I just realised that I missed Sohvimus' explanatory note.
Jac Naylor Life, Loves, History, Future Discussion Thread
51 of 144
I've posted this on the main thread but just cannot contain my glee that Chrissie Williams is leaving this year! I've never warmed to her as a character and as time has gone on she has just gotten worse imo. This latest storyline with Sasha/Rachel/My Son Daniel/Michael has put me off her completely. I am counting the days till shes gone....................
Found this little gem on you tube and couldn't resist posting it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4i6w5kYRJU
Think it's got most of my picks in and whole heartedly agree with 'the big one' = so far, definitely my most favourite scene!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4i6w5kYRJU
Think it's got most of my picks in and whole heartedly agree with 'the big one' = so far, definitely my most favourite scene!!
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“Maybe - I know that was the reason for jill in Crossroads 11 month pregnancy back in the 70s.
Of course, it always seems worse when there is a season break but the plot carries on the next day (which might also have been the case with Duffy). Mary-Beth Lacey's pregnancy seemed to go on for aeons for that reason.”
“Maybe - I know that was the reason for jill in Crossroads 11 month pregnancy back in the 70s.
Of course, it always seems worse when there is a season break but the plot carries on the next day (which might also have been the case with Duffy). Mary-Beth Lacey's pregnancy seemed to go on for aeons for that reason.”
Well, there was another thing that happened at the very end of the final episode of series 15 of Casualty, Duffy's husband was killed by Holly's stalker Tom. Everyone was led to believe that the funeral had been some time ago by the time series 16 started.
As for the previous discussion on scrubs, I don't know if we've ever seen Mr T in scrubs at all...
I don't think that we have seen Mr T in Scrubs. Owen used to wear pale blue ones (who was obviously the Obs and Gynae Consultant before) but that was back before they changed the colours to be different on each ward - red for Kellar, dark blue for Darwin, light blue for AAU etc. You'd think that black would be rather a depressing shade for women going in for C sections though wouldn't you - of all the specialities, the patient is more likely to be awake in theatre for Obs and Gyane I would think - maybe they don't want them to be able to see the blood - like black towels in hairdressers ....because of the hair dye their, not blood.
I know, whilst I will miss Chrissie in an odd way (certainly miss moaning about her), I do think that it is time. They are bound not to kill her off though if they did, I have a great idea how to do it. Jac has problems later on in the pregnancy (or the baby soon after birth), Chrissie starts up with the 'my child died with that horrible half smile of hers, rather than humouring her like everyone else does, Jac turns round, tells her to shut the frak up, that she is not the only woman on the planet to have lost a child, she is not the Worlds authority on maternal grief and loss and Chrissie is so stunned that she dissolves into a puddle of her own self righteous, pitying tears - a bit like the Witch in the Wizard of Oz.
I know, whilst I will miss Chrissie in an odd way (certainly miss moaning about her), I do think that it is time. They are bound not to kill her off though if they did, I have a great idea how to do it. Jac has problems later on in the pregnancy (or the baby soon after birth), Chrissie starts up with the 'my child died with that horrible half smile of hers, rather than humouring her like everyone else does, Jac turns round, tells her to shut the frak up, that she is not the only woman on the planet to have lost a child, she is not the Worlds authority on maternal grief and loss and Chrissie is so stunned that she dissolves into a puddle of her own self righteous, pitying tears - a bit like the Witch in the Wizard of Oz.
Originally Posted by sohvimus:
“Well, there was another thing that happened at the very end of the final episode of series 15 of Casualty, Duffy's husband was killed by Holly's stalker Tom. Everyone was led to believe that the funeral had been some time ago by the time series 16 started.
As for the previous discussion on scrubs, I don't know if we've ever seen Mr T in scrubs at all...”
“Well, there was another thing that happened at the very end of the final episode of series 15 of Casualty, Duffy's husband was killed by Holly's stalker Tom. Everyone was led to believe that the funeral had been some time ago by the time series 16 started.
As for the previous discussion on scrubs, I don't know if we've ever seen Mr T in scrubs at all...”
