I suppose I could try to go with the idea that Joseph doesn't actually realise how insensitive it's coming across, but I don't buy the idea that he'd have done it like that in the first place. Argh! I hate it


Yeah, I didn't like Jonny's attitude either. Not that I'd expect him to be jumping for joy at the fact that Jac is so cut up about it, but a tiny bit of understanding isn't too much to ask, surely? Then again, I suppose that maybe he thinks a bit of tough love added to the shock of the invite will push her into finally accepting that she needs to let go of Joseph.

Usually, as a matter of taste and decorum I would want jac to decline such an invitation but given how insensitive he's being, I almost want her to turn up looking fantastic, happily loved up with Jonny to rub his nose in it in a 'have a look at what you could have won' kind of way.

Also, it might depend on whether she has told him anything about her past, especially Joseph and how it all went wrong and finally ended. If this is the first he's heard of it, it will probably hit him from left field and might leave him feeling very hurt and angry and that she's never going to let him in and it's this guys fault. Presently I'm more inclined to find excuses for Jonny than Joseph, which is probably TPTBs intention.

The small hope I am clinging to is that the tacky invite is all down to the fiancee which means she is in no way suited to Joseph and he will eventually come to this conclusion and come grovelling back to Jac - but i cant help thinking this 2nd marriage could be a step too far for her to forgive.

Maria, I totally agree - there was no need to drag Joseph into the Jac/Jonny relationship. If they did it so that we loyal Jac fans would stop going on about how Joseph is the only man for her then they were sadly mistaken. And why should they care what we think, anyway?? All through the Sahira debacle they kept banging on about how popular the character was when in reality (looking at the forums) she was highly UNpopular. So, if they didn't give a toss about that, why couldn't they leave Joseph alone and let us at least keep the fantasy that one day they might find each other again!!

@Collins,
I am with you all the way, Sahira was probably popular initially but it soon fizzled out with the fans, I was quite blase about her when she arrived and was not that interested in her perhaps only when she interacted with Hanssen ( even that got tedious after a while) I was so fed up seeing her in every scene every week and I couldn't wait to see the back of her tbh.
You know what, I think the Jac and Joseph shippers should stick to their guns and not accept the the upcoming storyline of Joseph getting married. I still think a Jac and Joseph reconcilliation is not dead in the water imo. If in 5 years Rosie decides to leave Holby, to see Joseph could still be there and and she finds out, it never worked out with this woman. The writers can change it around and make its a plausible and happy resolution if they want to.

The thing is it is kind of in character for Joseph. He seems to be much more settled when he has a steady woman in his life. Even if he is making do and because he is a traditional soul (and certainly wouldn't dream of kids out of wedlock) he has to marry them. This got worse after Harry was born. Look how many times he halted the divorce and spent time with Faye, even though he was back with Jac. Even in Snow Queens, he seems shocked and upset when Faye says she and Harry won't live him as it won't work as they are not in love and he answers that they both love Harry. What was he intending, live with Faye for the babys sake with jac on the side for years? All reason seemed to leave the building because he was terrified of losing Harry (when I'm sure he'd have had a good custody / access case anyway). Now he is probably making so again to a certain extent because he wants Harry to have a mum and probably more kids and has given up on the hope of Jac fulfilling that role. If I were Jac, I'd even be wondering if he'd only proposed (kind of) 2 years ago because he wanted a mummy bear rather than her being 'the one'.

I honestly don't know why they feel the need to do this unless it is to force people to start shipping Janny (which I think most people were coming round to anyway. Even the die hard jac / Joseph shippers don't hate jonny or the relatonship judging from what I see online) or jac is going to screw up so badly that they thought there had to be a good trigger so she'd retain sympathy and it's all they could think of. It's such a waste, especially after going to the trouble of finally having the declaration of love as he left which as Roberts said at the time, was what viewers had wanted to see as culmination to this long running storyline. The answer one way or the other as to whether they were in love , were soul mates and did belong together even if they didn't end up so.

Couldn't they have killed her mum or grandad off if they wanted to give her a shock. Or had someone from foster care turn up to send her off the rails?

Maybe joseph has knocked this one up as well. He doesn''t seem to have mastered birth control with faye's 2 scares and his being convinced Jac was in 09 even though she kept telling him she wasn't.

