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Jimmy Saville to be revealed as a paedophile? (Part 7)


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Old 20-01-2013, 17:34
IzzyS
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http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...=#post61615201

And his details on Wiki have changed. Luckily I took a screen cap of the old page...
I don't know who that is but speaking of piano players, I found this clip with a young girl playing piano with a pianist on Jim'll Fix It:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBVaFhNuBCI

see 3:50 'we've had some super fun with that young lady all day today - very confident, very good piano player - excellent'. Its probably innocent but its hard not to think that sounds a little creepy certainly the start of that sentence, nowadays. Also, really random question but what's with the funny black squares on one wall? weird...

Web.archive.org could also be useful for finding previous versions of pages that have been edited, unless information was published and deleted/edited particularly quickly...

If Savile were alive, i suppose he would be delighted

This is a mess, needs to be resolved soon

The corruption of a generation: In a major Mail series, a renowned psychologist argues that our daughters are facing an unprecedented crisis... sexualisiation from primary school age

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...ed-crisis.html
Its pretty sad but im not quite sure how it could be resolved as such?. I didn't know about sex, ie understanding it as being a physical act, until I was about 9 or 10 I think - the subject of periods was also mentioned at school at that age, I think either 9 or 10 but I've heard that nowadays some girls start theirs as young as 8 years old? I was 12!

I think when I first became 'exposed' to semi-graphic sexual um material, or whatever the correct term is, was a month before I turned 14 when I bought a particular compliation CD as it was similar to R&B which I liked, swing music - I wasn't familiar with the artists but I asked whats swing music and was told its similar to other music I liked - alot of the songs were really quite smutty. I can't remember if it had the parental guidance sticker on it but it was my dad I'd asked about it and he said to get it, so *shrug* lol its almost kinda funny...I definitely felt a bit weird listening to some of that stuff back then but thought oh well, I guess this is what adults listen to, it must be kinda cool LOL I used my portable CD player, so they wouldn't have heard it.

There are other awkward moments with my parents when I was older but it was just perhaps slightly bad judgement on their part, I don't think their dodgy at all - it makes me laugh a bit but its embarrassing at the time. Maybe its more that I'm too sensitive? watching sex scenes in movies in front of your parents is always a little uncomfortable one way or another though, let alone something else im thinking of... but anywhoo, going off topic there sorry(!).

Anyway thats just me and I grew up as a teen in the 90s, so I guess its different now, people get exposed to things at a younger age. Its a bit scary to think about - I don't know how much you can shield kids from certain things, with the internet being easily available on phones and TVs and everything else. I was a bit disappointed I was the only kid in my class who didn't have my own TV in my room when I was young but my parents insisted I wouldn't be allowed one until I was 13 and I wasn't allowed a VCR to tape shows on, until I was 15 - people thought that was lame but probably not as lame as the fact that my parents insisted I went to sleep earlier than everyone else in my class admitted to as well - oh the memories(!).

I have just seen this on another forum....I haven't heard anything on the news about this ..(perhaps I missed it) I would have thought it would have been headline news.
I haven't heard it mentioned on TV either, as far as I can remember. Perhaps their trying to keep it more under the radar compared to Operation Yewtree, their hoping not to tip off anyone involved(?).
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Old 20-01-2013, 17:34
sangreal
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Agree completely that that story doesn't make him a paedophile or pervert, though there would still be the question of whether there were other Jane Nevins in his life around that time.
Well, no-one else has come forward....
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Old 20-01-2013, 17:42
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I haven't posted for a while, yet I have enormous respect for other posters on this thread, who, no matter how overwhelming or harrowing, continue to post intelligent and in depth insights, keeping abreast of latest developments and up to date links.

It's funny you read so much, but occasionally an article still has the power to take you completely off guard. It's encouraging in one respect, yet terribly sad that thanks to the enormous courage of others that have so far come forward, this poor soul has only just felt brave enough to speak out.

