[XxBlaKOuTZxX]

I signed up to Psn+ last night, after much thought and I have to admit i'm quite impressed with it.

For £29.99 (special offer) I got/get lots of full games for free as part of my subscription (quite a good deal for those that don't have much money to buy new games each month).


Now, what I would like to know is if those that subscribe to XBL (I also subscribe to XBL) think that MS should do something along the same lines ?. I mean we pay our £30+ sub for XBL and don't receive much in the way of freebies. It is also my understanding that gamer's, not all but some, are getting fed up with having to pay to play online with XBL. Is it time for a change ?. Should gaming on Live be made free and a + subscription brought in with free content/games being offered to those that sign up ?.

My XBL sub is due to end in March and I'm unsure if I will renew it as it's becoming quite expensive to keep gaming on that console what with the sub and the new games and season passes and the like. It all adds up. Yeah I know you still have to purchase the new games for the Ps3 but there's no paying to play online and that for a lot of gamer's, makes all the difference.

[Flawed-Tactics]

XBL should have something similar but MS won't do it, to tight fisted, it would be a start if they made online gaming free.

I think XBL should be totally free if they're only offering online features.

Mind nobody knows what Sony will start charging for next gen...

[SimonB79]

Originally Posted by XxBlaKOuTZxX

I signed up to Psn+ last night, after much thought and I have to admit i'm quite impressed with it.

For £29.99 (special offer) I got/get lots of full games for free as part of my subscription (quite a good deal for those that don't have much money to buy new games each month).


Now, what I would like to know is if those that subscribe to XBL (I also subscribe to XBL) think that MS should do something along the same lines ?. I mean we pay our £30+ sub for XBL and don't receive much in the way of freebies. It is also my understanding that gamer's, not all but some, are getting fed up with having to pay to play online with XBL. Is it time for a change ?. Should gaming on Live be made free and a + subscription brought in with free content/games being offered to those that sign up ?.

My XBL sub is due to end in March and I'm unsure if I will renew it as it's becoming quite expensive to keep gaming on that console what with the sub and the new games and season passes and the like. It all adds up. Yeah I know you still have to purchase the new games for the Ps3 but there's no paying to play online and that for a lot of gamer's, makes all the difference.

IF money's tight stick with PS+ & drop XBL ... Simple.

[DJGM]

It's a case of "You get what you pay for" ... with XBox LIVE, you get a secure, well managed (aside from a few immature
brats who shouldn't be playing 18+ games like CoD and GTA) online multiplayer service that has never been hacked.

With PSN, with the main multiplayer service being free, you're much more likely to get an over-subscribed, laggy, buggy
experience, where the security has been ripped apart on more than one occasion, and once took the whole thing offline
for weeks after millions of PSN users had their personal data stored on the system stolen by cyber-criminals.

It's certainly good for pirates though, the system firmware often gets hacked to bits, so you can run copied games on
a PS3, and you're unlikely to get your console banned from the PSN ... entirely the opposite of XBox LIVE. Run any
pirated game on an XBox360 while it's online, and it's very likely to get banned eventually.

[thomas2400]

Originally Posted by DJGM

It's a case of "You get what you pay for" ... with XBox LIVE, you get a secure, well managed (aside from a few immature
brats who shouldn't be playing 18+ games like CoD and GTA) online multiplayer service that has never been hacked.

With PSN, with the main multiplayer service being free, you're much more likely to get an over-subscribed, laggy, buggy
experience, where the security has been ripped apart on more than one occasion, and once took the whole thing offline
for weeks after millions of PSN users had their personal data stored on the system stolen by cyber-criminals.

It's certainly good for pirates though, the system firmware often gets hacked to bits, so you can run copied games on
a PS3, and you're unlikely to get your console banned from the PSN ... entirely the opposite of XBox LIVE. Run any
pirated game on an XBox360 while it's online, and it's very likely to get banned eventually.

