Yes, there is something about Jac taking all the shit and not complaining about it. She never really stands up to Elliot when he berates her, and she let Shaira and now Mo get away with murder. I want her to stand up to them all and tell them how bloody lucky they are to be in the presence of her brilliance!! Hanssen (how I love him!) was fantastic when he came and told her how well she had done, and you could see how much it meant to her. I loved the bit with Jonny as well when he told her how proud of her he was before it all went pear shaped. It's as if she feels that because she "done wrong" in the past she doesn't have the right to complain about being treated unfairly now, even when she clearly does not deserve it.

And as for Joseph, he really does deserve a really nasty email or phone call pulling him up on his insensitive uncaring behaviour. She owes him nothing now.

It might do him so good to be told that he only has his son because of her - twice. First because she talked Faye into the C section (which he knows) and secondly because she stopped Faye absconding to France with him which he doesn't.

I always thought she shot herself in the foot by stopping Faye taking Harry to France. Joseph would have accepted it eventually and then she would have had him all to herself. Shows how much she loved him that she put HIS needs first.

Of course I know this would not have happened seeing as it was tied in to Luke Robert's leaving story but you can see where I'm coming from on this.....

I don't think she could have done that, both because she loved Joseph so much and also because I don't think she'd have trusted Faye to be a good and devoted mother and one thing Jac can't stand is bad parenting. Let's face it, I know he had special care requirements but she not only dumped Archie in a home, she moved several thousand miles away so she couldn't visit and then denied even having a kid when she got back to England. I remember her saying that she didn't want people to think she was ashamed of him. Here's a hint, stop hiding him away and denying his very existance like you're ashamed of him

Also, I've always thought that there was some guilt driving it - almost like I cost you your father (both relationship and maybe even life if she thinks stress did play a part in his death), I'll make damned sure you keep your son even if it hurts me.

Finally I don't think he would have just accepted it, I think he'd have chased after her to get the baby back - cases like that where one parent takes another out of the country can take years to resolve.

I do think she should have disregarded her promise and told Joseph what Faye was planning on doing - it's have been easy enough to prove with the copy of the ticket and the transfer back and forth of that £20k from his account.

They are 2 very good points - about her not trusting Faye to be a good mother and also to make up to Joseph for his estrangement from Lord Byrne.

I always thought Faye was a terrible mother to Archie, denying his existance as she did. And she rejected Harry when he was first born, so wrapped up was she in her misery over Linden, who had stopped loving her anyway.

And Jac was so supportive of Joseph in his role as dad to Harry. I loved the gentle teasing about him being a genius and learning the mandolin etc. So, no real surprise that she stopped Faye fleeing with him even though it meant putting herself in second place to Harry in Joseph's affections.

I do see a pattern here with Jac, its almost self flagellation to attone for past sins...........she has a very harsh inner critic going on, probably stemming from her insecure attachment to her mother.

Faye's attitude to parenthood was one of the many things I despised about her. I think we were meant to feel sorry for her and see her as a victim because her child was disabled and she was scared to have another one so it was costing her true love with joseph as he wanted one. But, but, you don't just dump your child in a home, move to another Continent (no matter how good the money is) and never mention them if you really love them. I don't see how you could. Then, for someone so sure they couldn't fall pregnant, she has 2 scares and doesn't tell the men she dates until after they've fallen in love with her. Sorry, maybe not first date but I think something like that should be disclosed pretty early on in a courtship. Then finally, I know she was suffering a breakdown but she risks her unborn childs life, then tries to abduct him then finally buggers off to another country. Couldn't she have let joseph have custody if she couldn't cope but stay close to visit?

Just rubbish.

I agree that she is her own harshest critic and constantly tries to atone. Down to her low self esteem no doubt. That's why it is so upsetting when people are horrible to her, especially Elliot who should know better - she's already doing it to herself. That's why she does risky procedures I think, not for personal glory but because she constantly is trying to prove she is worth something to herself.

BIU: Didn't twig to this at the time but agree this is also something new for her and a real development....

BIB: Well I know when she comes back I'll definitely be lr ooking out for any 'bump behaviours' (BB's).
Things like:
having a 'dentist appointment' mentioned (which I'm desperately hoping she won't attend, will come back early from, will say she's cancelled)
cutting down her caffeine intake (and I can already hear her explanation to let her keep the pregnancy secret = 'haven't you heard - caffeine's for wimps')
eating slightly strange things (I don't think she'd let herself be seen eating anything too weird, like coal or chocolate-covered gherkins no matter how strong her cravings were!) - or actually eating at all come to think of it
coming to work later than normal, people not being able to find her on the ward and eating mints/chewing gum

and so on.......

I agree with you gals that Jac pushes herself hard medically and professionally does all this cutting edge surgery to try and get absolution for some wrong deeds that she has done in the past and to try and show people that she is not the detached, difficult and unapproachable person as she is personified to be. I know its all down to that horrible mother of hers who has damaged her so much.

I really feel that Jac should seek professional help the way Luc was forced to do before he self destruct. Perhaps Sacha can help her or Jonny. Not sure how it will fit a storyline though. I can see Jac softening even more if she becomes a mother.

I think that jac would be the most protective, supportive Mother ever.

Definitely, she would be a great mother imo. She nevers want to be like her mother. Abit in the similar vein like Eddi who didn't want to be like her mother.

Just one question, what happened to Jac's grandfather, did he ever keep in contact with Jac?

He hasn't been mentioned since the episode he appeared in. Whilst he claimed not to have known she was in care as a teenager, he did know that paula came back and tracked her down to get a kidney and con her so I imagine Jac would have rejected any effort he made to keep in touch. Besides, if she wouldn't speak to her sister who had done nothing then I doubt he'd get much of a look in.

