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Jimmy Saville to be revealed as a paedophile? (Part 7)


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Old 20-01-2013, 21:49
sangreal
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The names.... allegedly...
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Old 20-01-2013, 21:52
Dan Fortesque
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I wonder why some of them just didn't give false names.
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Old 20-01-2013, 21:56
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Yes, the journalist probably thought JS wouldn't bother telling the true and probably would say it was his nephew's computer or something.

Yes, the woman can be telling the true. The "ritual" could have been made to discredit her and scare her. I think she has some imagination and, while she may have suffered some terrible abuse in the past, I don't really think the story is true. However, if it is true, IMO, it would be more of a work of sadistic child abusers than a secret conspiracy of satanists.
It seems kind of bizarre that sort of story - being told something that didn't add up and just leaving it as that...I think a few journalists have similar stories, where he's said things that they either knew then or shortly after couldn't have been true but just let it drop.

I hope she gets the help she needs, either way. Like you mentioned before, if true then I also think its all about power play and authority. When the topic was brought up, it made me think of a TV show here called Waterloo Road about teen pupils in a Scottish school - there was one episode where a girl of African ethnicity was sent by her father to be exorcised to try and cure her bad attitude(!) they say such things can still go on these days - it was some 'friend' to the family who was some kind of witch doctor and rented out a church hall - it was pretty strange to watch but the show tries to cover issues that are current and happens in real life (other issues including teen pregnancy, gang culture, forced/arranged marriage and alcoholism etc.), so I guess that sort of thing does go on, in an underground way - if people are still claiming to carry out exorcisms of some sort then maybe other things go on but I'd certainly like to hope not. It feels very uncomfortable thinking about such things - I don't like to be naive and presume everything to be true and fact with no real evidence but equally, do things go on that we don't all see ourselves? possibly.
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Old 20-01-2013, 22:01
lexi22
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In this story (prompted, one notes, by the express's previous story of something similar) the solemnity of the scene is broken by somebody exclaiming "you definitely fixed this one Jim!" - makes it sound like Carry On Satan.
You've nailed it.

Such fabricated rubbish. E for effort.
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Old 20-01-2013, 22:03
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The main reason I'm sceptical of 'Satanic abuse'-type stories* is that you wouldn't need to go to such lengths to intimidate a child.

In fact, the very bizarreness of the experience might make the child remember and dwell on it, rather than, as many do, try to deal with the experience through such processes as dissociation, denial and memory suppression.
As we have seen over and over again, children and young people can be fairly easily frightened and manipulated into silence. Even if they do speak up, they might not be believed.

*Apart from the obvious reason, i.e. that there aren't any real Satan-worshippers who conduct Eyes Wide Shut-themed shenanigans because, in our secular age, there is no need to defy God by worshipping the Devil. Here in Britain, at least, most people are apathetic about religion.
Very early on in this thread I recounted a story about meeting someone who had been been ritually abused.Her story was in great detail and horrifying. I would have loved not to have believed her as it was so terrifying but I wanted to help her and phoned a help line and repeated her story. The lady at the other end said her story was identical to other ritual abuse stories and asked if I had any young children (I had ) and she told me that once part of this it is very hard to get away from them and they would use her to get to my child! I dropped her like a hot potato which i felt very bad about but my child had to come first.

She told me that she could never go to the police with her story as they were involved including well known judges and famous people and she would not be safe. I know she was having counselling and I hope she found the right help and closure.

Her story gave me quite a few sleepless nights and as I researched it in depth I do to this day believe every word of it so please don't be so dismissive of satanic ritual abuse as something out of a fairy tale. I wish I thought the same but after this encounter I just can't
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Old 20-01-2013, 22:05
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I wonder why some of them just didn't give false names.
Perhaps they would have been recognised, or felt very safe doing so, believing they were protected?
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Old 20-01-2013, 22:09
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Weird just as I was posting my above post my security programme came up with a threat and said I had to close down pc
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Old 20-01-2013, 22:12
lexi22
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Her story gave me quite a few sleepless nights and as I researched it in depth I do to this day believe every word of it so please don't be so dismissive of satanic ritual abuse as something out of a fairy tale. I wish I thought the same but after this encounter I just can't
All the more reason for the Express to be utterly ashamed of themselves for printing that load of transparently sensationalist and hysterical tosh. All it does it generate ridicule which is unhelpful, to put it mildly, for those who genuinely are victims of satanic ritual abuse.
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Old 20-01-2013, 22:12
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The main reason I'm sceptical of 'Satanic abuse'-type stories* is that you wouldn't need to go to such lengths to intimidate a child.

