[IzzyS]

Its been mentioned on TV over the last couple of days that there were various complaints made to the police about him - I don't think its fair to imply that there was a complete lack of complaints made. There were multiple complaints lodged in one form or another, thats included in the report surely? from what I've read, there's talk of multiple people having made separate complaints but not realising they weren't the only ones, so in my eyes its a nonsense that there was a lack of complaints. Many people wouldn't feel brave enough to want to go to the police knowing they may well go to trial and be cross examined by some hot shot barrister/lawyer and have their story end up in the press etc. but some people did go to the police

[Bus Stop2012]

Originally Posted by inquirer64

Do we know the truth?

Do we know how many times he 'sorted' complaints/allegations with threats etc?

Do we even know how many complaints were made at the time of the abuse? Some may not have even been recorded.

Yes, I think we know that the only complaints were the ones to Sussex and Surrey police in 2007 and 2009.

He couldn't 'sort' a police complaint with threats or anything else.

[Bus Stop2012]

Originally Posted by IzzyS

Its been mentioned on TV over the last couple of days that there were various complaints made to the police about him - I don't think its fair to imply that there was a complete lack of complaints made. There were multiple complaints lodged in one form or another, thats included in the report surely? from what I've read, there's talk of multiple people having made separate complaints but not realising they weren't the only ones, so in my eyes its a nonsense that there was a lack of complaints. Many people wouldn't feel brave enough to want to go to the police knowing they may well go to trial and be cross examined by some hot shot barrister/lawyer and have their story end up in the press etc. but some people did go to the police

Why not read the report published yesterday by the CPS ? Then you will know and won't need to speculate.

[Sad_BB_Addict]

Jimmy Savile played on our unwillingness to address sexual crime
For the Savile case to become a watershed moment we need to ensure victims feel able to safely report rape and sexual abuse
Deborah Orr

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013...le-deborah-orr

"It is so important that all victims of such crimes report them, and feel safe in the knowledge that even if their carefully recorded, thoroughly examined evidence is not immediately useful, it may turn out to be part of a pattern of evidence at a later date. That is the watershed that is needed now."

[inquirer64]

Originally Posted by Bus Stop2012

Yes, I think we know that the only complaints were the ones to Sussex and Surrey police in 2007 and 2009.

He couldn't 'sort' a police complaint with threats or anything else.

Not sure you are accurate with "the only complaints were the ones to Sussex and Surrey police in 2007 and 2009."

Have you been following the information given?

Read the numerous reports in the Independent or the Guardian and I think you will find complaints were made for decades. Unfortunately these complaints were not acted upon for whatever reason, even when passed on to those in power who were able to do something about them. Nor were some recorded.

The report written yesterday is an account of a few allegations sent to the CPS and their conclusions. It is not a summary of all of them.

We do not know the truth. This is why we need an inquiry, similar to the Hillsborough one, which pulls in all the strands of child abuse, and not just those committed by JS.

[Bus Stop2012]

Originally Posted by inquirer64

Not sure you are accurate with "the only complaints were the ones to Sussex and Surrey police in 2007 and 2009."

Have you been following the information given?

Read the numerous reports in the Independent or the Guardian and I think you will find complaints were made for decades. Unfortunately these complaints were not acted upon for whatever reason, even when passed on to those in power who were able to do something about them. Nor were some recorded.

The report written yesterday is an account of a few allegations sent to the CPS and their conclusions. It is not a summary of all of them.

We do not know the truth. This is why we need an inquiry, similar to the Hillsborough one, which pulls in all the strands of child abuse, and not just those committed by JS.

Yes, I've been reading the official reports. I think, although happy to be corrected, that the Levitt report described each and every report made to the police.

I don't know what you refer to in saying 'complaints made for decades'. If there were, say, complaints made within hospitals or whatever, then we will only find this out when the report on those is finalised.

I'm not sure what you mean about a 'Hillsborough type inquiry'. I thinks there are already more than enough inquiries as it is. What is it that you think is being missed?

[jack patterson]

Originally Posted by Linda_Danvers

I don't understand your compelete lack of sympathy of someone who sexually abused. Put yourself in their places for a minute, is that hard? I can tell you (and that's for sure) there are way, way more men who get away with sexual crimes than those falsely accused.

