[Eurostar]

Originally Posted by IzzyS

True - I guess we'll never know. I read that he used to dye his hair different colours even when TOTP was broadcast in black and white so viewers couldn't tell, if that all started at the very beginning then im not sure if he would planned everything out at such an early stage? but its impossible to know for sure...like I mentioned before, its clear he was quite a clever, cunning person (having been a member of MENSA), so that could be the case.

Also I noticed in that LA Times article posted earlier, it mentions paedophiles having slightly lower than average IQs but that doesn't seem to have been the case with JS - im not sure that he'd be labelled a paedophile specifically though, people have suggested he should be labelled an ephebophile instead(?).

The double life he seemed to live is very disturbing indeed.

I get the impression that the people depicted in that article as being below average intelligence, left handed and shorter in stature are your classic "hardcore" paedophiles ie. fixated on young children and with no interest whatsoever in fellow adults, and Savile wouldn't fit that bill.

I'd never even heard some of this stuff about paedophiles being left handed with low IQ etc,, and yet it would seem to match a lot of these guys that get caught and imprisoned.....quite a few of them appear to be socially isolated misfits alright and not the most articulate of people.

[IzzyS]

Originally Posted by DiamondDoll

Step away folks.
Its really not healthy any more.

It does get quite depressing at times but I think people would agree its important to be able to keep discussing the key issues. It would be a shame for the entire topic to just disappear...its only right to want to push for the truth to come out, surely? it may help others more personally involved to be able to find the latest articles and so on relating to the scandal as well, possibly, or do they all only go to the DI forum? I don't know. If the whole satanism angle turns out to be true then I'd certainly find that very distressing - its bad enough as it is still, im honestly not spending all my time thinking about him or abuse in generally, thankfully or that really wouldn't be healthy!.

Originally Posted by Eurostar

I get the impression that the people depicted in that article as being below average intelligence, left handed and shorter in stature are your classic "hardcore" paedophiles ie. fixated on young children and with no interest whatsoever in fellow adults, and Savile wouldn't fit that bill.

I'd never even heard some of this stuff about paedophiles being left handed with low IQ etc,, and yet it would seem to match a lot of these guys that get caught and imprisoned.....quite a few of them appear to be socially isolated misfits alright and not the most articulate of people.

I'm no fan of stereotypes, perhaps some or most fit that profile but there will be those who don't.

I haven't really read up much to know if it applies to many - I did feel kind of sorry for the guy mentioned in the article though, if he's trying to resist the urge etc. I remember seeing an episode of Law and Order: SVU a few years back about a teenager who went to the police because they'd started getting urges and didn't know what to do about it but was worried they'd end up assaulting their relative and they had to say they couldn't do anything much to help, other than point them in the direction of a counsellor because they obviously can't arrest or charge someone who hasn't committed an offence and he'd asked to be taken into custody so he wasn't surrounded by temptation(!) eesh.

I'm left handed and socially isolated myself - just as well most are male and I have no interest in children (honest!). I remember growing up being told how many geniuses are left handed and that it means your really creative and talented...there was a book my dad borrowed once about the different sides of the brain and what your better at if your either left or right handed as its to do with which side of your brain you use more, if I remember right? (obviously my memory isn't one of them )

[whatever54]

Originally Posted by IzzyS

It does get quite depressing at times but I think people would agree its important to be able to keep discussing the key issues. It would be a shame for the entire topic to just disappear...its only right to want to push for the truth to come out, surely? it may help others more personally involved to be able to find the latest articles and so on relating to the scandal as well, possibly, or do they all only go to the DI forum? I don't know. If the whole satanism angle turns out to be true then I'd certainly find that very distressing - its bad enough as it is still, im honestly not spending all my time thinking about him or abuse in generally, thankfully or that really wouldn't be healthy!.


I'm no fan of stereotypes, perhaps some or most fit that profile but there will be those who don't.

I haven't really read up much to know if it applies to many - I did feel kind of sorry for the guy mentioned in the article though, if he's trying to resist the urge etc. I remember seeing an episode of Law and Order: SVU a few years back about a teenager who went to the police because they'd started getting urges and didn't know what to do about it but was worried they'd end up assaulting their relative and they had to say they couldn't do anything much to help, other than point them in the direction of a counsellor because they obviously can't arrest or charge someone who hasn't committed an offence and he'd asked to be taken into custody so he wasn't surrounded by temptation(!) eesh.