In fact, the very bizarreness of the experience might make the child remember and dwell on it, rather than, as many do, try to deal with the experience through such processes as dissociation, denial and memory suppression.
As we have seen over and over again, children and young people can be fairly easily frightened and manipulated into silence. Even if they do speak up, they might not be believed.

*Apart from the obvious reason, i.e. that there aren't any real Satan-worshippers who conduct Eyes Wide Shut-themed shenanigans because, in our secular age, there is no need to defy God by worshipping the Devil. Here in Britain, at least, most people are apathetic about religion.
I don't know about that, maybe it depends on the age of the victim. If an older child is touched inappropriately, especially nowadays, they may know thats wrong and to go to someone else and tell them what happened but if they had such a strange, elaborate experience they may feel that they'd be made a laughing stock if they explained oh these guys wore these strange colourful masks and shouted this and that and all the rest of it - it would be more off putting to say that, than knowing all you have to say is a person put their hand right up my legs/chest or whatever may have happened. I think personally it would take more courage to report such an elaborate assault, to quite a large extent...but that doesn't really prove anything, it could well be a work of fantasy.

Its true fewer and fewer people attend church services here nowadays and there may be more cynicism relating to religion but that doesn't mean there aren't some people with extreme views. I think its a shame people are apathetic - faith can be an important part of life, I've always found it interesting (a word I use too much, I know).
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Old 20-01-2013, 22:15
Keyser Soze
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Perhaps they would have been recognised, or felt very safe doing so, believing they were protected?
It would be difficult for someone very famous to get away with using a false name, because everyone would know who they were.

I think you're right about people feeling protected.
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Old 20-01-2013, 22:40
wallo mr slug
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I work in the judiciary. There is WORSE shit than that, believe me. Terrible stories. Abuse of children and adults by groups is, unfortunately, not that rare.
The fact that you work in the same sector as me and yet would take an article from a tabloid at face value as undisputed fact, quite frankly terrifies me.

If you work in judiciary, as you claim to, you should approach this with a higher scepticism and wider experience than most.
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Old 20-01-2013, 22:42
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Very early on in this thread I recounted a story about meeting someone who had been been ritually abused.Her story was in great detail and horrifying. I would have loved not to have believed her as it was so terrifying but I wanted to help her and phoned a help line and repeated her story. The lady at the other end said her story was identical to other ritual abuse stories and asked if I had any young children (I had ) and she told me that once part of this it is very hard to get away from them and they would use her to get to my child! I dropped her like a hot potato which i felt very bad about but my child had to come first.

She told me that she could never go to the police with her story as they were involved including well known judges and famous people and she would not be safe. I know she was having counselling and I hope she found the right help and closure.

Her story gave me quite a few sleepless nights and as I researched it in depth I do to this day believe every word of it so please don't be so dismissive of satanic ritual abuse as something out of a fairy tale. I wish I thought the same but after this encounter I just can't
So charities/helplines apparently know whats been going on but stay quiet about it because the police are involved? if so, thats pretty depressing deep stuff. Sounds very disturbing... I can understand feeling bad about dropping it but its understandable, obviously you wouldn't want to endanger your own child. Horrible.
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Old 20-01-2013, 22:46
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to be honest i think this story has run on long enough.. one thing we do know he is dead and as such he cannot be bought to justice. and the others involved.
so far only two have been charged out of 12 alledgements.
But chargeing is one thing being sent to prison is another matter ... ther eis no doubt the BBC faces censure on this as it was pretty obvious from the start some highups knew what was goingon and some was even involved;.
I suppose the next question have anything been learnt yes. The pop music industry and some of them in it are nasty pieces of work.
And those involved in teh hospitals and charities who saville worked for theyshould be ashamed of themselves suppose to protect children yet they did not..
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Old 20-01-2013, 23:03
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Yes, but the gathering round and cheering/chanting the act on rings bells. Polanksi has depicted similar scenes in other films too, and his own misdeeds have led to a few drawing links of their own.
The regalia and staging is pure Wheatley - The Devil rides out for example. A totally invented vision of a ritual, with sacrifice usually substituted for the sex act as it's somehow less controversial!

