That's because overall there are more commercial channels available than BBC channels. It isn't rocket science! But to throw water on your fire, considering the few BBC channels compared to commercial channels, it is clear from the ratings that BBC programmes are generally more popular and have a much more loyal fanbase than commercial channels.

With around 200 commercial channels (or at least a couple dozen in Freeview homes) to the BBC's five (at any one time), it should hardly be otherwise!


Brightest looks awful on the trailer, a cross between Test the Nation, Krypton Factor and BGT.

It will sink without trace, no matter which national treasure is presenting it.

And it's up against a teenage boy in Speedos which will tie up the female and gay man audience.

Danny Cohen was thinking how to try and continue the 2012 momentum into 2013 and that where the 'Love 2013' idea came from. A way to tell the audience that BBC1 had more good stuff on the way


Taking out the big sporting events and BBC1 still had a great year. Would have been better had The Voice not fallen away and EastEnders had such a huge dip in ratings fortune. They have some potentially good shows on the horizon so more big ratings look possible. ITV also have a very promising year ahead.

Some of the big ratings talking points for 2013 will be how high Call The Midwife can go with series 2, whether or not The Voice can be a hit in series 2 and changes made to the next series of The X Factor to boost ratings.

My sister luves Tom Daley so we will be watching splash lol

But wouldn't the same apply to timeshifted viewers who watched a TV programme on a BBC channel as well which hasn't got a +1 channel?
Many of those viewers may be rewatching a show again too?

TV bosses listen to critics too much and get caught up with awards. Big, broad, mass appeal sitcoms bring in the viewers not the small ones with little appeal.

This argument is freely dismissed by those who like to add on +1 figures. A previous post of mine suggested that if Call The Midwife was repeated on Christmas night on BBC3 at 8.45pm, the viewing figures would be irrelevant because BBC3 is classed as a separate channel.

Yet ITV+1, with a different channel number is regarded as the same channel as ITV1 so that ITV looks better in the ratings than it actually is.

As I say can BARB see who is watching twice and filter them out of final ratings? If they can't then I don't think they should be included.

Yes they can do that but I doubt they'll care that much!

That's a very good point. But if it is literally the same channel one hour later is it actually different?

I think one of the problems with ITV at the moment is that they have a tendency to just sit and wait and see what some other channel does first. They seem to be reactive rather than innovative and see what is a hit for somebody else first and then try to replicate what currently appears to be in fashion.

Unfortunately for them by the time it takes for them to copy a format everyone else has moved on and something else is in vogue and they miss the bandwagon.

Occasionally they do get a bit brave and they did really well with Downtown Abbey. I don't think anybody saw that coming.
They probably have the talent, it's just that I think they need to be a bit braver and take risks more often.

As you say, for the last few years I've felt the same as you when it comes to ITV at Christmas. It really does feel like they throw in the towel and don't try. Maybe so it gives them an excuse and they can say that they lost out on the ratings because they weren't even trying?
But I thought that for the first half of the Christmas break ITV really were a bit better than they usually are.

I think that the talent is probably there somewhere at ITV. I just think they need a bit more vision and need to be a bit less reactive and more proactive. They sometimes get it right when they take a bit of a risk.

Here's a little ratings stat for you:

Geordie Shore (MTV 18th Dec 11pm) was more popular amongst 16-24 year old's than that Friday's Emmerdale (334k to 320k).

With 6 episodes of Emmerdale a week, the future for ITV1 is.... not so bright.

For those wondering.

The Chase vs Pointless - Breakdown excluding +1
17:00 - 2.33m (16.3%)
17:05 - 2.74m (18.4%)
17:10 - 3.01m (19.5%)
17:15 - 3.28m (20.7%) vs 2.81m (17.7%)
17:20 - 3.38m (20.7%) vs 2.94m (18.0%)
17:25 - 3.66m (22.1%) vs 3.05m (18.4%)
17:30 - 3.56m (21.2%) vs 3.24m (19.3%)
17:35 - 3.82m (22.0%) vs 3.44m (19.8%)
17:40 - 3.94m (22.3%) vs 3.60m (20.3%)
17:45 - 3.93m (21.7%) vs 3.93m (21.7%)
17:50 - 4.30m (23.1%) vs 3.95m (21.2%)
17:55 - n/a vs 4.98m (26.5%)

They don't simulcast and have different channel numbers.