I'm left handed and socially isolated myself - just as well most are male and I have no interest in children (honest!). I remember growing up being told how many geniuses are left handed and that it means your really creative and talented...there was a book my dad borrowed once about the different sides of the brain and what your better at if your either left or right handed as its to do with which side of your brain you use more, if I remember right? (obviously my memory isn't one of them )

watch out Izzy, bad memory is another trait according to the research The biological associations were one of the most fascinating things I learned in all this. So specific in comparison to other crimes, really odd but interesting.

[jamtamara]

Here you are Izzy:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/aug/13/2

Albert Einstein, Leonardo da Vinci just for starters... hardly below average. It's true that Einstein was a slow starter and was thought by his parents to be stupid. I think he may have made up for it in later years. :

Many creative people and many above average intelligence.

Left-handers used to be discriminated against. You've probably heard of children being made to write with their right hand.

The Latin word dexter means right-handed and the word sinister means left-handed!

I have researched this in the past and it's really fascinating. Sadly I am not left-handed.

[Eurostar]

Originally Posted by IzzyS

I'm no fan of stereotypes, perhaps some or most fit that profile but there will be those who don't.

I haven't really read up much to know if it applies to many - I did feel kind of sorry for the guy mentioned in the article though, if he's trying to resist the urge etc. I remember seeing an episode of Law and Order: SVU a few years back about a teenager who went to the police because they'd started getting urges and didn't know what to do about it but was worried they'd end up assaulting their relative and they had to say they couldn't do anything much to help, other than point them in the direction of a counsellor because they obviously can't arrest or charge someone who hasn't committed an offence and he'd asked to be taken into custody so he wasn't surrounded by temptation(!) eesh.

I'm left handed and socially isolated myself - just as well most are male and I have no interest in children (honest!). I remember growing up being told how many geniuses are left handed and that it means your really creative and talented...there was a book my dad borrowed once about the different sides of the brain and what your better at if your either left or right handed as its to do with which side of your brain you use more, if I remember right? (obviously my memory isn't one of them )

Many famous people are left handed and are often said to be very gifted and creative (and are obviously not paedophiles).

Maybe the below average IQ thing might be a slightly better indicator, but there must be intelligent paedophiles out there too. In a way, those attributes are irrelevant in the general scheme of things, and they would be in no way useful in trying to spot a potential paedophile.

[jamtamara]

http://www.indiana.edu/~primate/left.html

Happy reading. 'night everyone.

[IzzyS]

Originally Posted by whatever54

watch out Izzy, bad memory is another trait according to the research The biological associations were one of the most fascinating things I learned in all this. So specific in comparison to other crimes, really odd but interesting.

lol seriously? mind you, I suppose many criminals may conveniently have a bad memory, by choice? hmmm...

Originally Posted by jamtamara

Here you are Izzy:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/aug/13/2

Albert Einstein, Leonardo da Vinci just for starters... hardly below average. It's true that Einstein was a slow starter and was thought by his parents to be stupid. I think he may have made up for it in later years. :

Many creative people and many above average intelligence.

Left-handers used to be discriminated against. You've probably heard of children being made to write with their right hand.

The Latin word dexter means right-handed and the word sinister means left-handed!

I have researched this in the past and it's really fascinating. Sadly I am not left-handed.

I knew about Einstein, he was the first person I thought of. I think Mozart was as well.

Yes I think they forced kids to write with their right hand until fairly recently - I had problems writing due to my dyspraxia but I think my parents told the school they didn't want them complicating things by trying to get me to write with my other hand, it was difficult enough as it was so im still left handed. I had to use left handed scissors as a kid, you could only buy them from the early learning centre which made for a few laughs from people when I was a teen and still using them, since it had the ELC logo on it - not very cool

I didn't know the word sinister meant that! I don't think I am...(?!). I write poems (like as a kind of therapy to myself) which is kind of creative, good to get my feelings down but I've found it harder to express myself through that over the last few years. Someone suggested I take creative writing classes...maybe if there's anything run locally and I had the confidence, im not sure.

[Eurostar]

Originally Posted by whatever54

watch out Izzy, bad memory is another trait according to the research The biological associations were one of the most fascinating things I learned in all this. So specific in comparison to other crimes, really odd but interesting.