In this story (prompted, one notes, by the express's previous story of something similar) the solemnity of the scene is broken by somebody exclaiming "you definitely fixed this one Jim!" - makes it sound like Carry On Satan. Kind of spoils the point of hiding your identity if your mates are going to blurt your name and catchphrase out. A catchphrase that only began in May 1975 - pretty tight, as this was allegedly enacted the same year.

Sure, it's within the realms of possibility that abusers could put on a show to discredit their victims claims, but as diversionary tactics go this would rank as epic.
And pointless, as the kicker is the claim that this was "with the consent of my parents, who were well known Satanists".

Rrright.....


The Express should indeed be ashamed.
Lol that was supposedly said? oh dear... it does sound rather ridiculous. I imagine if you have power to get away with carrying out such things then you would want to gloat about it (which is why it surprises me a bit how many friends of JS were apparently completely clueless to his double life) but to blurt out a line like that? seems unlikely... JS did seem to think of himself as untouchable though, so perhaps in a way he didnt mind if people may have figured out who he was, if the thinking was that to report the assault they'd still have to describe it and would be labelled as delusional for claiming such outrageous things happened? how could you say such a person would do such a thing, you do know who your talking about, right? etc. but I do have my doubts.

The fact that you work in the same sector as me and yet would take an article from a tabloid at face value as undisputed fact, quite frankly terrifies me.

If you work in judiciary, as you claim to, you should approach this with a higher scepticism and wider experience than most.
If you check her posts, she never said she took the article at face value and she does actually doubt the story but isn't 100% sure either way, as far as im aware.
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Old 20-01-2013, 23:15
IzzyS
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to be honest i think this story has run on long enough.. one thing we do know he is dead and as such he cannot be bought to justice. and the others involved.
so far only two have been charged out of 12 alledgements.
But chargeing is one thing being sent to prison is another matter ... ther eis no doubt the BBC faces censure on this as it was pretty obvious from the start some highups knew what was goingon and some was even involved;.
I suppose the next question have anything been learnt yes. The pop music industry and some of them in it are nasty pieces of work.
And those involved in teh hospitals and charities who saville worked for theyshould be ashamed of themselves suppose to protect children yet they did not..
Their still investigating the 'JS and others' strand of Operation Yewtree - if they can prove others abused alongside him and are (obviously) still alive, then its only right to bring them to justice, so I don't feel the story is entirely over yet, plus its good that it highlights the general issue of child abuse and if it makes us tighten up child protection laws to further prevent abuse then thats great, so good things can come of it, its not just a case of a dead man being accused of things and thats that.

MWT tweeted the other week that there's still quite alot more yet to come out (I can only presume he's privvy to inside information relating to the investigations).
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Old 20-01-2013, 23:22
Linda_Danvers
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The fact that you work in the same sector as me and yet would take an article from a tabloid at face value as undisputed fact, quite frankly terrifies me.

If you work in judiciary, as you claim to, you should approach this with a higher scepticism and wider experience than most.
I didn't take at face value. I said before I don't believe it happened. I work on appeals and analysis, but I don't decide anything. No need to feel terrified.
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Old 21-01-2013, 01:40
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It would be difficult for someone very famous to get away with using a false name, because everyone would know who they were.

I think you're right about people feeling protected.
I would have thought that having a recognisable face would actually allow you to get away without leaving a paper trial. Why would you put down a real name, if you could put down Mr. X for instance? As you know who Mr. X is, you're not going to mistake him for Mr. Y or Mr. Z.