Of course they are different channels!

Yes. It is different. Because it artificially inflates the actual viewing figures for a certain timeslot. For instance if more people chose to watch BBC1 at 8pm, then why should those viewers be regarded lesser to those viewers who watched a programme on ITV+1 an hour after ITV broadcast it? It totally undermines the importance of the BBC win at 8pm. It basically makes viewing figures totally irrelevant.

When people were declaring EastEnders was in crisis and saying how Emmerdale beat it, not once were BBC3's repeat showing figures added on so that overall EE wasn't beat by Emmerdale. It just seems to be selective to use +1 figures. If ITV win outright for instance, +1 figures are rarely mentioned. Yet if BBC1 win, +1 figures are included to undermine the BBC victory.

I agree because at the recent Comedy Awards on Channel 4 Mrs. Brown's Boys didn't even get nominated for anything.
Which really is shameful.

I think with the +1 channels they act more like a PVR or video recorder in effect. Which is what they are actually supposed to be seen as.

People don't treat it as an individual 'proper' channel in its own right such as watching a repeat on say BBC3 which also has its own programming with different programmes.

If a new show is due to be broadcast people don't say that they'll have to tune in to watch it on ITV+1, they'll think of it as being on ITV. They treat +1 channels as catchup television like a video recorder or IPlayer.

I'm not 'arguing' anything. I would just like an across the board 'official' standardised method of looking at this as I don't like the way that different people play with the stats in different ways to suit their own bias and thus different conclusions are reached. No real consensus that all parties can seem to agree with.

Somebody posted something on this thread yesterday which I agreed with. In that the overnights are probably the way commercial channels judge whether something is successful to them or not, and the BBC can just tot up all their figures to get the official max amount of ratings over time because they don't need to appease any sponsors.

I don't know which is the 'right' way or the best way I just hope that people come to a consensus about how ratings should be measured or perceived soon because I think so much time is wasted arguing about what did better than what when different approaches to how we perceive the ratings are argued over.
Something which has been argued to death on here for many years with no sign of light at the end of the tunnel.

In that case (BIB), iPlayer viewings should be included then. This would be fairer. And would also put Call The Midwife ahead by 760,000! But iPlayer isn't allowed to be included in the officials.

But as I say, what's the difference between doing that and somebody watching a show on BBC 1, recording it on their PVR, and then watching it again on their PVR recorder?

I do that myself if something is good enough.

+1 channels aren't really channels in their own right. They are literally timeshifted versions of all TV shows from the channel they are timeshifted from. Their primary function is to act as catchup television.

You can watch a TV show on a TV channel and then watch it again on its +1 channel if you wish.
You can watch a TV show on a TV channel and then watch it again on your PVR if you recorded it if you wish.

I don't really see a difference.
I think that you either count the timeshifts in or you don't.
I don't mind which as long as there's a consensus opinion.

Interesting to see that on share at Christmas Coronation Street beat East Enders on the night.

Share is a good measure of popularity of a show as it reveals how many watching TV at that point chose it over the rest.

That would give Miranda, Mrs Brown and Corrie as the top three which I think reveals a sort of reality behind the figures this year.

Of course, raw viewing live matters for advertising so I understand why that gets priority. But share removes the skew of time slots that matter less over Christmas.

Yes I'm looking through my TV guide right now and am having trouble deciding whether I want to watch ITV1 or ITV1+1 tonight.
Decisions decisions, I'm at a dilemma here.

As it does with traditional timeshifting.

I would agree.

That looks like a pretty big rating for Corrie last night, the Wednesday episodes haven't been doing that well until now have they?

increasingly, they are. With VM and now Sky VOD viewings being included, a significant amount of iPlayer (about 20% of them) now get included in the official numbers and that is set to increase...

K