Nothing to do with lack of sympathy its to do with truth and one person's word against another.
.
The Adamson case proves people were not naive in the past, able to confront pedophilia and 8 year old girls were quite prepared to send him to court.The whole strength of MWT's accusations is based on the opposite of that.

Adamson was found not guilty...so what does that mean? he had a good lawyer? or the girls mistook his actions as a swimming instructor for something else?.Will we ever know?

Surely it takes a astronomical leap of faith to believe that Savile has remained undetected since 1955! no matter how well he was connected?..if he was that rampant he would have made a mistake somewhere at some time.

If you can honestly believe that Savile was able to get away with what he is accused of in hospitals, then you had be on your guard if you ever attend one hadn't you, as there are plenty of males there?

[Sad_BB_Addict]

C4News on now, saying Savile's estate is c. £4.3M, which wouldn't go very far in paying compensation claims.

[Sad_BB_Addict]

Rod Little in The Spectator, referring to the Charles Moore article I posted yesterday
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/rod-lid...ntire-country/
Even the serious political mags seem to think a "zany" pic of JS is mandatory.

[Sad_BB_Addict]

Tonight's C4 News Savile item
http://www.channel4.com/news/savile-...r-compensation

[IzzyS]

Originally Posted by Bus Stop2012

Why not read the report published yesterday by the CPS ? Then you will know and won't need to speculate.

Ok ill look it up but I was only stating what I'd heard - I presume if they say state something on the news as a fact then it should be taken as such and not just speculation.

[skp20040]

Originally Posted by Sad_BB_Addict

Tonight's C4 News Savile item
http://www.channel4.com/news/savile-...r-compensation

I never understand these bits


It is understod that the assault was on a girl between the ages of 13 and 16, and involved her being groped over her clothing

Surely they must know her age if they know it happened.

[inquirer64]

Bus Stop2012

Quote "I'm not sure what you mean about a 'Hillsborough type inquiry'. I thinks there are already more than enough inquiries as it is. What is it that you think is being missed?"

Independence.

If you read about the Hillsborough inquiry you will see what I mean.

Regarding complaints made, the Independent says there were numerous ones and "The number of reported offences against him peaked in 1976 at 15". Unfortunately they are not specified or to whom they were made. As said before, we do not know the full facts.

[Electra]

Originally Posted by stargazer61

Then you must know absolutely nothing about the complexities of abuse and the myriad of reasons as to why victims do not or cannot speak out. To even consider that the alleged victims are to blame is quite shocking.

Or blatant trolling

[IzzyS]

I just saw this in my twitter feed:-

Sunday Express front page - "Savile was part of Satanic ring" #tomorrowspaperstoday pic.twitter.com/PyKzZyNy

https://twitter.com/suttonnick/statu...84447607844864

Now its maybe getting a little silly, surely?

[Linda_Danvers]

Originally Posted by jack patterson

Nothing to do with lack of sympathy its to do with truth and one person's word against another.
.
The Adamson case proves people were not naive in the past, able to confront pedophilia and 8 year old girls were quite prepared to send him to court.The whole strength of MWT's accusations is based on the opposite of that.

Adamson was found not guilty...so what does that mean? he had a good lawyer? or the girls mistook his actions as a swimming instructor for something else?.Will we ever know?

Surely it takes a astronomical leap of faith to believe that Savile has remained undetected since 1955! no matter how well he was connected?..if he was that rampant he would have made a mistake somewhere at some time.

If you can honestly believe that Savile was able to get away with what he is accused of in hospitals, then you had be on your guard if you ever attend one hadn't you, as there are plenty of males there?

What you have got to understand is that Savile didn't remain undecteted. Many people knew he was up to and the rumours about him were rife since then. Savile wasn't "revealed" now, it was only now that became public what many people in the business (and out of it) knew about him. And there were reports made about him when he was living. Many of them. I guess it was much more than the 7 ones the public knows. The sad fact that apparently the police didn't pursuit shows a very ugly side of misogyny in the society and the forces.

Yes, I think he was quite possible of getting away with it.

[inquirer64]

Bus Stop2012

Quote "I think, although happy to be corrected, that the Levitt report described each and every report made to the police."