Wasn't he in that storyline where Chantelle stood up for the brain-dead pregnant lady's wishes?? If it was him then he must have been in scrubs because I'm sure we saw the baby being delivered - will try and check and get back to you.
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“I don't think that we have seen Mr T in Scrubs. Owen used to wear pale blue ones (who was obviously the Obs and Gynae Consultant before) but that was back before they changed the colours to be different on each ward - red for Kellar, dark blue for Darwin, light blue for AAU etc. You'd think that black would be rather a depressing shade for women going in for C sections though wouldn't you - of all the specialities, the patient is more likely to be awake in theatre for Obs and Gyane I would think - maybe they don't want them to be able to see the blood - like black towels in hairdressers ....because of the hair dye their, not blood.
I know, whilst I will miss Chrissie in an odd way (certainly miss moaning about her), I do think that it is time. They are bound not to kill her off though if they did, I have a great idea how to do it. Jac has problems later on in the pregnancy (or the baby soon after birth), Chrissie starts up with the 'my child died with that horrible half smile of hers, rather than humouring her like everyone else does, Jac turns round, tells her to shut the frak up, that she is not the only woman on the planet to have lost a child, she is not the Worlds authority on maternal grief and loss and Chrissie is so stunned that she dissolves into a puddle of her own self righteous, pitying tears - a bit like the Witch in the Wizard of Oz.”
“I don't think that we have seen Mr T in Scrubs. Owen used to wear pale blue ones (who was obviously the Obs and Gynae Consultant before) but that was back before they changed the colours to be different on each ward - red for Kellar, dark blue for Darwin, light blue for AAU etc. You'd think that black would be rather a depressing shade for women going in for C sections though wouldn't you - of all the specialities, the patient is more likely to be awake in theatre for Obs and Gyane I would think - maybe they don't want them to be able to see the blood - like black towels in hairdressers ....because of the hair dye their, not blood.
I know, whilst I will miss Chrissie in an odd way (certainly miss moaning about her), I do think that it is time. They are bound not to kill her off though if they did, I have a great idea how to do it. Jac has problems later on in the pregnancy (or the baby soon after birth), Chrissie starts up with the 'my child died with that horrible half smile of hers, rather than humouring her like everyone else does, Jac turns round, tells her to shut the frak up, that she is not the only woman on the planet to have lost a child, she is not the Worlds authority on maternal grief and loss and Chrissie is so stunned that she dissolves into a puddle of her own self righteous, pitying tears - a bit like the Witch in the Wizard of Oz.”
BIB -
Or she could be stabbed to death by an outraged husband of a patient who she has accused falsely, for the zillioneth time, of being a wife beater....
I'd personally love to see a cat fight between her and Helen (with Helen winning, of course!) before she swans off into the sunset with her (snooty) nose held high.....
I know some people might think that I am evil in mocking her grief for her dead child - I hasten to add I would never do that in real life and I didn't with Chrissie until this last couple of weeks when she seems to have started using it as an excuse to be as horrible to others as she likes, knowing they won't answer her back because it Is such a hideous thing to have gone through.
I think this is one of the reasons that I prefer Jac to Chrissie. She doesn't use her past as an excuse for bad behaviour. We as viewers know that it has contributed to her psychology but can you ever, once, think of a time that she has turned on the tears, said something like it isn't my fault I can't interact with other people, my mum never loved me to get sympathy from someone like Elliot when she has ballsed up because I can't. She owns any mistakes she makes (except horribly and noteably for the INR thing)and takes flak and abuse for them on the chin.
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“I think this is one of the reasons that I prefer Jac to Chrissie. She doesn't use her past as an excuse for bad behaviour. We as viewers know that it has contributed to her psychology but can you ever, once, think of a time that she has turned on the tears, said something like it isn't my fault I can't interact with other people, my mum never loved me to get sympathy from someone like Elliot when she has ballsed up because I can't. She owns any mistakes she makes (except horribly and noteably for the INR thing)and takes flak and abuse for them on the chin.”