I get what your saying but i get 65 games a year £30

on XBLA you get a service that could easily be hacked but they haven't bothered and you pay for online

Please tell me how anyone can justify paying for Xbox Live Gold to get online on games and then pay for an online pass to play the game on line

So in regards to PS Plus i'll stick with my paid service where i actually pay for what i get

[DJGM]

Originally Posted by thomas2400

Please tell me how anyone can justify paying for Xbox Live Gold to get online
on games and then pay for an online pass to play the game on line

With XBox LIVE being a paid service, you're guaranteed a better QoS, and vastly better online security than Sony PSN.
XBox LIVE hasn't had any major security problems, such as data theft that takes the entire service offline for weeks.

As for the "Online pass" thing, that's usually up to individual game developers, and is mostly about buying several DLC
addons in one go (e.g. Saints Row The Third Season Pass) at a discount, rather than separately for the full price.

Of course, if you wish to stick with a console that has got worse with each hardware revision, don't let me stop you.

[SimonB79]

Originally Posted by DJGM

With XBox LIVE being a paid service, you're guaranteed a better QoS, and vastly better online security than Sony PSN.
XBox LIVE hasn't had any major security problems, such as data theft that takes the entire service offline for weeks.

As for the "Online pass" thing, that's usually up to individual game developers, and is mostly about buying several DLC
addons in one go (e.g. Saints Row The Third Season Pass) at a discount, rather than separately for the full price.

Of course, if you wish to stick with a console that has got worse with each hardware revision, don't let me stop you.

TBH.. The Microsoft **get what ya pay for** propaganda doesn't wash with me ... I've used Live & PSNetwork for years & both r pretty much identical when it comes 2 online play... The only difference is the fact Sony give u 65 games per year & bigger cloudstorage ...

[Hotbird]

Originally Posted by DJGM

As for the "Online pass" thing, that's usually up to individual game developers, and is mostly about buying several DLC
addons in one go (e.g. Saints Row The Third Season Pass) at a discount, rather than separately for the full price.

An online pass unlocks access to the games online multi-player component and normally cost over a fiver if you buy a game pre-owned. This fee to unlock the online component of the game still requires an addition fee to MS to actual use the online component.

A Season Pass is a bundle deal to pay for DLC content upfront.

Two different things.

[Conroy]

Originally Posted by DJGM

With XBox LIVE being a paid service, you're guaranteed a better QoS, and vastly better online security than Sony PSN.
XBox LIVE hasn't had any major security problems, such as data theft that takes the entire service offline for weeks.

Except for people that had money taken from their accounts after other XBL users somehow managed to obtain log-in information from this super secure service.

I'm not aware of a single person account that has had money taken from their card which was directly traced back to the PSN hack (it would have been all over the press), which is one of the reasons why all of the class action lawsuits were dismissed.

Also Sony decided to take down their service. They weren't forced offline because of the hack. MS just blamed their users, blamed EA and took their time investigating and refunding those who had been robbed. To this day I don't think that MS have explained what happened.

If paying for a service must mean that it's better than a free one (which you're suggesting), sex with a prostitute must be better than with any and every consenting partner.

[2Dshmuplover]

We've been through this a number of times on the forum and my personal opinion as Gold subscriber of XBL is that I am happy with how it is. I am one of the very few (no doubt, which I can understand) who wouldn't actually like MS to offer a similar service as it would be of little benefit to a gamer like me. Games are so cheap now no matter what, and it may sound a little odd but I like buying them and the sense of ownership that comes with that. I have a huge backlog of great games and I don't want rentals clogging up my HDD space that I can only gain access to if I subscribe to a service.

As it stands I think Gold offers good value if you pick it up for £25-£30 for 12 months, there's plenty of great deals such as the Xmas sales as we're seeing now. Bottom line is I'm content but I can see people who want "free" games all the time might not be.

[2Dshmuplover]

Originally Posted by Conroy

Except for people that had money taken from their accounts after other XBL users somehow managed to obtain log-in information from this super secure service.

I'm not aware of a single person account that has had money taken from their card which was directly traced back to the PSN hack (it would have been all over the press), which is one of the reasons why all of the class action lawsuits were dismissed.

