Originally Posted by yorkshirelass2:
“madetomeasure refuses to be convinced I'm afraid !!”
“madetomeasure refuses to be convinced I'm afraid !!”
No, I refuse to be railroaded into changing my stance - difference.
showdance is all lifts professional standard Denise awesome
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Originally Posted by natalian:
“Mystical, thank you for expressing this so eloquently. It became so tiring seeing the endless criticism of Denise from some quarters just because they didn't believe she had any right to be on the show based on such a spurious basis. The simple fact is that she was on the show and it is a shame that people could not simply accept that and enjoy her performances for what they were.”
“Mystical, thank you for expressing this so eloquently. It became so tiring seeing the endless criticism of Denise from some quarters just because they didn't believe she had any right to be on the show based on such a spurious basis. The simple fact is that she was on the show and it is a shame that people could not simply accept that and enjoy her performances for what they were.”
Thanks for typing that because that's exactly how I feel about Louis - the fact that he's won and the tireless sour groups about it - well him and his lack of a shirt and I certainly enjoyed his performances.
Originally Posted by madetomeasure:
“I would have thought that as you're going through the process of studying law you'd understand the perfectly clear analogy. So when you're qualified, you'll be charging for your services, which makes you a professional. I don't understand what is so hard to understand about that except that there's lots of desperation to cling onto any hope of justifying Denise being a non-dancer when even Darcey said it herself last night.”
“I would have thought that as you're going through the process of studying law you'd understand the perfectly clear analogy. So when you're qualified, you'll be charging for your services, which makes you a professional. I don't understand what is so hard to understand about that except that there's lots of desperation to cling onto any hope of justifying Denise being a non-dancer when even Darcey said it herself last night.”
i see you missed the 2nd paragraph of my post. Please provide the evidence that Denise has dance qualifications, as without it your analogy really doesn't work I'm afraid.
Originally Posted by madetomeasure:
“Thanks for typing that because that's exactly how I feel about Louis - the fact that he's won and the tireless sour groups about it - well him and his lack of a shirt and I certainly enjoyed his performances.”
“Thanks for typing that because that's exactly how I feel about Louis - the fact that he's won and the tireless sour groups about it - well him and his lack of a shirt and I certainly enjoyed his performances.”
When has anyone accused Louis of not having a right to be on the show because he is a professional dancer
Originally Posted by Mystical123:
“i see you missed the 2nd paragraph of my post. Please provide the evidence that Denise has dance qualifications, as without it your analogy really doesn't work I'm afraid.”
“i see you missed the 2nd paragraph of my post. Please provide the evidence that Denise has dance qualifications, as without it your analogy really doesn't work I'm afraid.”
She received a payment for dancing so any quals are irrelevant - once she's accepted to dance for the paying public, a contract has been formed - you know all about contract law, offer and acceptance Fisher v Bell etc. She wouldn't have been hired if she wasn't of a high standard to justify the ticket prices. A lawyer charges for his services, a dancer charges for her entertainment value = both professionals.
Originally Posted by madetomeasure:
“She received a payment for dancing so any quals are irrelevant - once she's accepted to dance for the paying public, a contract has been formed - you know all about contract law, offer and acceptance Fisher v Bell etc. She wouldn't have been hired if she wasn't of a high standard to justify the ticket prices. A lawyer charges for his services, a dancer charges for her entertainment value = both professionals.”
“She received a payment for dancing so any quals are irrelevant - once she's accepted to dance for the paying public, a contract has been formed - you know all about contract law, offer and acceptance Fisher v Bell etc. She wouldn't have been hired if she wasn't of a high standard to justify the ticket prices. A lawyer charges for his services, a dancer charges for her entertainment value = both professionals.”
When has Denise charged for providing the services of a professional ballroom & latin american dancer? Does she do dance classes? Does she do ballroom & latin demonstrations? Is she a ballroom & latin american choreographer? Is she a judge of ballroom & latin american dance competitions?
Originally Posted by natalian:
“When has Denise charged for providing the services of a professional ballroom & latin american dancer? Does she do dance classes? Does she do ballroom & latin demonstrations? Is she a ballroom & latin american choreographer? Is she a judge of ballroom & latin american dance competitions?”