“I think this is one of the reasons that I prefer Jac to Chrissie. She doesn't use her past as an excuse for bad behaviour. We as viewers know that it has contributed to her psychology but can you ever, once, think of a time that she has turned on the tears, said something like it isn't my fault I can't interact with other people, my mum never loved me to get sympathy from someone like Elliot when she has ballsed up because I can't. She owns any mistakes she makes (except horribly and noteably for the INR thing)and takes flak and abuse for them on the chin.”
I totally agree, kitkat. Jac never blames her past for her mistakes or uses the horrible things that happened to her (her abandonment by her mother, her care home trauma) to try to excuse any bad behaviour. Chrissie is a master at this. Yed, losing Amanda was awful and I would not wish such a thing on her, but she is ressurecting that tragedy now to excuse her frankly disgusting treatment of Sasha and Rachel. I would have some sympathy for her if she had not picked up Michael at the first available opportunity and flirted like mad with him INSTEAD of caring for the son she professed to be so devastated about, took out of hospital post op instead of having him under observation and is now carting off on a long haul flight to Australia when 1) he could have a complication during the flight and 2) her seriously ill step daughter is not out of the woods yet. Where is the caring???? No, she oly cares about herself. Jac, on the other hand, DOES care about people and indeed (as with Joseph) puts their needs before her own.
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“She owns any mistakes she makes (except horribly and noteably for the INR thing)and takes flak and abuse for them on the chin.”
“She owns any mistakes she makes (except horribly and noteably for the INR thing)and takes flak and abuse for them on the chin.”
Is this about the case where she thought it was a PE and then it turned out to be a tumour of some kind (or something like that)?
Her first mistake (though I blame the writers) was to put the patient on warfarin to start with. People who have had a PE will eventually be put on warfarin, but intially they are put on IV heparin. Plus with warfarin, it takes 3 days (warfarin's half-life is 3 days) to find out whether you have the right dose or not (warfarin dosage is patient-dependent, there is no standard dose that works for everyone, every person processes warfarin differently, people who are very difficult to get "in range" can have a genetic testing done to see whether the problem lies).
Plus, she would've found out the patient's D-Dimer result, as a result in normal range would've helped her to rule PE out.
Originally Posted by sohvimus:
“Is this about the case where she thought it was a PE and then it turned out to be a tumour of some kind (or something like that)?
Her first mistake (though I blame the writers) was to put the patient on warfarin to start with. People who have had a PE will eventually be put on warfarin, but intially they are put on IV heparin. Plus with warfarin, it takes 3 days (warfarin's half-life is 3 days) to find out whether you have the right dose or not (warfarin dosage is patient-dependent, there is no standard dose that works for everyone, every person processes warfarin differently, people who are very difficult to get "in range" can have a genetic testing done to see whether the problem lies).
Plus, she would've found out the patient's D-Dimer result, as a result in normal range would've helped her to rule PE out.”
“Is this about the case where she thought it was a PE and then it turned out to be a tumour of some kind (or something like that)?
Her first mistake (though I blame the writers) was to put the patient on warfarin to start with. People who have had a PE will eventually be put on warfarin, but intially they are put on IV heparin. Plus with warfarin, it takes 3 days (warfarin's half-life is 3 days) to find out whether you have the right dose or not (warfarin dosage is patient-dependent, there is no standard dose that works for everyone, every person processes warfarin differently, people who are very difficult to get "in range" can have a genetic testing done to see whether the problem lies).
Plus, she would've found out the patient's D-Dimer result, as a result in normal range would've helped her to rule PE out.
”
No that was the horse racing woman that Jonny took a shine to and was I believe she said one of the only misdiagnoses she'd made in 10 years
The INR thing was a while ago now when Jac was on Keller and Chrissie had just come back from maternity leave. Chrissie told Jac she ought to check a patient's results but she didn't which meant there were complications in surgery (?? they couldn't stop the bleeding) which meant that they had to leave the patient with his wound unstitched, so he woke up with his guts on show, and unsurprisingly decided to sue. Jac then changed the INR result and said that Chrissie must have written it down wrongly and then used something Sacha had told her about Chrissie taking (I think) caffeine pills to get through her shifts as a possible explanation for why she (Chrissie) might have made that mistake. I can't remember what happened to Chrissie as a result (although there was something very dodgy about the panel that investigated it - Mark "Jesus" Williams was on it for a start) but I'm fairly sure it did have some sort of consequence.