If only he HAD gotten Jac pregnant back then!. Although she was at her most vile at that time, tormenting him with the baby scan picture!

He didn't exactly behave well either, trying to give her 50k to buy her off. I get he was 'in love' with Faye and didn't want to mucked up but it shows scant regard for his child if she had been pregnant. He wanted her gone so much that he'd never see his kid and that is all the money he thought it was worth? If I was Jac, that would have really hurt and I think I'd remember it, especially after seeing the way he round after Faye when she was pregnant and worships Harry.

I do sometime think it would be interesting if they revealed that she had been pregnant (it was her scan after all) and miscarried and just never told him because he was being such a git.

Yes, he was horrible to her about that - there was a pair of them in it! The fact that he rejected her and her "pregnancy" and yet was so supportive of Faye must have hurt Jac, even if she didn't show it.

Oh, but don't forget that Jac plied him with alcohol, raped him and then fed him an amnesia pill. Or at least you'd think so the way he talked to her about it afterwards, you know once he finally admitted it had happened at all - pathetic.

I can never get over how either naive or selfish all these soap men (especially medics who should know better) are re birth control and unplanned pregnancies. Obviously they assume the woman is taking care of everything as if (to use a lovely expression I heard on Hollyoaks the other day) they always 'donned the glove, before sharing the love' these nasty women wouldn't be able to entrap them into fathering their child Not to mention the other health conceerns. With Chrissie and Sam Strachen around, it is a wonder the entire staff didn't go down with STDs 2006 to 2008 sort of time.

To be fair, Joseph wasn't very nice to Faye when she first announced her pregnancy, querying if it was his, voicing the theory it was just to get extra maintenance. He came round fairly quickly and probably would have with Jac once she started showing, he got to look at scans etc.

Not to be a stranger kitkat...

Think I posted something similar on the main Holby thread (spoilered of course) saying that in Jonny's defence (after I'd said that both he and Joseph needed 'a good slap') I think most people would get annoyed if their girlfriend/boyfriend was getting upset about their ex-partner getting re-married. Especially if, as I suspect, Jonny doesn't know how intense their relationship was because Jac hasn't told him.

Also, and again in his defence (because I do like him as a character and so am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment*) we don't know that Sean takes advantage of Jac - he could also be drunk, she could come on to him or could be doing her best 'everything is fine and I'm sleeping with you because I want to' impression so he might not realise she's upset. And, I've always suspected he was sweet on Jac (which is why I really hope Vanessa isn't his wife) so he might just think it's his lucky day, especially as I'm presuming Jac is still keeping her and Jonny somewhat under wraps


* will reserve judgement on whether I still like him till after Tuesday's episode

Hello.

Yes I do remember that post now. Sorry, call it sub conscious plagerism.
The only reason I said that Sean might, if not be taking advantage certainly behaving like another ++++ of a man is if he does turn out to be married. If he is single, given that he did always seem very sweet on her, then it is okay I think, especially if he doesn't realise she is upset or sees it as the start of something. It is just if it turns out he is married so just using her as a ONS, especially if she is very drunk or upset. Have to see how it turns out but I can't imagine why else there would be another character in with his surname and it would be an easy way of explaining why we never see him again.

Hadn't thought of that - you could well be right then (although I still hope not - really liked Sean and would be disappointed if the storyline changes my view of him, even if we do never seee him again!!)

Had an unpleasant thought - if Sean is married am wondering if Vanessa is responsible for the Sean/Jac news getting out - as I think from the spoilers it might - in the 22/1 episode. I.E. she comes to the hospital to find out where Sean was, sees him with Jac, puts 2 and 2 together and then announces (a la Eastenders' and to some extent HC's usual method of revealing secrets = Jac's pregnancy scare anyone) to everyone who's listening (obviously including Jonny) that Sean and Jac have slept together (which would be truly excruciating for me). Or Jonny overhears a conversation between her (V) and Sean about where he was last night, notices the tension between Jac and Sean and that Jac is feeling uncomfortable/guilty and puts 2 and 2 together and gets (unfortunately a big fat) 4, which would be slightly better but only just.



Also, given that the men do appear to be acting like plonkers (certainly around the Jac storyline) was wondering which gender you think the writers are??

