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Old 18-12-2012, 22:18
petertard
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...we need to spend more money on it, not less. Indeed, we need a national centre like the cycling centre in Manchester. We need to train our swimmers exclusively in 50m Olympic-sized pools.
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Old 19-12-2012, 10:48
Meepers
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Nononononononononononononononono

We dont need to follow the old British thing of if in doubt, throw money at it. It doesnt work, and never will.

Look to sports that succeed, and it is those that use intelligence, innovation and though that succeed.

As the paper picked up today, it was only when hockey in this country virtually went bust that results improved, because it made them actually use new techniques and innovation

Swimming has a huge amount spent on it, arguably far too much relative to the success its ever delivered. If we just think money is the answer we'll head back to the dark ages of British sport
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Old 19-12-2012, 11:03
grassmarket
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...we need to spend more money on it, not less. Indeed, we need a national centre like the cycling centre in Manchester. We need to train our swimmers exclusively in 50m Olympic-sized pools.
There are many 50m pools more than there are velodromes, bobsleigh tracks or canoe slalom courses.
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Old 19-12-2012, 12:28
blacksuit42
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Disagree...
What we need to do is put a clear strategy in place whereby the swimmers potential is bought out them. We have the talent, we just have to nurture it so that come 2016 we have swimmers at their best.

One of the things that went wrong this year was holding the trials back in March. They should be held closer to the date, like the Americans do, that way we know that the swimmers will be on form and close to their peak of performance.
Another thing to do is put more emphasis on swimming fast in morning sessions, something which we're not very good at doing. Just doing the bare minimum to qualify for a final/semi final isn't the best thing to do. The swimmers should be putting in at least 90% into morning swims, and then upping that to 100% in the evening swims.
There needs to be more input at a grassroots level too. As a swimming teacher, I'm seeing more and more kids not wanting to learn to swim, but preferring to play sports such as football as it's seen as more glamorous by the kids. It's a shame that they're not encouraged by their parents as I'd like to see, especially when I see swimmers with fantastic potential having that potential wasted as their parents capitulate to their kids wanting to play another sport.
I think there needs to be better training for club coaches as well. At one of the pools I teach at, none of the coaches are properly qualified, one is a level 2 swimming teacher but not an ASA certified coach. there's some swimmers there who do have the potential to be good, but they're being held back. What the ASA and British swimming need to be doing at the club level is making sure that the coaches know what they're doing and are trained to the highest standards, otherwise what talent we have will slip away!
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Old 19-12-2012, 12:33
blacksuit42
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Plus, if anyone followed the World Short Course champs, we went out with a weakened team, not all of our best swimmers were there. But the team that went out did fantastically! 6 medals; 1 gold 2 silvers and 3 Bronzes... in my opinion, not a bad haul coming off the back of the Olympics!
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Old 19-12-2012, 20:16
Muttley76
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we need to focus funding on people like Michael Jamieson who hit their targets or over achieve, and less on those that have consistently promised but failed to deliver when it matters most.

The money they have is still a good old chunk they just need to invest it more carefully.

In some ways, cutting funding can be an effective motivator for people as well, imho.
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Old 19-12-2012, 20:17
Muttley76
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Plus, if anyone followed the World Short Course champs, we went out with a weakened team, not all of our best swimmers were there. But the team that went out did fantastically! 6 medals; 1 gold 2 silvers and 3 Bronzes... in my opinion, not a bad haul coming off the back of the Olympics!
trouble is thats the same old story, we've seen it for years how our swimmers do well outside of the olympics and then get it wrong when it matters most.
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Old 19-12-2012, 20:26
indiana44
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trouble is thats the same old story, we've seen it for years how our swimmers do well outside of the olympics and then get it wrong when it matters most.
I would also add, so we went with a "weakened team", how about all the other nations and how strong their teams were ?
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Old 19-12-2012, 20:46
indiana44
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Such a contrast between the cycling squad and their ability to peak and perform when it really matters as against the swimming squad.