That is exactly the case. It was supposed to be a faily routine case but theb Patient hadn't stopped taking Wolferine when he'd been told to so his blood didn't clot properly. The pre op INR was 4, which Jac didn't look at and after the op, she changed it to 1.4 claiming that someone must have written it down wrong and as Chrissie was the Nurse in charge,... Jac did behave badly but it was a faults all round thing, Chrissie was tired and taking Prozac (which got her the blame when Jac mentioned it at the Enquiry) and Jac had been pulling trevle shifts trying to cover for Ric's Cancer leave so also tired. Jac should have looked at the results but arguably Chrissie should have made sure she had. And yesn the panel was very biased as it was made up of 3, one of whom was Chrissie's dad so of course on her side. Chrissie just got a 6 week period of supervision as a punishment and the Trust settled out of Court. December 2010 if you wish to review it, starting Queens Gambit.
Originally Posted by wiggles247:
“Wasn't he in that storyline where Chantelle stood up for the brain-dead pregnant lady's wishes?? If it was him then he must have been in scrubs because I'm sure we saw the baby being delivered - will try and check and get back to you.”
“Wasn't he in that storyline where Chantelle stood up for the brain-dead pregnant lady's wishes?? If it was him then he must have been in scrubs because I'm sure we saw the baby being delivered - will try and check and get back to you.”
Via the magic of imdb and you tube (whatever did we do before t'internet?) have done this and can now exclusively reveal that the lovely Mr T. has previously been seen sporting scrubs of both pale (sky) AND a (sort of) royal (like the ones Jonny wears, but that was possibly because he was on Darwin when he was called into baby delivery mode) BLUE. So the ninja scrubs are obviously a new innovation - maybe he's trying to impress Mo by looking all sleek and milk tray man-ish
ETA. Also discovered that Ben Hull had appeared on Holby before playing a relative in the episode where Annalese went into labour and the dreaded(?dreadful) Vanessa made her first appearance
Last edited by wiggles247 : 30-06-2013 at 22:47
Yes indeed, it's the last episode of season 11 I think, straight after Chrissie's miscarriage and Mark tries to set her up with Hull's character but he's gay. I watched it just the other day.
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“I know some people might think that I am evil in mocking her grief for her dead child - I hasten to add I would never do that in real life and I didn't with Chrissie until this last couple of weeks when she seems to have started using it as an excuse to be as horrible to others as she likes, knowing they won't answer her back because it Is such a hideous thing to have gone through.”
“I know some people might think that I am evil in mocking her grief for her dead child - I hasten to add I would never do that in real life and I didn't with Chrissie until this last couple of weeks when she seems to have started using it as an excuse to be as horrible to others as she likes, knowing they won't answer her back because it Is such a hideous thing to have gone through.”
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“I think this is one of the reasons that I prefer Jac to Chrissie. She doesn't use her past as an excuse for bad behaviour. We as viewers know that it has contributed to her psychology but can you ever, once, think of a time that she has turned on the tears, said something like it isn't my fault I can't interact with other people, my mum never loved me to get sympathy from someone like Elliot when she has ballsed up because I can't. She owns any mistakes she makes (except horribly and noteably for the INR thing)and takes flak and abuse for them on the chin.”
“I think this is one of the reasons that I prefer Jac to Chrissie. She doesn't use her past as an excuse for bad behaviour. We as viewers know that it has contributed to her psychology but can you ever, once, think of a time that she has turned on the tears, said something like it isn't my fault I can't interact with other people, my mum never loved me to get sympathy from someone like Elliot when she has ballsed up because I can't. She owns any mistakes she makes (except horribly and noteably for the INR thing)and takes flak and abuse for them on the chin.”