I was thinking maybe a woman that's just had a bad breakup and is a bit off with them at the moment but it could just as easily be a clueless man!!

Toddles off to find out....

Just checked. 15th is written by Julia Gilbert who joined this season and was one of the 3 writers on the opening episode, which I remember a lot of people criticized in part and many put the problems down to 3 writers having written each plot and episode 2, Chasing Demons which was Eddi's last episode.

22nd is Kirstie Swain and she is completely new, having recently graduated the BBC writers programme.

So, both women and both new to the show which could explain characters (particuarly Joseph as he is so long gone) being out of character, They may turn out to be great, but I can't help thinking (wishing) that they'd got Martha Hillyer to do it as she did Jonny and Mo's first episode and ha always had the best handle (and I think understanding) of Jac's character and particuarly her love/snark relationship with Joseph. She wrote China in Your Hands as well so knows best how the relationship was left.

Oh, maybe this will all turn out to be a storm in a teacup and not the pivotal point for Jac's downturn we are all suspecting.

Wow - you really know your stuff!!

Just remembered something about the bit about this week's Holby that I read in the TV times (you remember - the copy that attacked me in Tesco). Am sure it said something about Jac's day going from bad to worse when she finds out about Joseph, finishes with Jonny and damages a patient.

So was wondering if this meant what we're assuming she does with Sean is the reason it's over between her and Jonny or whether she dumps him (yet again) before - in which case she could 'do a Ross' and use the "WE WERE ON A BREAK" excuse.

Just seems a curious way of putting it, although I suppose they could just not be spilling all the beans.

Also, was wondering how you know that Jac and Sean end up back at her flat??

Oh I do know my stuff yes, with the aid of the excellent research tool t'internet. Maybe it could ms Naylor and Brown investigates. That's my maiden name of course. No way I'd give my current, married name away online!!!!

Seriously, maybe it's because I have friends in the industry but I take a lot of note of writers and think that hillyer is the best of the last 5 years, even better than Justin Young who is very good.

Inside Soap - 'but will jac live to regret her hasty actions when sha and Sean end up back at her place together'.

She's probably just horrible to Jonny, coming out with the usual 'this is nothing, you're nothing' lines she has before. Given we haven't actually seen them officially reconcile on screen since she dumped him in Nov and then he rejected her drink when imelda spilt her poison, an official break up is well. Technically she and joseph had argued and she thought they were breaking up before she slept with his Dad but I don't think that's ever been accepted as an excuse.

I'd imagine people would be a bit more forgiving this time because of the whole Joseph thing, and probably also because we know a bit more about her and why she is like she is (which we had no clue about when she had her affair with Lord Byrne).

I hope so - I think I could forgive Jac almost anything (now) but hope everybody else is feeling as generous

I think the audience would be more forgiving but I'm not sure the other fictional characters would be. After all, as a rule they don't see her vulnerable and her gentle side the way we do. Does anyone other than Sean know the time she spent and how close she got to Freya for example. No-one except possible Elliot know she and Joseph were involved since the 2007 break up. Only michael Spence knows aboiut her mum. Sister and grandad and how much it upset her.

They could just think Ice Queen has cheated again, especially if Sean is married. The women always seem to be held more to blame in these cases.

Ooh dear, I hadn't thought of that!!!

Right, quick glance at next weeks tv mags confirm that they doo sleep together and Vanessa is his (newly pregnant) wife. It does use the term 'ex boyfriend' for Sean so I wonder if they'rte retconning it to say there was more to their relationship than we saw back in 2010. I don't know if that makes the infidedelity more or less forgiveable.

I'm dreading tonight. I'm actually due on a course which I was going to duck as I"m not that interested but now I think it might be preferable to watching it live - at least I can stop it if it gets too traumatic to gather myself on recording.

As I think I've said before BOTHERATION STATIONS!!!!
I'm thinking that next week's episode might be worse - can't imagine how Jac will feel when she finds out that Sean is married (as am assuming[not sure if that should be hoping? but am going to go with assume] she doesn't know this already) and that even worse his wife is pregnant.

I really, really hope she doesn't know. Aside from anything else, we'll lose what little moral high ground we have over the Chrissie defenders. The ones that claim we are unfair on her whilst letting jac get away with everything.