I have done a search and come up with the following. I think the last one shows he was reported to the police in the 1960s but the court case was dropped:

London (CNN) "The peak of offending reported to police was between 1966 and 1976, when Savile was between 40 and 50 years old."

Yes, this is not specific in how many, by whom, or even when.

Wikipedia on JS "During Savile's lifetime, sporadic allegations of child abuse were made against him".

Again, not detailed

But how about this one.

BBC report 18/10/2012.

His clubs included Mecca Locarno club in Leeds in the early 1960s. Post-war austerity was being blown away and Savile claimed to be the first person to DJ with two turntables so there were no breaks between records.

Speaking in October 2012, Jeffrey Collins, a DJ at the club, said: "Yes, it was common knowledge that he would take girls into his office.

"It was usually the girls that would come on to the guys. You wouldn't think of asking 'Are you 16 yet?'

"Obviously Jimmy was older. He should have asked questions. He should have asked their age if they were under 16. I'm not saying it was right."

Dennis Lemmon, who worked as a bouncer at the club, said Savile gained a reputation for liking younger girls.

"You'd get a group of 15- and 16-year-olds who'd sit together and Jimmy always seemed to concentrate on these groups instead of the older ones," he told the BBC.

"We'd chat anything up with a skirt on in those days but Jimmy seemed to make for these younger groups."

One day, when Savile arrived in a bad mood, Lemmon asked a colleague what was wrong. He was told Savile was due in court the following day after "messing about with a couple of girls".

When Lemmon later asked how the case had turned out, his colleague told him: "It never got to court - they dropped the charges."

"I said 'How the hell did he wangle that one?'" Lemmon continued. "He said 'He did what he did last time - he paid them off.'"

If the case had gone to court and Savile had been found guilty, Lemmon reflected, "it would have nipped all this in the bud".

So how did he get away with it? "He was a very powerful man, wasn't he?" Lemmon replied. "A very powerful man with a lot of influence."


Does the above 'prove' that at least there was one case brought to the Police whilst JS was still alive.

How many other reports were made to the police that we do not know about. I'm sure I read that at least 7 police forces had had complaints but as yet can't find the link.

The reports at present are dominated with the CPS and this is why so many people seem to think that the first complaint that came to the police was around 2007.

[Linda_Danvers]

Originally Posted by Sad_BB_Addict

Rod Little in The Spectator, referring to the Charles Moore article I posted yesterday
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/rod-lid...ntire-country/
Even the serious political mags seem to think a "zany" pic of JS is mandatory.

Why not? It was not a serious piece. The comments, in this and other pieces, are beyond ridiculous. All screaming of witch-hunt, trial by media, etc. Everything Savile WAS NOT objected to. And their comments scream of hypocrisy and misogyny, tapping theirselves on their back because of their "bravery"of questioning some accusations and being attacked and being labelled rape apologists (which I didn't see anybody do). Nothing wrong in questioning some accusations, I'm doing with a lot of them, but themselves don't see the hypocrisy in their arguments labelling the victims liars and attention seekers, doing the same to them what they accusing the others of doing with Savile.

[IzzyS]

The CPS report makes for some frustrating/grim reading

he had left her in no doubt as to how difficult it would be for a prosecution to take place because Jimmy Savile was a “big celebrity”; she said to me that the police had told her that no one would believe her. She remembered DC T telling her that because he had plenty of money, Jimmy Savile would have the best lawyers, it would all take place in a “big court in London” and his lawyers would make “mincemeat” of her. She also got the clear impression from the police that she would be publicly branded a liar and that her name would be all over the newspapers, particularly if she “lost the case”...

78. I asked Ms C whether being given more information would have made a difference to her decision; Ms C replied that it might have done and had the officer “pushed her” she might have “given in”. She had felt that Jimmy Savile would have been likely to have had better lawyers; she had been concerned about her name appearing in the Press and being branded as either a liar, or a “slag” for not having done anything about it at the time.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/assets/up...ile_report.pdf

[Bus Stop2012]

Originally Posted by IzzyS

Ok ill look it up but I was only stating what I'd heard - I presume if they say state something on the news as a fact then it should be taken as such and not just speculation.

Sorry Izzy, didn't mean that to sound as abrupt as it sounded. But I am surprised you haven't read the report as you usually do try to take the trouble to cover everything.

