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Festival - Was It Fixed?


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Old 15-12-2012, 22:25
Pastificio
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Just caught up on iPlayer.

Sorry, I cannot believe that anyone at Womad would have parted with hard cash for one of those seat umbrellas. Ascot maybe, or Glyndebourne... but Womad?

I mean look at them - drab green, over-priced and aimed at the hunting 'n' shooting set. Plus it was baking hot on the day.

Sure, the Producers can't alter the products they chose - face paints being the no-brainer there. However, they can invite a few friends for the day, free tickets... have a fun time... and buy something for us, we'll tell you when.

Given the limited stock the teams had to sell, half a dozen 'stooges' could easily get the outcome LS wanted.

Why? Well the onesies were the one good choice, but the wrong team chose them, he wanted rid of those two lads.
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Old 15-12-2012, 22:42
george.millman
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I sincerely doubt it was fixed. That would make the whole show a sham. The Apprentice has been running since 2005, and it is my belief that the BBC would not con viewers in such a blatant way. Sure, there have been scandals like this in the past, and there will be again. The Apprentice itself has come under criticism for this kind of thing - specifically in Series 6, when it was revealed that Liz's famous deal to the shop for the BabyGlow product was fake. But I don't think they would fix the outcome of the task as much as that, I could be wrong though.

Besides, what would be the point of fixing it? There is only one week left, if Sugar didn't want Steven or Andrew to win and they were on the winning team this time, he could stick them on opposite teams next week and just choose the other person on next week's winning team.
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Old 15-12-2012, 22:45
Funky Phil
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I think this conspiracy theory is stretching the imagination just a little, Pastificio. Although I think reality programmes often have agendas about who they keep in the shows and who gets eliminated, I suspect driven by which players are making the best telly.
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Old 15-12-2012, 22:52
Pastificio
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I think this conspiracy theory is stretching the imagination just a little, Pastificio. Although I think reality programmes often have agendas about who they keep in the shows and who gets eliminated, I suspect driven by which players are making the best telly.
LS wants to keep Patrick in, just look at the reaction on this forum, it gets people going. He also didn't want to lose either of the other two on that team, they are both too strong.

Andrew had somehow scraped in, and Stephen was just a nice lad. Yet their team was clearly winning via the onesies until a sudden, late surge of umbrellas - how convenient.

Perhaps 'fixed' is too strong a word - 'massaged' perhaps?
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Old 15-12-2012, 23:08
martenla
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I think you're reading way too much into this. What you're proposing sounds way more implausible than a straightforward interpretation. The umbrellas were a useful gadget and Patrick was offering them at varying (sometimes quite large) discounts. WOMAD attracts an older middle class audience who have enough disposable income to invest in one. If they're regular festival goers they probably see it as being a good buy, even if it's not raining the day they purchase it.

People are willing to spend cash at these festivals, even the onesies were £40. The team that lost did so because even though the onesies were popular they didn't manage to sell a single washing machine.

I thought LS seemed quite keen on Andrew and Stephen, last week he said Stephen was streetwise and he told Andrew he reminded him of himself. If he was so keen to get rid of Andrew he's had plenty of opportunities. On the other hand he made it quite clear he wanted to fire Patrick in week 2 or 3 and Patrick has simply been lucky not to have been brought into the boardroom.

TL;DR no conspiracy! Just your standard, well edited TV show.
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Old 15-12-2012, 23:13
george.millman
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I think you're reading way too much into this. What you're proposing sounds way more implausible than a straightforward interpretation. The umbrellas were a useful gadget and Patrick was offering them at varying (sometimes quite large) discounts. WOMAD attracts an older middle class audience who have enough disposable income to invest in one. If they're regular festival goers they probably see it as being a good buy, even if it's not raining the day they purchase it.

People are willing to spend cash at these festivals, even the onesies were £40. The team that lost did so because even though the onesies were popular they didn't manage to sell a single washing machine.

I thought LS seemed quite keen on Andrew and Stephen, last week he said Stephen was streetwise and he told Andrew he reminded him of himself. If he was so keen to get rid of Andrew he's had plenty of opportunities. On the other hand he made it quite clear he wanted to fire Patrick in week 2 or 3 and Patrick has simply been lucky not to have been brought into the boardroom.