No words really.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...atanist-ritual
You actually believe that rubbish!?
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Old 20-01-2013, 17:58
Asmo
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You actually believe that rubbish!?
It sounds like someone saw Rosemary's baby and a bunch of Hammer movies and mistook them for documentaries.

Only Evangelicals with an axe to grind would buy that.
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Old 20-01-2013, 18:02
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Beeb apologises of Savile parody on CBeebies
http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-rad...arody-cbeebies


Elm Guest House
http://davidhencke.wordpress.com/201...investigation/
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Old 20-01-2013, 18:40
Linda_Danvers
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You actually believe that rubbish!?

You don't?
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Old 20-01-2013, 18:46
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Anyone who does wants their head checked...
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Old 20-01-2013, 18:52
Linda_Danvers
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It sounds like someone saw Rosemary's baby and a bunch of Hammer movies and mistook them for documentaries.

Only Evangelicals with an axe to grind would buy that.
This is a far cry from Rosemary's Baby and Hammer films. It seems to me more like a buch of sadistic child abusers trying to scare a girl for life using all that satanic nonsense. According to a blog of a woman who was supposedly a victim of "ritualistic" child abuse, satanists (not of the Anton LaVey kind) don't really believe in the devil (the satanic thing is more to scare their victims) and it is more like a philosophy of life, with people who crave power. They believe evil is the true human nature and practicing would bring the true freedom.

I don't know if this shit exists. It seems too unreal to me too and I don't think I believe it. But I doubt the Express would play with something as serious as child rape and IMO, it doesn't seem to me the woman telling this story is doing it for money or publicity. It could be all from her heard, she may have been victim of serious child abuse in her childhood and in the light of the recent scandal, she became disturbed.
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Old 20-01-2013, 18:58
Linda_Danvers
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Anyone who does wants their head checked...
I work in the judiciary. There is WORSE shit than that, believe me. Terrible stories. Abuse of children and adults by groups is, unfortunately, not that rare.
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Old 20-01-2013, 19:22
jonm01
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Not for a minute..
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Old 20-01-2013, 19:23
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Paula was too traumatised to tell the police. However, she spoke to the Sunday Express

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...atanist-ritual
How strange. She wouldn't talk to the police, but she would talk to a Sunday paper. Personally, I don't believe a word of it.
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Old 20-01-2013, 19:31
Linda_Danvers
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How strange. She wouldn't talk to the police, but she would talk to a Sunday paper. Personally, I don't believe a word of it.
Maybe she thought the police reaction would be the same as here and she knew at least the paper would listen to her.

I don't believe it happened either. It seems all too much theatrical: Savile smoking his cigar on a throne-like chair wearing a robe, a man saying "You really fixed this one, Jim" while he raped her, etc. It reminds me of "I''m King Jimmy" of the cub scout story. However, this is not worse story of child abuse I've read and I could see sadistic child abusers doing that to scare a child. Anyway, she seems to me a really disturbed woman and I hope she gets help.
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Old 20-01-2013, 19:36
Asmo
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This is a far cry from Rosemary's Baby and Hammer films.
The description is straight out of those films - literally, it could be describing the sex scene in Rosemary's baby or the 'black mass' in a couple of Hammer films.

Jimmy wore a mask but managed to smoke a Cigar, and his cover was blown by people using his catchphrase?
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Old 20-01-2013, 19:40
Saltydog1955
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Maybe she thought the police reaction would be the same as here and she knew at least the paper would listen to her.

I don't believe it happened either. It seems all too much theatrical: Savile smoking his cigar on a throne-like chair wearing a robe, a man saying "You really fixed this one, Jim" while he raped her, etc. It reminds me of "I''m King Jimmy" of the cub scout story. However, this is not worse story of child abuse I've read and I could see sadistic child abusers doing that to scare a child. Anyway, she seems to me a really disturbed woman and I hope she gets help.
The paper will listen to her because that kind of sensationalist rubbish sells papers. She does sound seriously disturbed.