“When has Denise charged for providing the services of a professional ballroom & latin american dancer? Does she do dance classes? Does she do ballroom & latin demonstrations? Is she a ballroom & latin american choreographer? Is she a judge of ballroom & latin american dance competitions?”
It's been questioned as to whether she's a professional dancer per se. I was providing analyses to confirm that she is indeed a professional dancer. She's danced professionally. You're now choosing to focus on latin and ballroom which is funnily enough what Denise and her entourage have done all this series.
Originally Posted by madetomeasure:
“It's been questioned as to whether she's a professional dancer per se. I was providing analyses to confirm that she is indeed a professional dancer. She's danced professionally. You're now choosing to focus on latin and ballroom which is funnily enough what Denise and her entourage have done all this series.”
“It's been questioned as to whether she's a professional dancer per se. I was providing analyses to confirm that she is indeed a professional dancer. She's danced professionally. You're now choosing to focus on latin and ballroom which is funnily enough what Denise and her entourage have done all this series.”
That probably has something to do with Strictly being a ballroom and latin american dancing show.
Of course she would have done a bit of 'dance' at some stage of her life - she went to stage school where everyone does a bit of dance. She has performed on stage which will involve doing certain choreographed sequences, and not generally in the style of ballroom and latin american. However, even if her day job has included some choreographed material, her day job is to be an actress, not to be a professional dancer and she would have been hired as an actress not as a dancer.
Originally Posted by madetomeasure:
“She received a payment for dancing so any quals are irrelevant - once she's accepted to dance for the paying public, a contract has been formed - you know all about contract law, offer and acceptance Fisher v Bell etc. She wouldn't have been hired if she wasn't of a high standard to justify the ticket prices. A lawyer charges for his services, a dancer charges for her entertainment value = both professionals.”
“She received a payment for dancing so any quals are irrelevant - once she's accepted to dance for the paying public, a contract has been formed - you know all about contract law, offer and acceptance Fisher v Bell etc. She wouldn't have been hired if she wasn't of a high standard to justify the ticket prices. A lawyer charges for his services, a dancer charges for her entertainment value = both professionals.”
She was hired to play Roxie Hart in Chicago - i.e. to be an actress portraying that role. What she was required to do onstage is irrelevant, her contract was to play the character, not to dance on the stage.
Originally Posted by Mystical123:
“She was hired to play Roxie Hart in Chicago - i.e. to be an actress portraying that role. What she was required to do onstage is irrelevant, her contract was to play the character, not to dance on the stage.”
“She was hired to play Roxie Hart in Chicago - i.e. to be an actress portraying that role. What she was required to do onstage is irrelevant, her contract was to play the character, not to dance on the stage.”
ah, forgot it was to sit on a chair
It's Xmas Eve and time to get off here and have some fun 
seasons greetings to everyone on SCD.
Originally Posted by madetomeasure:
“ah, forgot it was to sit on a chair It's Xmas Eve and time to get off here and have some fun seasons greetings to everyone on SCD.”
“ah, forgot it was to sit on a chair
It's Xmas Eve and time to get off here and have some fun seasons greetings to everyone on SCD.”
Sigh, as has been explained, Denise is not a professional dancer.
She had some dancing experience as all of them had, including a bit of ballet for Louis.
And they all had their advantages and disadvantages including Louis who, in the final used his GYMNASTIC experience in EVERY dance, as much as he could. And he didn't even need to break a sweat to do that.
I personally think it's the dancing that counts.
I laud them ALL for their showdances, nonetheless.
Whether she sat in a chair or not, her dancing blew Louis's out of the water. He started from scratch ? So did Mark Ramprakash and he was miles better than Louis too. Louis won because he was popular.
I don't have a problem with that and it makes no difference what level Denise was at pre competition because she had no chance of winning anyway. The same will apply to any other celeb next year whether they progress from no experience at all or not. Why on earth discuss it when the quality of dancing has become almost irrelevant.