TL;DR no conspiracy! Just your standard, well edited TV show.
I completely agree. I know not many people agree with me, but I don't believe Sugar is swayed by the producers at all, at least when it comes to who to fire (I know they have some say in what the tasks are.) I imagine that in some countries like the US, it's more based on entertainment, but Sugar strikes me as being a man who makes up his own mind, generally for good reasons, and not someone who would take any notice of the producers. If I'm wrong, Sugar is an awesome actor, because he totally has me convinced.
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Old 15-12-2012, 23:19
Pastificio
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Yeah, you guys are probably right, and I love the show. Perhaps Womad is slightly different to how I perceive it.

Both teams should have been fired for not choosing the face paints, though, with Nick and Karen in the final
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Old 17-12-2012, 02:23
Paulie Walnuts
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Can someone remind me of how much the face paints cost please? If I recall correctly they were stupidly expensive.
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Old 17-12-2012, 06:36
CaroUK
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£18 I believe - ridiculously expensive!
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Old 17-12-2012, 07:51
brb
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Can someone remind me of how much the face paints cost please? If I recall correctly they were stupidly expensive.

They were vegan face paints (as a vegan, I know they are hard to come by!). The point was that it was a hippy festival, therefore lots of vegans and vegetarians (since it's debatable whether normal facepaint is vegetarian or not - many vegetarians dont seem to think squashed bugs to make the red colour count as animals!). So really, buying a lot like Sugar said should have left for a tidy profit.
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Old 17-12-2012, 11:05
haphash
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I would have chosen the onesies and the face paints to sell at Womad.

I'm amazed they managed to sell as many of those umbrella seats at those prices. I really thought that the team with the onesies would win.

I can't believe that these kids actually thought that people would want to do washing or carry round a portable toilet !!!!

I think the umbrella sales prove that Patrick is far from useless. In fact I like him better than any of the girls left and hope he wins.
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Old 17-12-2012, 19:23
hawk001
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I completely agree. I know not many people agree with me, but I don't believe Sugar is swayed by the producers at all, at least when it comes to who to fire (I know they have some say in what the tasks are.) I imagine that in some countries like the US, it's more based on entertainment, but Sugar strikes me as being a man who makes up his own mind, generally for good reasons, and not someone who would take any notice of the producers. If I'm wrong, Sugar is an awesome actor, because he totally has me convinced.
I did think that the "whoever loses, we'll fire two-thirds of you" change of format - in the semi-final, of all times - reflected that the show is about entertainment, not business. It raised the stakes which made the episode more compelling viewing. Unfair? Yes. A toss of the dice? Yes. Better TV? Yes.
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Old 17-12-2012, 19:54
george.millman
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I did think that the "whoever loses, we'll fire two-thirds of you" change of format - in the semi-final, of all times - reflected that the show is about entertainment, not business. It raised the stakes which made the episode more compelling viewing. Unfair? Yes. A toss of the dice? Yes. Better TV? Yes.
They had to do something like that, because they can't have an odd number of people in the final; it wouldn't work with the teams.

Last year he fired the entire losing team in the semi-final, regardless of how they had done previously in the series. That was grossly unfair, but was more entertaining. Surely if it was based on entertainment alone that would have happened again this year?
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Old 18-12-2012, 13:03
slouchingthatch
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Can someone remind me of how much the face paints cost please? If I recall correctly they were stupidly expensive.
I had it down in my notes for my blog at £24. Of course, that's just the recommended retail price. Personally, assuming that they only cost a few quid to make - and products like that tend to have high margins - I'd have been looking to sell them for around £15 if it had been me.

My immediate reaction on seeing all the products was to think that they would sell really well if offered alongside the onesies - offered as a buy one of each for £X type of deal. I know Sugar also liked the hats, but the cross-selling opportunity of the costumes and facepaints would, I think, have worked well.
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Old 19-12-2012, 11:02
junglejuice
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The whole thing is staged! It's TV entertainment. Not one spontaneous moment in the whole series.
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Old 19-12-2012, 18:50
REDBUS
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Just caught up on iPlayer.

Sorry, I cannot believe that anyone at Womad would have parted with hard cash for one of those seat umbrellas. Ascot maybe, or Glyndebourne... but Womad?

I mean look at them - drab green, over-priced and aimed at the hunting 'n' shooting set. Plus it was baking hot on the day.

Sure, the Producers can't alter the products they chose - face paints being the no-brainer there. However, they can invite a few friends for the day, free tickets... have a fun time... and buy something for us, we'll tell you when.

Given the limited stock the teams had to sell, half a dozen 'stooges' could easily get the outcome LS wanted.