[Sad_BB_Addict]

Anna Raccoon‏ @annaraccoon2010

#Yewtree Express also offering Pedometer to detect Satanic Paedo's on front page!!!
https://twitter.com/annaraccoon2010/...190272/photo/1

[Bus Stop2012]

Originally Posted by Electra

Or blatant trolling

Don't be silly.

[Linda_Danvers]

Originally Posted by IzzyS

I just saw this in my twitter feed:-



https://twitter.com/suttonnick/statu...84447607844864

Now its maybe getting a little silly, surely?

WTF!

Is this for real? Did you read the intro?: Jimmy Savile beat and raped a 12 year old girl during a secret satanic ritual in a hospital.

The perverted star wore a hooded robe and a mask as he abused the terrified victim in a candle lit basement. He also chanted "Hail Satan" in Latin as others paedophiles devil worshippers joined in and abused the girl.

Now, seriously, this is a horrible story. But headlines like this don't help the case at all and makes a mockery of the real victims. I'm not sure if Savile abused this girl, if the person who told the story is lying, or if this girl exists at all. I don't know what sick mind would create something like that. But if this girl exists and if he abused her, shame on the Express of taking advantage of a very disturbed woman who probably was traumatised by whatever happened to her.

IF there is a ring, I hope the police investigate it. And until them the tabloids keep this sort of story out of their headlines and newspapers. It only makes the real victims look a bunch of attention seeking liars, all in the name of shocking and salicious headlines to make extra money. I hope they chose carefully the next ones.

Originally Posted by Sad_BB_Addict

Anna Raccoon‏ @annaraccoon2010

#Yewtree Express also offering Pedometer to detect Satanic Paedo's on front page!!!
https://twitter.com/annaraccoon2010/...190272/photo/1

Don't blame her at all. Stories like that deserve to be ridiculed.

[Bus Stop2012]

Originally Posted by inquirer64

Bus Stop2012

Quote "I'm not sure what you mean about a 'Hillsborough type inquiry'. I thinks there are already more than enough inquiries as it is. What is it that you think is being missed?"

Independence.

If you read about the Hillsborough inquiry you will see what I mean.

Regarding complaints made, the Independent says there were numerous ones and "The number of reported offences against him peaked in 1976 at 15". Unfortunately they are not specified or to whom they were made. As said before, we do not know the full facts.

I've read the whole Hillsborough Inquiry report together with all the available material from it, which includes the Taylor Inquiry and the other inquiry (the name escapes me for a moment). I personally find the Hillsborough Inquiry doesn't find anything that wasn't already found in the previous two inquiries, nor do I consider it particularly independent. But that aside, I don't know what you think another inquiry is needed for. Are you suggesting that there is a conspiracy and cover up? If thats the case its probably a matter best taken to the lizard forum.

Those reports you allude to above - they are reports of allegations made in the last three - four months. Not historic reports.

[Sad_BB_Addict]

Originally Posted by Linda_Danvers

WTF!

Is this for real? Did you read the intro?: Jimmy Savile beat and raped a 12 year old girl during a secret satanic ritual in a hospital.

The perverted star wore a hooded robe and a mask as he abused the terrified victim in a candle lit basement. He also chanted "Hail Satan" in Latin as others paedophiles devil worshippers joined in and abused the girl.

Now, seriously, this is a horrible story. But headlines like this don't help the case at all and makes a mockery of the real victims. I'm not sure if Savile abused this girl, if the person who told the story is lying, or if this girl exists at all. I don't know what sick mind would create something like that. But if this girl exists and if he abused her, shame on the Express of taking advantage of a very disturbed woman who probably was traumatised by whatever happened to her.

IF there is a ring, I hope the police investigate it. And until them the tabloids keep this sort of story out of their headlines and newspapers. It only makes the real victims look a bunch of attention seeking liars, all in the name of shocking and salicious headlines to make extra money. I hope they chose carefully the next ones.

Don't blame her at all. Stories like that deserve to be ridiculed.

Hard to tell from the available evidence, but I suspect it will eventually come out that there was no "high-level paedophile ring" at the BBC, but there was at Jersey, the North Wales care homes and the Elm Guest House.