Also Sony decided to take down their service. They weren't forced offline because of the hack. MS just blamed their users, blamed EA and took their time investigating and refunding those who had been robbed. To this day I don't think that MS have explained what happened.

If paying for a service must mean that it's better than a free one (which you're suggesting), sex with a prostitute must be better than with any and every consenting partner.

Nope, XBL has never been hacked where as PSN has. The only way people have had money taken from their accounts is from outside sources like the XBL code generator scams and from creating bad passwords. Since then MS have done all they can to make it easy for people to fully secure their details but people being people are at times, stupid.

[gother]

Originally Posted by 2Dshmuplover

Nope, XBL has never been hacked where as PSN has. The only way people have had money taken from their accounts is from outside sources like the XBL code generator scams and from creating bad passwords. Since then MS have done all they can to make it easy for people to fully secure their details but people being people are at times, stupid.

You were saying? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...raud-case.html

[2Dshmuplover]

Originally Posted by gother

You were saying? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...raud-case.html

Originally Posted by The Guardian

The "phishing" gangs were thought to have stolen small amounts of money from credit cards over several weeks, which made it harder to detect the fraud.

As part of their scam, the gangs sent emails to players directing them to fake websites offering free Microsoft points that can be used to buy games. Duped victims then entered their personal details, which allowed criminals access to their accounts and valuable credit card information.

They also reportedly befriend players online and convince them into volunteering personal details.

XBL has never been hacked, it's external phishing scams. You didn't even read the article obviously!

[Hotbird]

Originally Posted by 2Dshmuplover

We've been through this a number of times on the forum and my personal opinion as Gold subscriber of XBL is that I am happy with how it is. I am one of the very few (no doubt, which I can understand) who wouldn't actually like MS to offer a similar service as it would be of little benefit to a gamer like me. Games are so cheap now no matter what, and it may sound a little odd but I like buying them and the sense of ownership that comes with that. I have a huge backlog of great games and I don't want rentals clogging up my HDD space that I can only gain access to if I subscribe to a service.

As it stands I think Gold offers good value if you pick it up for £25-£30 for 12 months, there's plenty of great deals such as the Xmas sales as we're seeing now. Bottom line is I'm content but I can see people who want "free" games all the time might not be.

PS+ has its own fair share of discounts and additional sales above what is already on the normal PSN sales.

Each to their own really with these services, I have found PS+ to be great value for me. One of the things I really like about PS+ is its an added service you dont actually feel you have to have, it feel optional. With LIVE Gold it feels like a requirement to get the most out of the 360, you need it to play the online component of games you buy and you even need it to access content from other Subscription services like Sky and NetFlix, making it feel almost mandatory.

Originally Posted by 2Dshmuplover

Nope, XBL has never been hacked where as PSN has. The only way people have had money taken from their accounts is from outside sources like the XBL code generator scams and from creating bad passwords. Since then MS have done all they can to make it easy for people to fully secure their details but people being people are at times, stupid.

Wasn't the "Fifa hack" due to the Captcha software on the Windows Live ID password reset website allows loads of retry which meant that brute forcing hacking was possible to change peoples passwords (At least the weak ones).

By all accounts MS were slow to clear up this problem as reports of the problem went on for months.

[thomas2400]

To some up the general argument let's examine what you get and then when people try to argue they will either look silly or be trying to justify to themselves more than anything that what they pay is worth it

Gold Account
Price £30-40
What you get:
-access to have of a game you have already paid for
-Discounts of items Microsoft decided to discount
-Access to free services such as 4OD, and access to other paid services (meaning a sub to the program and a sub to live just to get on them) such as Sky, netflix etc
(there might be other stuff but i'm not sure)

PS Plus
Price £30-40
-Access to 65+ Games a year chosen by Sony, But with mostly very high metacritic scores
-Access to Cloud store (over 2GB)
-automatic updates
(again other stuff i'm forgetting as well)

Now for the argument of 'i pay for a secure network that can't be hacked, do you ****, you look companies that have been hacked and not just sony and you really think that if they wanted to they people couldn't hack the Xbox just because you pay they money, what fantasy world are you living in