Why? Well the onesies were the one good choice, but the wrong team chose them, he wanted rid of those two lads.
when Joe public know their being filmed and have worked out what show it is ,their paying to get on tv as well as buy whatever overpriced gimmick's their selling ,lets be honest ,if there weren't any camera's it would be very different story sales wise IMO
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Old 19-12-2012, 19:03
george.millman
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The whole thing is staged! It's TV entertainment. Not one spontaneous moment in the whole series.
This is the eleventh series of The Apprentice. If the entire show was staged, I think it's likely that it wouldn't have lasted as long as it has. And, you'd think some former candidates would have spoken out to say it was staged.
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Old 20-12-2012, 08:37
slouchingthatch
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This is the eleventh series of The Apprentice. If the entire show was staged, I think it's likely that it wouldn't have lasted as long as it has. And, you'd think some former candidates would have spoken out to say it was staged.
I think there is a large element of artificiality about the tasks - how could there not be when the teams are followed around by Nick or Karren plus a camera crew? - and parts of the task are clearly "prepared" for the teams (focus groups, some sales appontments etc) in the interests of making the tasks manageable in a reasonable space of time, but staged? Nah.

Also, am I right in thinking that people such as shopkeepers must first have signed a release form granting their permission to be shown on TV? That's not so much staging as dealing with legalities, but it all adds to the unseen complexity behind filming the show that we never get to see on our screens. Ah, the magic of TV!
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Old 20-12-2012, 13:15
racol5
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The seat umbrella for a fes is a great idea. Just leaning your body on one when watching a show is comfortable. Couple of years ago went to Silverstone Grand Prix with one (more seat than umbrella). You could see people just wishing they'd had one. Would have been great to have the umbrella bit as well as the whole weekend was rainy
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Old 20-12-2012, 13:32
slouchingthatch
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The seat umbrella for a fes is a great idea. Just leaning your body on one when watching a show is comfortable. Couple of years ago went to Silverstone Grand Prix with one (more seat than umbrella). You could see people just wishing they'd had one. Would have been great to have the umbrella bit as well as the whole weekend was rainy
It's great for something like a GP but it wasn't such a great idea for Womad, though, as it was stated in the boardroom that the weather on the day was actually dry. Also I suspect the seat wouldn't have been much use when watching acts, as you would need to stand up to see. Patrick did decently to sell some, but he would have sold a lot more of the costumes and face paints, not to mention the (frankly horrible) hats.
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Old 20-12-2012, 13:40
george.millman
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I think there is a large element of artificiality about the tasks - how could there not be when the teams are followed around by Nick or Karren plus a camera crew? - and parts of the task are clearly "prepared" for the teams (focus groups, some sales appontments etc) in the interests of making the tasks manageable in a reasonable space of time, but staged? Nah.

Also, am I right in thinking that people such as shopkeepers must first have signed a release form granting their permission to be shown on TV? That's not so much staging as dealing with legalities, but it all adds to the unseen complexity behind filming the show that we never get to see on our screens. Ah, the magic of TV!
Oh yes, totally right. They have lots of things set up for them. I did hear something interesting though... apparently the drivers of the cars are not allowed to tell anyone of their involvement with the programme, and there was one time a team were inside a building for something, and the police found the driver outside, saw all the women's handbags in the back and thought he had stolen them, and took him off for questioning! And he completely followed the rules and told them nothing about who he was. Meanwhile, the team left the building, found the car gone and thought it was part of the task!
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Old 20-12-2012, 13:56
slouchingthatch
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Oh yes, totally right. They have lots of things set up for them. I did hear something interesting though... apparently the drivers of the cars are not allowed to tell anyone of their involvement with the programme, and there was one time a team were inside a building for something, and the police found the driver outside, saw all the women's handbags in the back and thought he had stolen them, and took him off for questioning! And he completely followed the rules and told them nothing about who he was. Meanwhile, the team left the building, found the car gone and thought it was part of the task!
I hadn't heard that before. That's genius.
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Old 20-12-2012, 19:09
mimi123456
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I think if it was fixed, he would have gotten rid of Maria and Patrick.

I always got the impression he really liked Stephen and wanted him to win.
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Old 21-12-2012, 23:54
Pastificio
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Okay, I started this thread because I was left with a nagging doubt as regards the umbrella sales, that I couldn't put my finger on.

So I watched it again and did some homework...

The couple who buy the first umbrella are wearing BBC Radio 3 i.d. passes around their necks.

BBC Radio 3 do not sponsor WOMAD, but they do broadcast some of the acts.

Also, later, a lady with an identical pass buys a toilet.

Very few of the crowd have such passes, just the number you'd expect as 'freebies' to BBC employees, perhaps?

I'm not suggested the programme is fixed, but it is curious, none the less.
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