Would be fascinating to see how Dave Brailsford and his abilities in recruiting the best folk and organising things, and his famous supposed ability to look for every little thing that can add even a tiny percentage improvement, would do as overall head of the swimmers.
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Old 20-12-2012, 07:29
Tiger Rose
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I would also add, so we went with a "weakened team", how about all the other nations and how strong their teams were ?
Actually I would say our team wasn't that weak - Jameson, Miley, Halsall, Simmonds, Lowe were all there.
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Old 20-12-2012, 07:33
Sue_Aitch
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On this one, you do need to diffentiate between the swimming team we had at the Olympics and the swimming team we had at the Paralympics.

The Paralympic portion of the overall funds has risen from 16% of the total budget to 20%, with swimming, athletics and cycling all being rewarded for their success with big rises, but archery and powerlifting cut.
Source http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/swimming/20755022

The fact that Jessica-Jane Applegate and Josef Craig were both up for Young SPOTY as well as Ellie being in the 12 up for the main award on Sunday last underscores the contrast within Our Greatest Team.
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Old 20-12-2012, 07:36
Tiger Rose
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Such a contrast between the cycling squad and their ability to peak and perform when it really matters as against the swimming squad.

Would be fascinating to see how Dave Brailsford and his abilities in recruiting the best folk and organising things, and his famous supposed ability to look for every little thing that can add even a tiny percentage improvement, would do as overall head of the swimmers.
I think they could probably do with Dr Steve Peters or someone of his ilk - they did seem to mentally struggle a bit in London. Whereas most others got inspired by the home crowds the swimmers seemed to be crushed by it.
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Old 20-12-2012, 07:42
Muttley76
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On this one, you do need to diffentiate between the swimming team we had at the Olympics and the swimming team we had at the Paralympics.

Source http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/swimming/20755022

The fact that Jessica-Jane Applegate and Josef Craig were both up for Young SPOTY as well as Ellie being in the 12 up for the main award on Sunday last underscores the contrast within Our Greatest Team.
in fairness, even the Paralympic swimming team did very slightly under perform, missing their target by one medal.
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Old 20-12-2012, 10:58
blacksuit42
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Actually I would say our team wasn't that weak - Jameson, Miley, Halsall, Simmonds, Lowe were all there.
I never said it was a weak team... I said it was weakened. Yes some of the big guns were there but quite a few weren't!
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Old 20-12-2012, 14:26
Mark F
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The odd thing is our swimmers do fairly well in the other major meetings but it seems the pressure/expectation got to them in London whereas others thrived on it.
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Old 22-12-2012, 20:48
Department_S
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We have to face it that China and USA spend fortunes on their swimming programmes and they pay off. I have sympathy with the OP's point to a certain extent
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Old 23-12-2012, 01:32
Mark F
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True whereas we were always going to be the top nation in cycling and rowing...
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Old 23-12-2012, 13:25
indiana44
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True whereas we were always going to be the top nation in cycling and rowing...
Thankfully the cyclists and rowers didn't assume that and seemed to almost leave no stone unturned in relentless pursuit of being all they could be and peaking at the right time.

And a lot of the detail that they cover is just relentlessly looking for that extra fraction of a percent and often doesn't cost that much.
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Old 23-12-2012, 15:45
Muttley76
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True whereas we were always going to be the top nation in cycling and rowing...
but the point is the target set for the swimmers was pretty small at the olympics, no was expecting them to challenge china and the USA, so i feel that point is moot. They were set a target of 5-7 meddles and managed only 3, and really Jamison is the only swimmer who can walk away with his head held high in the context of London 2012 (Addlington, of course, has delivered in her career overall but would sill be somewhat disappointed).

The target set was perfectly attainable.
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Old 23-12-2012, 19:07
Mark F
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Fair point...you would have hoped for at least more bronze medals and even 2nd which we do seen in the worlds.

The ladies were particularly disappointing.
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Old 23-12-2012, 20:21
Virtual Paul
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The thing that stood out for me, as someone that knows nothing about swimming other than what is shown at these major comps, is that the Brits seemed mostly to be undersized compared to the yanks.

Ellie Simmonds seems to be the exception where the lanky swimmers have the advantage.

Maybe they should search for new talent like the rowers did when they found Helen Glover just a few years ago and gave her a trial as she had the right body to provide the lever advantage. In case anyone doesn't know, she was the first Brit gold medal winner of 2012, along with Heather Stanning, and if I remember right, they are the first female gold medal rowers GB have ever had.