With respect Linda, you may well have heard worse stories in your line of work, but it doesn't automatically mean they aren't fabricated.
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Old 20-01-2013, 19:46
Linda_Danvers
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The description is straight out of those films - literally, it could be describing the sex scene in Rosemary's baby or the 'black mass' in a couple of Hammer films.
Nah, in Rosemary's Baby the worshippers are naked and she is on a bed. In the Express story, they were wearing robes and she was on a table. Even if the scenes are similar, it doesn't mean the abusers couldn't get an "inspiration" from fiction. The story seems to me delusions of a woman who needs help. I only wish the Express wouldn't print it. Stories like these don't help at all
.
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Old 20-01-2013, 19:48
MC_Satan
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More Denis Wheatley as I said earlier in the thread.
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Old 20-01-2013, 19:58
Linda_Danvers
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The paper will listen to her because that kind of sensationalist rubbish sells papers. She does sound seriously disturbed.

With respect Linda, you may well have heard worse stories in your line of work, but it doesn't automatically mean they aren't fabricated.
The worse stories I've read aren't about ritual abuse. They are more like group rape of children and adults (I remember a group rape, followed by a murder), very disturbing stuff, really depressing. And these are convictions (I work on appellations). They happened. This kind of evil exists.

Even if the environment of the sexual abuse of that woman, with robes and chanting, makes the story more unbelievable, it doesn't mean Savile wasn't capable of something similar, without the robes and "Hail Satan". From all what I've read, he was. I don't believe the story because it's way too dramatic. And because I don't want to believe a group such as that one exists.
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Old 20-01-2013, 20:01
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Initially, in the early days of the thread - when news of Savile's abuse was revealed, perhaps because we were still reeling from the shock and extent of it all, we were tending more to give these women the benefit of the doubt. I can see though that over time as the numbers of those coming forward has abated, it's much easier to spot someone spinning a yarn! Her story was so visually descriptive.....(and yes, I can see now, almost too melodramatic) well yes, I took at face value.

I'm more than happy to be proved wrong, but as that's unlikely to happen, bow to the judgement of those who have poured over many such articles in recent months and can tell the difference. (Slap on head smiley!)
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Old 20-01-2013, 20:34
Linda_Danvers
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It appears Savile did own a computer, at least until five years ago:


http://m.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio...-spun-me-yarns

I wonder what was made of it. If he thrown it away before his death. If he still owned near his death, his family (or friends) probably took it after he died. It could have precious evidence.

I'm more than happy to be proved wrong, but as that's unlikely to happen, bow to the judgement of those who have poured over many such articles in recent months and can tell the difference. (Slap on head smiley!)
You know, even if it is unlikely, the story can be real. We will never know. It's not like she is describing people eating babies or demons appearing from fire and sulfur.
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Old 20-01-2013, 20:49
IzzyS
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It appears Savile did own a computer, at least until five years ago:


http://m.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio...-spun-me-yarns

I wonder what was made of it. If he thrown it away before his death. If he still owned near his death, his family (or friends) probably took it after he died. It could have precious evidence.



You know, even if it is unlikely, the story can be real. We will never know. It's not like she is describing people eating babies or demons appearing from fire and sulfur.
He told alot of lies...why bother to say that? he should have asked him why lie but I guess he felt he'd been misled already so why bother?.

I can understand the concept that there may have been such supposed rituals take place somewhere (I'm not sure about the hospital setting) with the strange/intimidating clothing and scriptures etc. spoken, done with hopes to help partly discredit the victim, if they go to the authorities and claim things that sound outrageous, they may be less likely to believe them that it happened, particularly if the person has health problems and is on strong medication. Like you say, its much less believable if they start to talk about evil miracle equivalent happened, like apparitions appearing out of a puff of smoke or something like that.