By that very notion i could ****ing trick you all in to paying me a bear patrol tax and because you are paying it means not bears will never come near the street you live, if hackers want to hack Xbox they could, they what would your new insane argument be for buying gold, Jesus Christ when people make that argument it's like they want to look ****ing stupid

Edit: just to add

What do you lose when you stop subbing

Xbox - Access to play any multiplayer or use any only features of any game you own whether digital or retail, regardless of weather you have paid for a online pass for the game

PS Plus, access to cloud saving, any games you get from PS Plus and automatic updates, you do however retain the right to fully play any game that you own

i.e if we look at it from a barebones perspective, without either sub, only one of the consoles fully 'works' so any justification of Live is nullify by the fact you need it and its not a choice to have it

[gother]

Originally Posted by 2Dshmuplover

XBL has never been hacked, it's external phishing scams. You didn't even read the article obviously!

Or maybe i was pulling your leg? obviously

[blitzben85]

Originally Posted by SimonB79

The only difference is the fact Sony give u 65 games per year & bigger cloudstorage ...

Don't forget the fact PSN get hacked to pieces...

[thomas2400]

Originally Posted by blitzben85

Don't forget the fact PSN get hacked to pieces...

The PSN hack is not part of the sub and is therefore an irrelevant point, so i guess that makes your entire point thus far well pointless

[gother]

Originally Posted by blitzben85

Don't forget the fact PSN get hacked to pieces...

*got* so have many other services.

Next.

[Ash_735]

I love this notion that the PSN always get hacked, yet the last breach was in 2010 and Sony have hit hard on that. Funny.

All services have had some form of security breach, even Microsoft, and even Steam (which did create some panic a few years back!).

Companies do what they must, find it, patch it, secure it, and continue, yet only Sony gets tarred with this brush "always hacked". *shrugs*

[thomas2400]

Originally Posted by Ash_735

I love this notion that the PSN always get hacked, yet the last breach was in 2010 and Sony have hit hard on that. Funny.

All services have had some form of security breach, even Microsoft, and even Steam (which did create some panic a few years back!).

Companies do what they must, find it, patch it, secure it, and continue, yet only Sony gets tarred with this brush "always hacked". *shrugs*

It's the go to argument for some people who have realized they are paying for nothing now that most games come with online passes

As you can (and probably have) read in this thread, there seems to be a group of people that believe they are paying for an unhacked service

Rather than just accept Gold in its current state literally only offers discounts on random stuff, they'll just lie to themselves

[Jay-Cee]

lol at "you get whay you pay for" "psn has been hacked" that is now old. to whoever said psn is slow and laggy have you actually tried it? millions of gamers across the play on psn on a daily basis. No its not a great service but its a good service. PSN is safer than it was before, service is good. Use it before you speak

[mitchey316]

Golds a rip off why should I have to pay for it so I can access lovefilm and netflix that I've already paid for?

[Jay-Cee]

well cause your paying for security between from your end to lovefil/netfilx, or maybe your paying so when streaming, it wont be laggy and will run smooth

[blitzben85]

Originally Posted by thomas2400

The PSN hack is not part of the sub and is therefore an irrelevant point, so i guess that makes your entire point thus far well pointless

But the fact is, PSN was hacked to hell, when was the last time XBl was down for a month or so ?

Originally Posted by Ash_735

Companies do what they must, find it, patch it, secure it, and continue, yet only Sony gets tarred with this brush "always hacked". *shrugs*

From past experience maybe ? After thousands of people's information got into the wrong hands. People don't forget what shoddy security it once had. That will stick with PSN for a long time.

Originally Posted by thomas2400

As you can (and probably have) read in this thread, there seems to be a group of people that believe they are paying for an unhacked service

Rather than just accept Gold in its current state literally only offers discounts on random stuff, they'll just lie to themselves

Who said xbox is not prone to attacks ? I moved over to the 360 as i was fed up of the PS3. I feel (imo) that XBL is much more stable for online gaming. I can't put my finger on it but after playing via both PSN and XBL i much prefer the Xbox.

I also like the fact that if you report someone when playing online. They are more likely to act upon it, unlike PSN.