Originally Posted by Collins1965:
“I totally agree, kitkat. Jac never blames her past for her mistakes or uses the horrible things that happened to her (her abandonment by her mother, her care home trauma) to try to excuse any bad behaviour. Chrissie is a master at this. Yed, losing Amanda was awful and I would not wish such a thing on her, but she is ressurecting that tragedy now to excuse her frankly disgusting treatment of Sasha and Rachel. I would have some sympathy for her if she had not picked up Michael at the first available opportunity and flirted like mad with him INSTEAD of caring for the son she professed to be so devastated about, took out of hospital post op instead of having him under observation and is now carting off on a long haul flight to Australia when 1) he could have a complication during the flight and 2) her seriously ill step daughter is not out of the woods yet. Where is the caring???? No, she oly cares about herself. Jac, on the other hand, DOES care about people and indeed (as with Joseph) puts their needs before her own.”
“I totally agree, kitkat. Jac never blames her past for her mistakes or uses the horrible things that happened to her (her abandonment by her mother, her care home trauma) to try to excuse any bad behaviour. Chrissie is a master at this. Yed, losing Amanda was awful and I would not wish such a thing on her, but she is ressurecting that tragedy now to excuse her frankly disgusting treatment of Sasha and Rachel. I would have some sympathy for her if she had not picked up Michael at the first available opportunity and flirted like mad with him INSTEAD of caring for the son she professed to be so devastated about, took out of hospital post op instead of having him under observation and is now carting off on a long haul flight to Australia when 1) he could have a complication during the flight and 2) her seriously ill step daughter is not out of the woods yet. Where is the caring???? No, she oly cares about herself. Jac, on the other hand, DOES care about people and indeed (as with Joseph) puts their needs before her own.”
I agree with you both about Jac not using her past as an excuse, I can't think of an example either. In fact as she seems so reticent to talk about it you could say that she's doing the opposite of this (whatever that would be called - I'm sure there's a proper psychological term [its bound to be a psychodynamic defence mechanism] but I can't think what it would be at the mo), which actually I sometimes wish she wouldn't. Not that I'd want her to use it to explain away her misdeeds but think it would definitely help other people to understand her better if she was more open in other circumstances (although I suspect the prospect of that would be terrifying for her too)
With regard to Chrissie I'm inclined to be a bit more lenient. Whilst I agree that her behaviour after discharging Daniel was pretty poor and that she obviously shouldn't be taking him to Australia at this stage in his and (hopefully!) Rachel's recovery I'm not sure I'd agree with you about Amanda. I think this is partly because I've never been so outraged about how she has behaved in this storyline as some others and partly because to me she didn't seem to be using Amanda's death as an excuse to hurt/be nasty to other people simply to explain how and why she was feeling the way she was (although sometimes I will admit expressing it in not the best way possible).
That said thought your idea of how Chrissie may leave was a classic kitkat - maybe the could incorporate it into a pregnancy-fuelled dream sequence for Jac - and could also see yours happening too Collins, although can't actually see them going with either of those ideas. I'm coming more and more to agree with kitkat that Michael will be involved and not in a good way
especially considering what we know about Hari.ETA: And I don't think you're evil kitkat!!!
Originally Posted by sohvimus:
“Apparently
”
“Apparently
Spoiler
I wonder what makes him think that??? Am presuming there IS a reason (or that he thinks there is) and that he isn't just worrying over nothing.
Spoiler
Am also now very curious as to what the Casualty spoiler was?? I only watch it every now and again these days but you've got me intrigued!!!
Originally Posted by wiggles247:
“Oooh just twigged that that's
”
“Oooh just twigged that that's
Spoiler
I think that is very likely.
Spoiler
Originally Posted by wiggles247:
“I agree with you both about Jac not using her past as an excuse, I can't think of an example either. In fact as she seems so reticent to talk about it you could say that she's doing the opposite of this (whatever that would be called - I'm sure there's a proper psychological term [its bound to be a psychodynamic defence mechanism] but I can't think what it would be at the mo), which actually I sometimes wish she wouldn't. Not that I'd want her to use it to explain away her misdeeds but think it would definitely help other people to understand her better if she was more open in other circumstances (although I suspect the prospect of that would be terrifying for her too)
With regard to Chrissie I'm inclined to be a bit more lenient. Whilst I agree that her behaviour after discharging Daniel was pretty poor and that she obviously shouldn't be taking him to Australia at this stage in his and (hopefully!) Rachel's recovery I'm not sure I'd agree with you about Amanda. I think this is partly because I've never been so outraged about how she has behaved in this storyline as some others and partly because to me she didn't seem to be using Amanda's death as an excuse to hurt/be nasty to other people simply to explain how and why she was feeling the way she was (although sometimes I will admit expressing it in not the best way possible).
