success? And do you think it will be a threat to Sky, when it fully launches?

Which part do you refer to as opinion?

I will say this - YouView has the potential to be a success but if it carries on the way it's gone so far then it'll fall flat on its face. Threat to Sky? Not a chance. A threat to a company like Virgin perhaps but Sky? I don't think they have anything to worry about.

You think YouView revolves around Premium Content? Revolves? Really? See, I told you Sky users just don't get Youview.

Premium content is an option on YouView, not a requirement. And on YouView nor should it be either.

Without paid for content, without premium content, YouView is simply a Freeview PVR with a backwards EPG... Doesn't exactly make it a trendsetter does it. It's the paid for content that both BT and TalkTalk are relying on because without it and without good pricing, YouView will fall by the wayside. There are far cheaper options for a PVR than shelling out for a Humax box and/or entering into a broadband contract.

I'm not sure about your line on Sky users not 'getting' it - there's an alarming amount of YouView, BT fan boys and Sky bashers who don't seem to have a clue!

And if premium content isn't key... Exactly why did BT go after the Premier League rights again?? Care to throw your spin on that?

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"Without paid for content, without premium content, YouView is simply a Freeview PVR with a backwards EPG... Doesn't exactly make it a trendsetter does it."
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Now your getting it.

I think it's you who isn't. I notice you cut out the other bits when quoting...

I am not a Sky basher. I am also not a 'fanboy'. Of any particular service. As I've had all the services, in my time (excluding TalkTalk).

The new YouView platform is merely a new alternative as to whats already out there. And as to whether it succeeds or not will be interesting to see.

Hey, what about people like me? I'm after the best and cheapest way of getting what I want from whoever can provide it at the right price.

I want all the free channels plus Sky Sports 1 & 2 (for the football) and possibly if the price is right, BT Sports when launched (for the football).

I do not want any other Sky channels and I object to having to pay £20-odd a month for them before subscribing to Sports, when all I want is free + Sports. Same with HD - not interested unless it's free.

I'm stuck with Sky until BT sort themselves out via Youview but when they can offer the above, I'll be off to them in a flash if the price is right. I suspect that as BT Vision base is currently £ 5 a month (compared to Sky base of £20-odd), it probably will be... but we shall see. The Youview backwards EPG is incidentally also a big attraction for me, but in the meantime Sky's new On Demand setup will have to do (and does make me feel better about having to stay with them).

So therefore you want to dip your toes in to the premium content - i.e. sport. That's exactly what it's there for and that was the point I was making all along. It's why BT entered the market after all.

As for the BT Vision 'Essential' package being £5 compared to Sky's 'Entertainment' pack being £21.50... you can't really compare the two because the gap in quality is massive! With BT you're paying £5 for the 'privilege' of then paying 'from' 50p per show... that could end up costing a fortune for some people. The 'Unlimited' package is £12.50 but that's just on-demand stuff... there's no live TV in that option and that will no doubt come at an additional cost. At least with the cost of Sky's package you get live TV, the on-demand content included and you get to watch it on multiple devices etc.

If my sums are correct, to have Sky Sports direct from Sky with BB unlimited it'll cost £64.50 per month.

BT's cheapest option with YouView and unlimited BB is currently £41.75 per month but with that you get no live pay channels and you're charged 'from 50p' per show you watch on demand. How much will that £41.75 end up with a package of pay channels or with Sky Sports? Let's say, for arguments sake, they charged £20 for Sky Sports, it'd still be £61.75 per month and you'd still not get any additional channels and you'd still be charged 'from 50p' per show you watch, so for the sake of £2.75 I'd rather receive sports AND a load of extra channels with the on demand included. Imagine if they took the TalkTalk route and charged £30 for Sky Sports... that'd be a whopping £71.75 and still no additional channels!

I, for one, am eagerly awaiting the pricing and package structure that BT come out with because I can't see it being any cheaper than Sky for the same amount of content on offer.

The only way you'd get Sky Sports cheaper is if they offered it themselves through Now TV because you don't need to be on either BT or TalkTalk's broadband to access that player but as we know, there won't be any live option coming to the YouView player any time soon.

Not forgetting that Sky 1 and Sky Living and other third party entertainment channels along with Sky Movies and Sky Sports are already available as add-ons on TalkTalk's YouView.

Wonder if that deal has locked out BT, as their third party IPTV channels don't as yet include any Sky branded ones?

Isn't BT/YouView going to be using adaptive bitrate steaming in a future software update? If so, all the talk about 'HD channels' becomes irrelevant, since the stream will goto HD quality when there's available bandwidth. On a fibre optic connection, that probably won't be a issue.

(Provided that the streams are encoded that way of course by the content providers).

I don't think this point is up for debate, it's the cost of entry to the platform before you start paying for the sports content that is. If you don't want the content that you're compelled to buy before buying a sports pack then its quality is largely irrelevant, it's an unwanted cost.
Before you can get sports content in HD on Sky, you need to pay £31.75pm (£10.25 HD fee & £21.50 entertainment mix). It will be interesting to see if BT's entry to the market place will encourage Sky and VM to alter their charging structures. In fact, I suspect we may have already seen this with the substantial increases in line rental.

I doubt it, I think Sky will be keen to get revenue for these channels from as many platforms as possible. TalkTalk already had the Sky channels through its TalkTalk TV service so I assume the contracts carry over to the new platform. BT is more complicated as it will be a content provider in its own right and its has no pre-existing content rights to carry forward to its new platform except ESPN UK (if it continues) and the two Sky Sports channels via the CAT ruling (which Sky subsequently won but BT has recently appealed).

I welcome the entry of BT into the marketplace as it gives Sky its first truly near-national competition. It is double-edged sword though as its entry as aTV platform should keep pay-TV more price competitive but is acquisition of sporting rights means these are far more expensive.

Yes, thats right, BigFoot87. And of course within the next few years, access to fibre will be for the majority, not minority. Though I do not know what future services BT will offer over ADSL. so that should be interesting to see.

I don't agree with you there at all. In order to get a sports pack from BT, the comparable cost of entry would be over £40 quid because you'd be forced to take their phone and broadband and only then will you have the sports option available to you. Sky might force your hand to take a £21.50 pack first but it's only what BT are doing as well... For nowhere near as much content.