If other people are involved then maybe we'll find out something, if evidence can be found from the other people but there again, they've probably had plenty of time to get rid of any such evidence, so its likely we'll never know for sure.
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Old 20-01-2013, 20:55
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This is allegedly some of the Elm Guest House documents
http://postimage.org/gallery/7pkkeq9g/
but obviously no way of authenticating them. Could be a hoax, although quite an elaborate one.
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Old 20-01-2013, 21:14
Linda_Danvers
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He told alot of lies...why bother to say that? he should have asked him why lie but I guess he felt he'd been misled already so why bother?.

I can understand the concept that there may have been such supposed rituals take place somewhere (I'm not sure about the hospital setting) with the strange/intimidating clothing and scriptures etc. spoken, done with hopes to help partly discredit the victim, if they go to the authorities and claim things that sound outrageous, they may be less likely to believe them that it happened, particularly if the person has health problems and is on strong medication. Like you say, its much less believable if they start to talk about evil miracle equivalent happened, like apparitions appearing out of a puff of smoke or something like that.

If other people are involved then maybe we'll find out something, if evidence can be found from the other people but there again, they've probably had plenty of time to get rid of any such evidence, so its likely we'll never know for sure.
Yes, the journalist probably thought JS wouldn't bother telling the true and probably would say it was his nephew's computer or something.

Yes, the woman can be telling the true. The "ritual" could have been made to discredit her and scare her. I think she has some imagination and, while she may have suffered some terrible abuse in the past, I don't really think the story is true. However, if it is true, IMO, it would be more of a work of sadistic child abusers than a secret conspiracy of satanists.
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Old 20-01-2013, 21:16
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This is allegedly some of the Elm Guest House documents
http://postimage.org/gallery/7pkkeq9g/
but obviously no way of authenticating them. Could be a hoax, although quite an elaborate one.
Did you read the names? The "world famous" popstar ir more like a famous singer in Britain. He isn't that much famous in the world.
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Old 20-01-2013, 21:34
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The main reason I'm sceptical of 'Satanic abuse'-type stories* is that you wouldn't need to go to such lengths to intimidate a child.

In fact, the very bizarreness of the experience might make the child remember and dwell on it, rather than, as many do, try to deal with the experience through such processes as dissociation, denial and memory suppression.
As we have seen over and over again, children and young people can be fairly easily frightened and manipulated into silence. Even if they do speak up, they might not be believed.

*Apart from the obvious reason, i.e. that there aren't any real Satan-worshippers who conduct Eyes Wide Shut-themed shenanigans because, in our secular age, there is no need to defy God by worshipping the Devil. Here in Britain, at least, most people are apathetic about religion.
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Old 20-01-2013, 21:47
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Nah, in Rosemary's Baby the worshippers are naked and she is on a bed. In the Express story, they were wearing robes and she was on a table. Even if the scenes are similar, it doesn't mean the abusers couldn't get an "inspiration" from fiction. The story seems to me delusions of a woman who needs help. I only wish the Express wouldn't print it. Stories like these don't help at all
.
Yes, but the gathering round and cheering/chanting the act on rings bells. Polanksi has depicted similar scenes in other films too, and his own misdeeds have led to a few drawing links of their own.
The regalia and staging is pure Wheatley - The Devil rides out for example. A totally invented vision of a ritual, with sacrifice usually substituted for the sex act as it's somehow less controversial!

In this story (prompted, one notes, by the express's previous story of something similar) the solemnity of the scene is broken by somebody exclaiming "you definitely fixed this one Jim!" - makes it sound like Carry On Satan. Kind of spoils the point of hiding your identity if your mates are going to blurt your name and catchphrase out. A catchphrase that only began in May 1975 - pretty tight, as this was allegedly enacted the same year.

Sure, it's within the realms of possibility that abusers could put on a show to discredit their victims claims, but as diversionary tactics go this would rank as epic.
And pointless, as the kicker is the claim that this was "with the consent of my parents, who were well known Satanists".

Rrright.....


The Express should indeed be ashamed.
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