I don't have a problem with that and it makes no difference what level Denise was at pre competition because she had no chance of winning anyway. The same will apply to any other celeb next year whether they progress from no experience at all or not. Why on earth discuss it when the quality of dancing has become almost irrelevant.
Originally Posted by Stockingfiller:
“Whether she sat in a chair or not, her dancing blew Louis's out of the water. He started from scratch ? So did Mark Ramprakash and he was miles better than Louis too. Louis won because he was popular.
I don't have a problem with that and it makes no difference what level Denise was at pre competition because she had no chance of winning anyway. The same will apply to any other celeb next year whether they progress from no experience at all or not. Why on earth discuss it when the quality of dancing has become almost irrelevant.”
“Whether she sat in a chair or not, her dancing blew Louis's out of the water. He started from scratch ? So did Mark Ramprakash and he was miles better than Louis too. Louis won because he was popular.
I don't have a problem with that and it makes no difference what level Denise was at pre competition because she had no chance of winning anyway. The same will apply to any other celeb next year whether they progress from no experience at all or not. Why on earth discuss it when the quality of dancing has become almost irrelevant.”
I was glad in a way that Louis won because it made it absolutely clear that this show is not really about dancing standards but about popular personality. It was not quite as bad as that clumsy cricket player winning but almost.
I think Denise can be well satisfied that without years of specialist training she produced the most technically advanced and difficult showdance ever seen in this show.
Agreed. At least viewers know now, that it's possible to get some best dancers into the final but basically it's now a popularity contest. The outcome of this year and last year was obvious from week one.
That showdance was incredible. I'm so glad they were able to perform it live on air. The lift in which James was holding Denise only by her lower legs - she had to hold that pose keeping her body straight -
Plus the neck spins ! Great to see all that.
That showdance was incredible. I'm so glad they were able to perform it live on air. The lift in which James was holding Denise only by her lower legs - she had to hold that pose keeping her body straight -
Plus the neck spins ! Great to see all that.
Originally Posted by JohnCurry:
“I was glad in a way that Louis won because it made it absolutely clear that this show is not really about dancing standards but about popular personality. It was not quite as bad as that clumsy cricket player winning but almost.
I think Denise can be well satisfied that without years of specialist training she produced the most technically advanced and difficult showdance ever seen in this show.”
“I was glad in a way that Louis won because it made it absolutely clear that this show is not really about dancing standards but about popular personality. It was not quite as bad as that clumsy cricket player winning but almost.
I think Denise can be well satisfied that without years of specialist training she produced the most technically advanced and difficult showdance ever seen in this show.”
of course she did. When has the show ever been about dancing? Maybe right at the start. Maybe you should all write to the Beeb and ask them to tell Tess not to keep saying vote for your favourite couple. Maybe, instead, she could say vote for the couple who you think is the best dancer.... somehow I don't think that will happen because this is an entertainment show but glad you recognised Denises edge over the others.
Originally Posted by Stockingfiller:
“Agreed. At least viewers know now, that it's possible to get some best dancers into the final but basically it's now a popularity contest. The outcome of this year and last year was obvious from week one.
That showdance was incredible. I'm so glad they were able to perform it live on air. The lift in which James was holding Denise only by her lower legs - she had to hold that pose keeping her body straight - Plus the neck spins ! Great to see all that.”
“Agreed. At least viewers know now, that it's possible to get some best dancers into the final but basically it's now a popularity contest. The outcome of this year and last year was obvious from week one.
That showdance was incredible. I'm so glad they were able to perform it live on air. The lift in which James was holding Denise only by her lower legs - she had to hold that pose keeping her body straight -
Plus the neck spins ! Great to see all that.”
so we keep reading, yet you all kept watching. What crystal balls you all have...any chance of chucking one in my direction..I'm short of a xmas gift
Originally Posted by madetomeasure:
“of course she did. When has the show ever been about dancing? Maybe right at the start. Maybe you should all write to the Beeb and ask them to tell Tess not to keep saying vote for your favourite couple. Maybe, instead, she could say vote for the couple who you think is the best dancer.... somehow I don't think that will happen because this is an entertainment show but glad you recognised Denises edge over the others.”