The below average height one was the strangest claim of the lot

[Black Velvet]

I don't go over to the DI forum very often but I was browsing and came across this. After the JS scandal broke his highland home in Glencoe was mentioned and I did an image search of it on Google and found a picture of a scottish folk singer called Moira Kerr posing with JS. There was a link to her website and there I found the two pictures of her posing with JS in Glencoe. She had a dedication that said something like[ it was a privillage and a pleasure to have known Jimmy.] But then it was deleted along with the two pictures. Apparently she used to go over to his cottage for coffee of a morning.
This is the link and the article on the DI site.


http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...2773&page=1861
Its about halfway down.

[Souffle Girl]

Originally Posted by DiamondDoll

Step away folks.
Its really not healthy any more.

I find these threads very interesting for the most part. It is also important these topics be discussed even if it is disturbing. You could always ignore the threads if they bother you. Telling people to step away like you have any superiority to do so is a bit much, although I'm sure you mean well.

[whatever54]

Originally Posted by Eurostar

Many famous people are left handed and are often said to be very gifted and creative (and are obviously not paedophiles).

Maybe the below average IQ thing might be a slightly better indicator, but there must be intelligent paedophiles out there too. In a way, those attributes are irrelevant in the general scheme of things, and they would be in no way useful in trying to spot a potential paedophile.

are they short though?

Originally Posted by IzzyS

lol seriously? mind you, I suppose many criminals may conveniently have a bad memory, by choice? hmmm...
. Someone suggested I take creative writing classes...maybe if there's anything run locally and I had the confidence, im not sure.

true and if you performed badly in exams at school (I think that's what they mean) then be worried....I'd bet my life the majority of criminals have a bad memory

Go for it, you have a lovely writing style btw

Originally Posted by Eurostar

The below average height one was the strangest claim of the lot

I know I wonder who did the research to come up with that (I'm sure there used to be a reference to the source and study on Wiki but could be wrong)
I know a few short, left handed men that are lacking in brain cells, they seem ok but who can ever tell

[Eurostar]

Originally Posted by whatever54

I know I wonder who did the research to come up with that (I'm sure there used to be a reference to the source and study on Wiki but could be wrong)
I know a few short, left handed men that are lacking in brain cells, they seem ok but who can ever tell

I'm definitely in the clear anyway as I'm 6ft 3, right handed, have a decent IQ and an excellent memory

To be honest, I think the physical attributes they mention in the article are something of a red herring, even if they are statistically correct (perhaps the IQ one might be of some significance as it is connected to the brain).

[whatever54]

Originally Posted by Eurostar

I'm definitely in the clear anyway as I'm 6ft 3, right handed, have a decent IQ and an excellent memory

To be honest, I think the physical attributes they mention in the article are something of a red herring, even if they are statistically correct (perhaps the IQ one might be of some significance as it is connected to the brain).

yeah I'm mostly ok just left-handed (also ginger but I don't think that is a factor)

I think you are right, I'm quoting off Wiki and the source is 'researchers in 2002' seems a bit flimsy in the light of such a discovery IMO. Yes I think the low IQ/self esteem are likely factors but the rest
They have never declared rapists/murderers etc look/are like this so I'm not sure how they can be so specific with paedophiles. Maybe it's to do with numbers, all very confusing

[Eurostar]

Originally Posted by whatever54

yeah I'm mostly ok just left-handed (also ginger but I don't think that is a factor)

I think you are right, I'm quoting off Wiki and the source is 'researchers in 2002' seems a bit flimsy in the light of such a discovery IMO. Yes I think the low IQ/self esteem are likely factors but the rest
They have never declared rapists/murderers etc look/are like this so I'm not sure how they can be so specific with paedophiles. Maybe it's to do with numbers, all very confusing

I would have thought too that environmental factors were a big factor, which would sideline things like being short, left handed, having low IQ etc.....for example, if the paedophile was neglected during their childhood or saw their emotional growth stunted.

[whatever54]

Originally Posted by Eurostar

I would have thought too that environmental factors were a big factor, which would sideline things like being short, left handed, having low IQ etc.....for example, if the paedophile was neglected during their childhood or saw their emotional growth stunted.

I agree. I think it would be great if was as simple as the researchers make out but think it is far more complex. Head injury in childhood resulting in unconsciousness was another thing mentioned. Seems plausible and more likely to happen if the child was neglected/abused

[MC_Satan]

That sounds as quack like as Phrenology!

[jamtamara]

Originally Posted by Eurostar

The below average height one was the strangest claim of the lot

My OH is short and ambidextrous. He is very good at spoonerisms and Countdown and Scrabble. He can do those better than I can. I agree that left-handedness/ambidextrousness is a red herring and a bit thoughtless. Left-handed people have enough trouble already, already!

