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Jimmy Saville to be revealed as a paedophile? (Part 7)


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Old 11-01-2013, 14:23
alfster
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... now there is evidence which has been investigated and verified, as opposed to accusations, you mean.
Well, we can now say 'Saville alleged/accused of being peadophile as, if I have read it correctly, some of the assualted were 10years old? I've only seen this yesterday in a'yewtree to show Saville victims were as young as 10.'

Froma legal point of view until he's convicted in a court of law it is still an accusation.

Sorry to be anally semantic about this but I've seen how people's lives have been ruined by false accusations that have fallen apart in court and hence until someone is convicted then it is just an allegation.

Obviously, in Saville's case one has to take a slightly different final view on things as he'll never come to trial.

I just hope that enough lessons are learnt about how power & celebrity can influence things that things change. And this also shows from the other arrests how easily celebrities can be accused of things...one will persume the others will be processed through the legal system and either prosecuted or found to have nothing to answer.
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Old 11-01-2013, 14:30
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Or that Savile had stuff on them. Remember the story in his autobiography when he said 'if I go down I'll take half the station with me' or words to that effect.
And they are the people who they should be going after now (if they are still alive) not ex DJ's who did wrong by having a grope of a 20 year old but nothing compared to what Saville did.
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Old 11-01-2013, 14:59
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... now there is evidence which has been investigated and verified, as opposed to accusations, you mean.
I don't think that is correct, in the report it sates a significant number of those making allegations have not been interviewed by the police.
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Old 11-01-2013, 15:04
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Who were Savile's victims? graphic
https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/2...437953/photo/1

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20984284
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Old 11-01-2013, 15:16
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The CPS statement about why Savile was not prosecuted
http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/press_sta..._savile_cases/


Good summary by Channel 4 News
http://www.channel4.com/news/jimmy-s...xtent-of-abuse
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Old 11-01-2013, 15:20
jack patterson
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These whole Savile accusations have been based on the fact that the past was a naive time and people were too scared to challenge a celebrity


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Adamson


So why not Savile then ?
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Old 11-01-2013, 15:37
dmuk
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Because Saville was basically the godfather but with more Jewellery.

This whole thing hasn't added up from day one tbh.
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Old 11-01-2013, 16:02
inquirer64
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Quotes from today's publication reference Yewtree: "Giving Victims a Voice"

"2.9 Whilst the NSPCC Helpline was contacted by some people who had previously reported their concerns and wished to alert the authorities again, the majority of people had never spoken about their experiences to the authorities until now. The reasons cited for this were varied and included the fear of not being believed and a lack of trust in statutory agencies or feeling that the justice system would be ineffective in prosecuting the offender".

So how many people had contacted before and had they been ignored or were thorough investigations made?

2.10 The earliest reported incident was in1955 in Manchester, the final reported offence was in 2009. The location of alleged offending was predominately in Leeds and London - Savileís home town and his main work location.

Was the Manchester incident reported to the Police or anyone in authority? How many other reported incidents made after 1955?

2.11 There are reports of offences from when Savile worked at the BBC between1965 and 2006, at the final recording of Top of the Pops. At Leeds General Infirmary, where he was a porter, offending was reported between 1965 and 1995. At Stoke Mandeville Hospital, where he was also a porter, reported offending took place between 1965 and 1988. At Duncroft School there are allegations of offences between 1970 and 1978 when he was a regular visitor.

Again, how many were reported directly to an authority at the time? What was done?

2.16 Most victims did not come forward at the time of the alleged offences although records show that some allegations about Savile were made to police in the past. These did not proceed for a number of reasons such as victims and witnesses not wishing to take matters further and Her Majestyís Inspectorate of Constabulary(HMIC) is currently looking at these interactions to see whether any opportunities
were missed.

How many is "some"? The next bit says there were a number of reasons not to proceed and then goes on to suggest just one - which is to blame the victims!!

3.7 It is now clear that Savile was hiding in plain sight and using his celebrity status and fundraising activity to gain uncontrolled access to vulnerable people across six decades. For a variety of reasons the vast majority of his victims did not feel they could speak out and itís apparent that some of the small number who did had their accounts dismissed by those in authority including parents and carers.