Of course, if you never conceive of any of this ever going public you might not think to use false names to protect your clients.
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Old 21-01-2013, 01:46
wallo mr slug
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I didn't take at face value. I said before I don't believe it happened. I work on appeals and analysis, but I don't decide anything. No need to feel terrified.
My apologies, I fully admit I didn't read your posts properly.
I hope that I didn't cause you any offence and I take back my posts.
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Old 21-01-2013, 02:39
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My apologies, I fully admit I didn't read your posts properly.
I hope that I didn't cause you any offence and I take back my posts.
It's ok. No hard feelings.
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Old 21-01-2013, 02:46
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I hope she gets the help she needs, either way. Like you mentioned before, if true then I also think its all about power play and authority..
I just realized something, Izzy. What she said in the article about what she saw: Savile on a chair-like throne in bright robes with two men in blue robes beside him. People with robes and masks around them. It is just like the "ritual" scene in that Kubrick film, "Eyes Wide Shut". At 3:57:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ3hOBZ_byo

And I was giving this woman the benefit of the doubt! At least in what she believed it happened. What a load of tosh indeed!
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Old 21-01-2013, 03:32
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Yes, but the gathering round and cheering/chanting the act on rings bells. Polanksi has depicted similar scenes in other films too, and his own misdeeds have led to a few drawing links of their own.
The regalia and staging is pure Wheatley - The Devil rides out for example. A totally invented vision of a ritual, with sacrifice usually substituted for the sex act as it's somehow less controversial!
Yes, you're right. I've just realized part of the scenary is taken right from "Eyes Wide Shut". Now I'm not sure if she is unbalanced or an ouright liar.

Including the "world-famous" popstar (more famous in England). Lots of politicians. A member of Sinn Féin? Weird.
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Old 21-01-2013, 09:08
Keyser Soze
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Yes, you're right. I've just realized part of the scenary is taken right from "Eyes Wide Shut". Now I'm not sure if she is unbalanced or an ouright liar.



Including the "world-famous" popstar (more famous in England). Lots of politicians. A member of Sinn Féin? Weird.
The satanic sex ritual stuff we see in films is influenced by the life/works of Aleister Crowley. He really did do stuff like that (at least for some of his life).

As for the mix of people on that list: It opens the possibility of blackmail and people doing 'favours' for one another.

That list is the only one I've seen. Has it been verified as being the real list?
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Old 21-01-2013, 10:57
IzzyS
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I just realized something, Izzy. What she said in the article about what she saw: Savile on a chair-like throne in bright robes with two men in blue robes beside him. People with robes and masks around them. It is just like the "ritual" scene in that Kubrick film, "Eyes Wide Shut". At 3:57:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ3hOBZ_byo

And I was giving this woman the benefit of the doubt! At least in what she believed it happened. What a load of tosh indeed!
I haven't seen that movie, so I wouldn't have been able to make the link before. I think quite alot if not most depictions of such things (underground cult rituals, especially if involving non-members of the cult, to intimidate them) on TV and on stage are a bit like that - people disguised in large numbers with uniforms of some sort, wearing robes or cloaks or whatever to indicate their part of some sort of clique/group/cult or whatever...like superheros in numbers I suppose, only their evil instead of good lol. It seems bit 'Phantom of the Opera-esque', would look good on stage but its a bit hard to believe such things happen just like that 'in real life', unless it really is underground perhaps. The closest real life equivalent I can think of is goths who you can identify usually from the black clothing, usually wearing tops to do with heavy rock or metal artists and black makeup and hanging around cemetries and stuff (or they used to - my old school was opposite a cemetry and we were warned not to go there during the lunch break at one point, it was annoying locals. I remember there was a goth in my registration class). The difference is that goths are pretty harmless and don't carry out sacrifices or abuse, of course.

There are shops in Venice, Italy that specialise in masquerade masks, really fancy ones with gold and silver and other material laced into them etc. - on the first Backstreet Boys cruise they had a masquerade ball and someone I knew bought a few masks from one of those shops to sell to others going on the cruise for wearing at the ball lol.
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Old 21-01-2013, 13:05
Emma_Beck
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Given what has come out in the past year, are you really so quick to disbelieve the unbelievable? I know I'm not and I know you'll call me an idiot for it but quite frankly I don't care.
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Old 21-01-2013, 13:40
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I'm not sure if this has been posted already, but Private Eye issue 1326 related
a story by Victor Lewis-Smith of the Evening Standard. Lewis-Smith remembered meeting Jimmy Savile in a chip shop in Scarborough. Savile was with an armed "minder" and inviting young girls "upstairs". A conversation followed in which Savile introduced the minder
with 'This is my partner. He carries the gun', whereupon the minder opened his jacket to reveal a handgun. Obviously they were threatening VLS so he wouldn't talk about what he had seen.
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