That said thought your idea of how Chrissie may leave was a classic kitkat - maybe the could incorporate it into a pregnancy-fuelled dream sequence for Jac - and could also see yours happening too Collins, although can't actually see them going with either of those ideas. I'm coming more and more to agree with kitkat that Michael will be involved and not in a good way especially considering what we know about Hari.
ETA: And I don't think you're evil kitkat!!!”
“I agree with you both about Jac not using her past as an excuse, I can't think of an example either. In fact as she seems so reticent to talk about it you could say that she's doing the opposite of this (whatever that would be called - I'm sure there's a proper psychological term [its bound to be a psychodynamic defence mechanism] but I can't think what it would be at the mo), which actually I sometimes wish she wouldn't. Not that I'd want her to use it to explain away her misdeeds but think it would definitely help other people to understand her better if she was more open in other circumstances (although I suspect the prospect of that would be terrifying for her too)
With regard to Chrissie I'm inclined to be a bit more lenient. Whilst I agree that her behaviour after discharging Daniel was pretty poor and that she obviously shouldn't be taking him to Australia at this stage in his and (hopefully!) Rachel's recovery I'm not sure I'd agree with you about Amanda. I think this is partly because I've never been so outraged about how she has behaved in this storyline as some others and partly because to me she didn't seem to be using Amanda's death as an excuse to hurt/be nasty to other people simply to explain how and why she was feeling the way she was (although sometimes I will admit expressing it in not the best way possible).
That said thought your idea of how Chrissie may leave was a classic kitkat - maybe the could incorporate it into a pregnancy-fuelled dream sequence for Jac - and could also see yours happening too Collins, although can't actually see them going with either of those ideas. I'm coming more and more to agree with kitkat that Michael will be involved and not in a good way
especially considering what we know about Hari.ETA: And I don't think you're evil kitkat!!!”
Thank you.
I think she definitely does the opposite - it is like the defence mechanism is so ingrained, she is so determind not to give anybody any insight into her psyche (therefore giving them power to hurt her) that she will take any manner of other abuse to prevent it. It is interesting that the few times she has ever talked about it, it has been very matter of fact and you get the impression that the other person engaged in the conversation already knows the basic story like her casually mentioning being in foster homes to Lord Byrne in 'Paranoid Android' and the argument with Joseph in 'Bad Reputation' and when her mother came back in 'Bette Davis Eyes'. Now of course it makes sense that she would have had to have told Joseph when they were dating and he would have passed the pertinent facts onto his Mum and Dad if only to avoid the awkward 'and what do your parents do Jacqueline, where are they today' conversation when she spent Christmas with them but it would be nice to see her explain it properly for the first time to someone. All that has come close was Michael and Sacha in 2010.
One time I was screaming at the tele for Jac to say something about her motives was soon after Sahira turned up and Elliot reprimanded her for proceeding with a risky operation behind his back. He asked her why she did it and nearly crying she just replied 'you know why'. Now maybe I was reading too much into it but I thought that meant that so soon after Joseph leaving and her putting all her eggs into one basket, she couldn't afford to lose her career as well as the life he had offered and I just wanted her to make sure that Elliot got that. That it was all she now had.
Originally Posted by wiggles247:
“Am also now very curious as to what the Casualty spoiler was?? I only watch it every now and again these days but you've got me intrigued!!!”
“Am also now very curious as to what the Casualty spoiler was?? I only watch it every now and again these days but you've got me intrigued!!!”
Spoiler
]Ooh I lost my post somehow
Re Casualty that is the one I assumed you meant. Unbelievable - I mean
Re Casualty that is the one I assumed you meant. Unbelievable - I mean
Spoiler
51 of 144