It is stated that accounts were dismissed by those in authority including parents and carers. How many were dismissed by the authorities and how many by parents and carers?


6.2 Previous Investigations. Police records indicate a number of previous police interactions connected to Savile although most victims who have come forward have told the investigative team that they did not report allegations or incidents at the time. The reasons for this are listed in paragraph 8.13 of the report. At the request of the Home Secretary the HMIC is now examining the previous allegations that were made about Savile to identify any potential failings by police.

A chart follows the above giving brief details but the statement made above "the HMIC is now examining the previous allegations" seems to suggest this chart is not complete.

I have worked with children for many years and been involved with social workers when reporting suspicions of child abuse.I have also beeen involved with the NSPCC, and although we crossed swords about 35 years ago, I cannot forget how inadequate matters were dealt with (I'm being polite).

Yes, things may have changed and child abuse might now be thoroughly investigated. I hope so.
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Old 11-01-2013, 16:12
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Download the full report
http://www.nspcc.org.uk/news-and-vie...f_wdf93652.pdf
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Old 11-01-2013, 16:14
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These whole Savile accusations have been based on the fact that the past was a naive time and people were too scared to challenge a celebrity


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Adamson


So why not Savile then ?
It's a very good point. Perhaps though Savile was viewed as way too famous and influential, whereas someone like Adamson was seen as dispensable?
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Old 11-01-2013, 16:17
Dan Fortesque
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No evidence of a paedophile ring. How many times have we heard that one before.
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Old 11-01-2013, 16:36
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Sun has a map of where thee offences took place
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...#ixzz2HgVuWSEo


Download the spreadsheet
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...MP=twt_fd#data


NSPCC following up the report with a new media campaign
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/gree...n-jimmy-savile
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Old 11-01-2013, 16:47
dorydaryl
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Terrible. Not only what he did but the lack of concerted action by those who plainly knew what he was up to. I hope they're hanging their heads in shame.

Also, what about the ones who have not come forward or who are dead themselves?
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Old 11-01-2013, 17:00
Linda_Danvers
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Nothing new in these reports. They didn't report the evidence found (the similar accusations which didn't appeared in the press) nor how many reports to authorities were made. They should have highlighted that. It was just some accounts of the numbers, the usual apologies and the expected "Savile was monster" allusions. The only thing that shocked me is that among the rape victims were children under ten. It was not enough abuse children, the disabled and the dying, I was hoping Savile had at least some standards and drew the line somewhere. Apparently not.
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Old 11-01-2013, 17:37
alfster
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No evidence of a paedophile ring. How many times have we heard that one before.
So you either don;t believe the findings in report or you think that there are in many cases but have not been found?
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Old 11-01-2013, 17:37
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Video - interview with Peter Watt of the NSPCC
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/vide...e-report-video


Edwina Currie ‏@Edwina_Currie
I will be on Ch 4 News at 7 on #Savile
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Old 11-01-2013, 18:51
IzzyS
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Completely and utterly anonymous. To the point that the collator doesn't even see your replies as they hand over the computer to you when covering possibly sensitive areas. I've done one.
Ah, so its done in person, not through the post or online etc?. I once took part in a government survey that was conducted by phone interview - it drove me a bit insane though as I kept having to ask for the questions to be re-read, I'd forget what option b) was and so on(!) it was supposed to only take maybe 10 or 20 minutes - I was still on the phone an hour later, after 9pm(!). It was really intrusive questions about my job and family too, so I didn't agree to do the follow up the next year. I think next time I get asked to do something like that and it goes on too long, I'd be tempted to just put the phone down in the end.
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Old 11-01-2013, 18:59
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C4 News starting; IMO they've done the best reporting of this unpleasant affair.

He assauled someone at the final Top of the Pops recording.
Also on - Edwina Currie and M W-T.

Currie still maintaining that Savile knew who at Broadmoor were fiddling their expenses, overtime etc, so he could threaten to blackmail them if they were going to report him.
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Old 11-01-2013, 19:14
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Anna Raccoon (for it is she!) has blogged on the report
http://www.annaraccoon.com/politics/nonce-sense/
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Old 11-01-2013, 19:17
IzzyS
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The security isn't really that much different. I woke from an operation to have a strange man hovering over me. He was apparently the hospital chaplain who had popped into my room to see if I wanted support or to talk. They let him in my private room whilst I was still out. I woke up and told him to get out - however why let him wander uninvited into strangers rooms at all and why would someone want to do that?