Still, it's good that we can discuss it. Izzy, I too think you should do the creative writing. It has your name on it.

[jamtamara]

Originally Posted by whatever54

I agree. I think it would be great if was as simple as the researchers make out but think it is far more complex. Head injury in childhood resulting in unconsciousness was another thing mentioned. Seems plausible and more likely to happen if the child was neglected/abused

Yes, it said also iirc that a growth caused pressure on the brain for a man in his forties, the urge went away when the growth was removed but came back when the growth returned. The research I mentioned was on the brain generally so that's another avenue.

I think while welcoming research we have to be wary of taking results as gospel in the early stages. I was surprised that being below average height and left-handedness was mentioned. One look at the lists of left-handed folk show the disparities in those people alone. Same with shorter than average people. Good job that coincidentally there weren't many ginger people in the people looked at! Even if there is a link to LH and shorter than average height it's hardly a good idea to put it out to Joe Public. It doesn't mean that everyone who is any of this is a menace to society but once the tabloid headlines get hold of it they could be perceived as such.

[Keyser Soze]

From this week's Popbitch newsletter:

>> Bachelor boys <<
Service industry Savile

Celebrities must be falling over
themselves to avoid being linked
with Jimmy Savile. Poor old Cliff
Richard, then, as we found this
old quote from Sir Jim:

"A lot of disc jockeys make the
mistake of thinking that they're sex
symbols and then they get a rude
awakening. But I always realised
that I was a service industry.

"Like, because I knew Cliff before
he'd even made a record, all the
Cliff fans would bust a gut to meet
me, so that I could tell them stories
about their idol. But if I'd said,
'Come round, so that I can tell you
stories about me' or 'Come round,
so that you can fall into my arms'
they'd have said: 'What! On yer bike!'

"But because reporters don't
understand the nuances of all that,
they say, 'A-ha'."

And:

What does Twitter know...?
http://bit.ly/X7bRXY

[Sad_BB_Addict]

Savile and police corruption
http://rinf.com/alt-news/latest-news...ruption/21182/
(video)

[Sad_BB_Addict]

BBC Asian Network this morning
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...r_Vipul_Mehta/
Child Abuse Lawyer Alicia Alinia, who represents some Savile survivors
From 1hr 14mins

[Asmo]

Originally Posted by jamtamara

There are a couple of pictures of him in strange garb, or should I say stranger than usual. One is of him in a long robe with symbols

I think this was dealt with very early on in this series of threads - he was apparently an honorary Knight of Malta, a Catholic group, if you do a google image search for 'Knight of Malta'
you'll see they have lots of ceremonial garb that can easily be misconstrued by the mischievous.

[Sad_BB_Addict]

Wow - it's happened. Operation Fairbank becomes criminal inquiry. Elm Guest House etc - lots of famous names.

Met police confirms criminal investigation launched into historic child abuse after @tom_watson claims. Called Operation Fernbridge.

http://www.exaronews.com/articles/48...AuS3N8.twitter

http://davidhencke.wordpress.com/201...investigation/

The Met Police statement in full:

The Metropolitan Police Service has today launched an investigation, Operation Fernbridge, into historic allegations of child abuse in the early 1980s at the Elm Guest House, Rocks Lane, Barnes, London.

The investigation will be led by the Child Abuse Investigation Command.

Anyone with information is asked to contact officers on 020 7161 0500.

The allegations under Operation Fernbridge were initially assessed under Operation Fairbank which was information passed to police by MP Tom Watson. Operation Fernbridge reached the threshold for a criminal investigation.

We will not be providing a running commentary on this inquiry.

[Sad_BB_Addict]

Blog on Elm Guest House
http://ukpaedos-exposed.com/cover-up...-sexual-abuse/
includes Jilly Cooper using it in one of her novels.

Independent
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-8456434.html

[jamtamara]

Originally Posted by Asmo

I think this was dealt with very early on in this series of threads - he was apparently an honorary Knight of Malta, a Catholic group, if you do a google image search for 'Knight of Malta'
you'll see they have lots of ceremonial garb that can easily be misconstrued by the mischievous.

Thanks for your post. I have looked at the type of robes but there is nothing like the one i saw on the DI site.

I have just found this link which denies that JS was ever a Knight of Malta despite media reports.

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles...f-Malta.453376

He was given a decoration by people in this country but not made a member honorary or otherwise.

Was he even a member of Mensa I wonder or was that 'honorary' membership as well.