“of course she did. When has the show ever been about dancing? Maybe right at the start. Maybe you should all write to the Beeb and ask them to tell Tess not to keep saying vote for your favourite couple. Maybe, instead, she could say vote for the couple who you think is the best dancer.... somehow I don't think that will happen because this is an entertainment show but glad you recognised Denises edge over the others.”
I suppose I go for personality as well - Denise is just my No.2 favourite in all the years of the show. My No.1 is Cherie Lunghi.
Originally Posted by madetomeasure:
“so we keep reading, yet you all kept watching. What crystal balls you all have...any chance of chucking one in my direction..I'm short of a xmas gift”
“so we keep reading, yet you all kept watching. What crystal balls you all have...any chance of chucking one in my direction..I'm short of a xmas gift
”
You'd better duck then. I really do have one and it's heavy
Why keep watching ? To see other people dancing well even if they couldn't possibly win and I don't mean just one, couple.
It's just as well madetomeasure and her ilk never found out about Dani's disco musical and years of musical experience or Kimberley not only studying but actually teaching dance in stage school along with her own West End experience and getting paid to sing and dance in a pop group. Those people would have had very few dancers left to root for in the latter stages, ringahs everywhere!
Originally Posted by Stockingfiller:
“Agreed. At least viewers know now, that it's possible to get some best dancers into the final but basically it's now a popularity contest. The outcome of this year and last year was obvious from week one.”
“Agreed. At least viewers know now, that it's possible to get some best dancers into the final but basically it's now a popularity contest. The outcome of this year and last year was obvious from week one.”
I don't think the viewers have ever been in any doubt as to what the programme is.
They were the ones who voted (all through the week in the early series) for Chris Parker to be in the final, for Julian Clary to be in the final, for Darren Gough to win for Chris Hollins to wind and for a multitude for less able dancers from Kate Garraway to Ann Widdicombe to stay in longer than their skill set could cope with.
I think if you feel Saturday taught the Strictly voting viewers anything, you're on for a bit of a disappointment.
Originally Posted by Stockingfiller:
“Agreed. At least viewers know now, that it's possible to get some best dancers into the final but basically it's now a popularity contest. The outcome of this year and last year was obvious from week one.
That showdance was incredible. I'm so glad they were able to perform it live on air. The lift in which James was holding Denise only by her lower legs - she had to hold that pose keeping her body straight - Plus the neck spins ! Great to see all that.”
“Agreed. At least viewers know now, that it's possible to get some best dancers into the final but basically it's now a popularity contest. The outcome of this year and last year was obvious from week one.
That showdance was incredible. I'm so glad they were able to perform it live on air. The lift in which James was holding Denise only by her lower legs - she had to hold that pose keeping her body straight -
Plus the neck spins ! Great to see all that.”
Any tv programme where the public gets to vote is a popularity contest - always has been - always will be.
Originally Posted by komentaightor:
“I still think, after all the sequins have settled, that Denise is the only celeb to date who had the strength, flexibility, technique, right partner, and nerve to pull off a really good show dance.
She certainly blew James away, and probably some of the other pro dancers too, and the judges were awestruck.
It will be one of the absolute classic Strictly dances.
Probably, as there's no cash in it, better to dance memorably than to do any old moves just to get an ugly glitterball trophy.”
“I still think, after all the sequins have settled, that Denise is the only celeb to date who had the strength, flexibility, technique, right partner, and nerve to pull off a really good show dance.
She certainly blew James away, and probably some of the other pro dancers too, and the judges were awestruck.
It will be one of the absolute classic Strictly dances.
Probably, as there's no cash in it, better to dance memorably than to do any old moves just to get an ugly glitterball trophy.”
I agree with everything you say, I could hardly believe my eyes, it was spectacular. We'll remember that showdance (and it'll be talked about) for ever. Will Louis's ? I don't think so. He got the shiny glitterball, Denise got the wonderful response, respect and acclaim from everyone. I know which I'd rather have !! Well done Denise and Happy Christmas everyone.
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