BT Vision essential with Sky Sports 1 & 2 and BT Infinity 1 appears to cost £43 a month.

Sky Entertainment with Sports 1 & 2 and Sky Fibre appears to cost £62.50 a month.

In both cases the line rental is extra but BT's best published line rental deal seems to cost more than Sky's but either way, that's the best part of (or more than) £20 a month saved with basic BT + football. I hope they will do something similar with their Youview/Vision packages next year (but they will probably get a bit closer to Sky, I'd imagine, due to the cost of buying the sports packages). The cost of HD may also make a difference (but I'm only interested in it if it's free).

The extra 'value' you talk about is irrelevant for me and many others who are only interested in Sky Sports for football and nothing else they have on offer.

But all will depend on BT's actual pricing when SS 1&2 become available on Youview from BT. Then, we shall see what's what. If nothing else, BT's entry in a big way should force providers to give lower price 'entry point' options and even Sky may have to bend on that point.

I'm not attempting to do a like-for-like content comparison between providers because as we know BT is still some way off launching its service. My point which picked up on someone else's is the likely effect this will have on the pricing for pay-tv and whether the requirement for a base package will cease.
One scenario would be for Sky to waive the base package requirement if you have broadband or telephony with them. I suspect most would keep the package as most buyers of pay-tv services are families but it would tackle this issue.
On another note, if people do comparisons between providers, I would bundle in broadband and telephony as essentials. Extra channels such as those included in Sky's entertainment mix are nice to have but not as essential as broadband or telephony.

You're forgetting the fact that BT currently undercut Sky on it and you're not factoring in anything about the CAT ruling. Not only that but you're looking at a sports package on a Vision+ box not a YouView box. You're also only talking about Sky Sports 1 & 2 - no 3, 4, F1 or News.

The extra 'value' is not irrelevant at all - in terms of your personal viewing habits perhaps it is but in the bigger picture, If you're paying around the same amount per month why would you NOT want additional content included? You'd be paying similar to both parties so I'd rather get bells & whistles included in comparison to the other option if the price was almost equal.

Not interested in SS 3/4/F1 as what I'm talking about is entry points + PL football, nearly all of which is on SS 1/2. I tried really hard to make that clear.

Not much point in speculating now about what any regulator or court rulings may or may not do to availability and pricing, we can only sensibly estimate things based on what's available now.

Which is exactly why i said "we shall see next year" (when BT launch fully on Youview.) And indeed we shall - but I fully expect to see a lower priced entry point into premium Premier League football. Competition does sometimes do that but if it doesn't, I will have the choice of staying where I am. The more choices, the better for consumers!

But BT are doing the same thing - just for broadband and phone instead! No matter what way you look at it, you'll still have to pay them £40+ before you can even begin to think about sports on top. You're making out like you can just go to BT, not take anything, and then have a sports sub for £20 per month or whatever... it's not like that AT ALL. They are doing the same as Sky and charging an entry fee.

One things for certain - if the television landscape does change, with the advent of full-blown IPTV services, Sky most certainly would adapt to the situation. Because their not stupid. lol. And that would be, price-wise, for the betterment of Sky users. And all users in general, because that would just help drive prices down. So it's a win-win situation.

Ok so based on what's available right now - Sky win as YouView (BT) offers ZERO with regard to live sport - that's the most sensible estimate currently available.

As for getting premium football at a cheaper rate - OBVIOUSLY you'll be able to do that by just using BT Sport 1 for 38 live matches but for somebody like yourself who I gather likes to watch a lot of live football (?), Sky Sports trumps them with 116 matches of a much higher quality and frequency. In the current set-up, would you be happy to JUST have ESPN? If that's a yes then I'm sure you'll be fine with BT Sport as a stand-alone... it'd certainly be cheaper for you.

Maybe, but you're talking way into the future. The current IPTV service can't actually deliver fully functional IPTV! Jury is most definitely out on YouView for some time yet.

What do you actually mean by 'way into the future?'

Yes, and that's why I retain SS and haven't got Youview yet! I'm planning ahead, as anyone else would be well advised to do before locking themselves into further 12/18 month contracts with anyone.


Whether or not I will want BT football will depend on its price + SS football price + basic entertainment package... compared to the nearest equivalent that Sky have on offer in 8 months or so's time. If both sets of prices are too high, cartel-like, I will unhappily ditch the lot on principle so it's up to them (there's always MOTD). Competition (true competition) rules, OK?

How long did YouView take to materialise? And when it did it still couldn't deliver what it had been designed for! IPTV is still a tadpole in comparison to satellite and even cable. YouView has lost a lot of peoples confidence already and the price points aren't exactly tempting. A lot of people still haven't even heard of it or have and don't really understand it.

The first indication of how well this platform will do is when BT really start to make people aware of their live sport content next year... I think they will also have quite a bit of influence over the success of the platform further down the line when the next PL tender goes out. If they went in hard in 2015, I may listen a bit more closely.

True competition would be like that in Italy (for example) where the same live football matches were available at the same time through Sky Sport on satellite and Mediaset Premium on DTT. Can you imagine that in the UK?! Over here, we don't have real competition in the sport market and that's just a sad fact. Sky won't budge and make somebody else's platform seem better and cheaper than their own for the same top content. BT NEED to make it work in order to shift triple play deals... Sky would very much like them to fail so don't be expecting a cheap deal where their channels are concerned on the rival platform... that's business.

The worst thing that ever happened was having the platform provider the same as the content provider... but it did happen so we have to get on with it.

Well the beauty of it is that I will have a free choice to take one, the other... or neither. Without BT entering the market in a big way, I would have had less choice. I can sit back and let them do the worrying about bundles, packages and pricing so for me, it's win-win.

Like you say, there's always MOTD

There is indeed but I don't think it will come to that.

Indeed. It won't. And we both agree there are exciting times ahead. And those times are most certainly not 'way out in the future'. lol

I'm glad you're happy to live in your bubble. I, myself, really wanted to take the plunge with YouView but once it became clear it was a shambles I decided to steer clear until next year at the earliest. I don't mind talking about all platforms because I have a keen interest but please don't come on here and be blind-eyed to how amazing one platform is and others not, because we've got enough people like you on here already and really don't need another one.

I believe those times ARE a way off in the future and like anything else, time will tell better than anything else........ lol

In terms of timescales, recordable IPTV channels will be available by next Summer from TalkTalk and BT with BT Sport launching at the latest in 8 months...so not far off really.

You're missing the point completely. I'm fully aware of those timescales. I was referring to an earlier post how IPTV is set to take over and become a major player imminently!

Imminently? Imminently? Really? Who said that? Because it most certainly wasn't me.

Not guilty either, me!

This is all getting rather cryptic! Can I take it your comments don't refer to recent posters like d@ve, VisionMan1 and me who have tried to take a balanced approach but instead refer to earlier posters?

Indeed they don't, 1Andrew1. Both yourself and d@ve are both fair and reasonable, and open-minded posters, too.

And I know d@ve from another forum. He and I have talked often about YouView, and about what the future may hold.

Oh, and I hope my posts have come across as fair and reasonable, too. As this has been an enjoyable thread to take part in.

I always enjoy entering into a discussion with yourself and Dave on this topic in the countless threads in the past. However, 'balanced approach' would be wide of the mark don't you think? I'm not referring to you or Dave there either because you two maintain that approach.