Helen also had the best legs on show at this year's SPOTY. Yes I am biased, I'm male!
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Old 25-12-2012, 09:05
Department_S
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but the point is the target set for the swimmers was pretty small at the olympics, no was expecting them to challenge china and the USA, so i feel that point is moot. They were set a target of 5-7 meddles and managed only 3, and really Jamison is the only swimmer who can walk away with his head held high in the context of London 2012 (Addlington, of course, has delivered in her career overall but would sill be somewhat disappointed).

The target set was perfectly attainable.
A very happy Christmas to the Olympic forum.

I am a little uncomfortable with medal targets in swimmimg. We supposedly did well in Beijing but only because of Adlington. Yes our medal target would have been achieved if Adlington or Miley had responded. But in swimming you just have one fantastic swimmer who multi medals and the opportunities just get taken away. In 2012 we had the Chinese and US swimmers producing a number of spectacular individuals at our expense. We just need one swimmer like this and we could had got all the medal targets - there's an element of lottery about it. An expensive lottery.
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Old 26-12-2012, 19:20
Meepers
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A very happy Christmas to the Olympic forum.

I am a little uncomfortable with medal targets in swimmimg. We supposedly did well in Beijing but only because of Adlington. Yes our medal target would have been achieved if Adlington or Miley had responded. But in swimming you just have one fantastic swimmer who multi medals and the opportunities just get taken away. In 2012 we had the Chinese and US swimmers producing a number of spectacular individuals at our expense. We just need one swimmer like this and we could had got all the medal targets - there's an element of lottery about it. An expensive lottery.
Thats the same as many sports with low medal targets, if specific individuals/team dont win, you fail. Swimming is a shambles in this country and deserves no special treatment
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Old 27-12-2012, 20:04
indiana44
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A very happy Christmas to the Olympic forum.

I am a little uncomfortable with medal targets in swimmimg. We supposedly did well in Beijing but only because of Adlington. Yes our medal target would have been achieved if Adlington or Miley had responded. But in swimming you just have one fantastic swimmer who multi medals and the opportunities just get taken away. In 2012 we had the Chinese and US swimmers producing a number of spectacular individuals at our expense. We just need one swimmer like this and we could had got all the medal targets - there's an element of lottery about it. An expensive lottery.
Err, Adlington did win bronze medals in both her events, so did as much as she could for the medal target ( though she clearly hoped for a different colour particularly in the 800 M ) and Miley was probably realistically only going for one medal in the 400 IM with hopes, but a much more outside chance, of a 200 IM medal. So really between these two we only missed out on one medal for which there was realistic expectations. So that would still have left us on 4, and short of the 5 to 7 target.

I think it is generally fair to set a medals target and this could have been achieved. Yes, if others perform extraordinarly well that is outside their control. But what is within their control is achieving their very best ( indeed it was not unrealistic to hope that some like Micheal Jamieson would reach new levels at the Olympics instead of him standing out as beating the trend ). Far too many of our swimmers performed below their best and indeed often slower than they had achieved in the trials. In all circumstrances, I think it proved a realistic medals target and unfortunately British swimming as a whole failed to deliver.
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Old 29-12-2012, 06:43
Department_S
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Err, Adlington did win bronze medals in both her events, so did as much as she could for the medal target ( though she clearly hoped for a different colour particularly in the 800 M ) and Miley was probably realistically only going for one medal in the 400 IM with hopes, but a much more outside chance, of a 200 IM medal. So really between these two we only missed out on one medal for which there was realistic expectations. So that would still have left us on 4, and short of the 5 to 7 target.

I think it is generally fair to set a medals target and this could have been achieved. Yes, if others perform extraordinarly well that is outside their control. But what is within their control is achieving their very best ( indeed it was not unrealistic to hope that some like Micheal Jamieson would reach new levels at the Olympics instead of him standing out as beating the trend ). Far too many of our swimmers performed below their best and indeed often slower than they had achieved in the trials. In all circumstrances, I think it proved a realistic medals target and unfortunately British swimming as a whole failed to deliver.
Britain held its Olympic trials in March this year, 13 weeks before start of the Games, and a number of swimmers experienced a decline in performance levels during the intervening period. Michael Phelps has commented that we need to move our trials to no more than 6 weeks before the Games.
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