Security has improved in some ways but people still asssume that X wouldn't do that, or it is impossible to think that Y would do that so they don't think the rules apply to that person. I think that is what happened to JS. Of course it was always weird for someone to have a room at a hospital and wander the wards but they accepted it because it was "just Jimmy" and they are probably doing exactly the same to someone else now.
Thats interesting about the hospital chaplain - I'm not sure how that works, if a relative or guardian of the patient has to 'ok it' for them to visit them privately? presumably not? if thats a religious service, that's something I'd have thought people might rather opt in to rather than be given automatically? if there are relatives or someone around who could say whether or not their a religious person anyway.
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Old 11-01-2013, 19:28
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Thats interesting about the hospital chaplain - I'm not sure how that works, if a relative or guardian of the patient has to 'ok it' for them to visit them privately? presumably not? if thats a religious service, that's something I'd have thought people might rather opt in to rather than be given automatically? if there are relatives or someone around who could say whether or not their a religious person anyway.
One just wandered into my single hospital room with no say so from anyone I know a year ago and started chatting to me. No-one in the hospital mentioned it and it made me feel very uncomfortable. So I suppose someone 'known' by the hospital can do this?
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Old 11-01-2013, 19:36
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Jimmy Savile report: institutions in the line of fire
The BBC faces compensation claims, the government is investigating itself, and police acknowledge significant failings
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013...t-institutions

Savile scandal: reports reveal missed chances of prosecuting celebrity
Reports of NSPCC, police and CPS lawyer Alison Levitt shed light 'on sordid tale' of celebrity who abused with impunity
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013...nces-prosecute
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Old 11-01-2013, 19:37
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Thats interesting about the hospital chaplain - I'm not sure how that works, if a relative or guardian of the patient has to 'ok it' for them to visit them privately? presumably not? if thats a religious service, that's something I'd have thought people might rather opt in to rather than be given automatically? if there are relatives or someone around who could say whether or not their a religious person anyway.
Sometimes it is not a question of religion at all. The hospital chaplain is usually more than happy to sit and chat with any patient regardless of religion...their role is to listen to patients and their worries. Patients often find it easier to talk through their worries to a comparative stranger than to family or friends or with busy staff ( I don't mean medical worries but it could be just more general things)

Slightly O/T but my local vicar used to pop in to see my husband at our home when my husband was terminally ill. They talked almost exclusively about rugby for hours. She knew we were not particularly religious and respected that - no mention was made of religion. The vicar felt that as my husband lived in her parish, then he was one of her flock ( so to speak) and was basically there for him regardless.

edit...........when I was in hospital many years ago, the hospital chaplain used to visit me each evening to help with my A level revision! That was the way he could best help me!
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Old 11-01-2013, 19:40
IzzyS
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I'd like to bring everyone's attention to the comments section the Digital Spy story.
The comment is made by a user called Dalekbuster523 and this is what he had to say about the victims not getting justice because Savile is dead:
"It's the victims's own fault. They should've come forward while he was still alive."

Read more: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/...#ixzz2HfoyI0mh

There is the reason WHY abused children wont speak up. It's fear, it's the fear that they wont be believed which was the case for so many in this investigation. The victims tried to speak up but there was a massive cover up.

How utterly monstrous to say "It's the victims fault because they never spoke up"

Shame on you, Dalekbuster. Shame. On. You.
Agreed. It frustrates me when people make such comments as I keep hearing that multiple people DID speak up and their cases were dropped etc. the police were first contacted in the 1950s with claims, so its not as if its all entirely out of the blue - there were multiple accusations made while he was alive, some did speak up but happened to not get very far with it - it takes a brave person to stand up against someone like him... it shouldn't but it certainly did, it seems.
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Old 11-01-2013, 19:41
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Anna Raccoon (for it is she!) has blogged on the report
http://www.annaraccoon.com/politics/nonce-sense/
Interesting article; thanks for that. It's good to see someone trying to dig a bit deeper into the facts rather than just glibly parrot the party line.
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