Jac would be a great mother

Agreed!!! (If she gives herself the opportunity to find out.)



Reposted these from earlier in the thread because had another thought and didn't think it would make much sense on its own.



BIB: And am now wondering if, when Jac comes back from Japan (and maybe even whilst she's away) Jonny will be on a mission to prove that he's over her (like he was when she finished it the 1st time) = going out a lot, seeing different girls all the time (and letting Jac know this, probably with Mo's help!) which might convince her (or at the very least make her think) that he wouldn't really care/be interested/want to be involved.

Lets hope Mary Claire stays away from Darwin while Jac is away!!!

I was thinking exactly the same thing about his getting involved with other people (after all his original biog said he wanted to settle down with the right woman was happy to play the field until then - something we've seen little of) and marie-claire was the only cast member I xould think of that's the right age and free.

Still I"d rather it was casual than do another Faye and have him get seriously involved with someone straight away. Her saying the baby was conceived in Japan if he is still off with her does seem more likely now.

I was actually thinking of casual mentions, between Mo and Jonny, of dates in front of Jac (with random people) but hadn't considered Marie-Claire, which would potentially make more sense. As there'd be more scope for Jac to see things happening between them.
I don't think it will be a serious thing though (a la Faye), because apart from anything else, don't think Jonny would be up for anything like that (broken-hearted as he obviously is!!!)

Mo will be in her element now with no Jac to get in her way, either professionally or personally speaking. Her quest to become the new Queen of Darwin begins here!

Hadn't occured to me till I read Clover's review
http://pauseliveaction.wordpress.com...ry/holby-city/

how significant what Jac said to Caitlin in ITU was, as think now that really gives a sense of how she views Jonny - as someone who will care for and help her.


Also, was just thinking that with all this antipathy now being aimed at Joseph the HC scriptwriters really should be congratulated as they seem to have succeeded in their plan to have us all move on from Jac/Joseph as a HEA couple to Jac/Jonny as perhaps being a better pairing. And who would have known all it'd take was an envelope filled with sparkles and an injudiciously posted wedding invite to achieve such a feat? They really are good aren't they?!!!

Wiggles, I totally agree about the great character assassination the writers did on Joseph in order for us to get behind her and Jonny as a couple. It just shows what a great character Joseph was for them to have to go that far!!

As they have written it, yes, it looks like Jac and Jonny are the better match. In my heart, however, I will forever love Joseph as he was portrayed ON SCREEN and believe that he would have been perfect for Jac if only he had gotten a GP job close to Holby where he could have had the best of both worlds - less working hours giving him more time to be with Harry, and also the chance of a real relationship with Jac, on equal terms, that could have worked out perfectly for them both.

I totally agree with Collins. They have done an excellent character assination (having a wobble about spelling) job on joseph, cleverly by recalling some of the more high handed, selfish things he did on screen including fairly minor stuff like booking holidays for his hobby without asking Jac what she'd want to do to the final moving several hundred miles without consultation debacle. These were things I commented on at the time, Joseph was far from perfect which is what made him so interesting and also so well matched with the equally unperfect and sometimes self serving (if not selfish) Jac. I'm sure that they could bring us back round to liking him if they ever reintroduced him with good writing and most inportantly Robert's sympathetic performance and amazing chemistry with Rosie.

It does go to show hoe strong the love was though that they have felt the need to do this 2 years after his leaving. That is unprecedented in HC or Casualty to move a remaining character on.

I've liked Jonny from his first episode and always said that whilst remaining convinced that Joseph is the 'one' for Jac, she couldn't stay in limbo forever and Jonny was a good replacement. I like him (and their relationship) more and more each week and think he is the best person for her now so am firmly Team Janny. I'd be interested to see what happened if Joseph came back but I'd want him contrite, be willing to make sacrifices and need to realise what stiff competition he has, not just have her come running which I would have thought would happen. I'd want her conflicted, not just discount Jonny, esp if they have got a family and she loves him as much. As joseph once said to her about Faye, it's not the same kind of love but it is love. He of course was kidding hinself with Faye but I'd like Jacv not to be with Jonny.

Sorry that was really long.

kitkat compared to some of my ramblings your last post was an excellent example of brevity and succinctness, and anyway sometimes it just takes longer to say what you need to!!


Would agree with you and Collins that the scriptwriters have gone to a lot of effort to make people really warm to Jac and Jonny as a couple, and that that does say something about the strength of her connection with Joseph (and how TPTB viewed that). I've also liked the Jac/Jonny relationship from the peoples skill course onwards (although re-watched the ep where Mo and Jonny were first introduced to the rest of Darwin recently and thought how different he was then to now) and as you know have begun to think that Jonny might be a better option for a HEA for Jac, because of my major misgivings about how things would turn out for Jac and Joseph long-term. But also would (probably) still be happy for Jac to go off with Joseph if/when Rosie decides to leave AS LONG AS this didn't involve her hurting Jonny - assuming they get back together at some point (which is an important caveat for me now, and not something that would have been as important to me before last week's episode)


Also, on the subject of Rosie's eventual leaving storyline thought I'd share something JY posted on Twitter. Someone had tweeted him to thank him for confirming that Rosie wasn't leaving, to which he replied

so think we can safely assume that if/when Rosie leaves she'll have some kind of 'event exit'

Yay! Whenever the day comes it looks like she will have a corker of an exit storyline

I've always had a horrible feeling that when the time comes they might kill her off - she's such a big cracter. I hope I'm wrong

Yes, that is one of my niggling fears too, although also think there is the distinct possibility that she might get a really cracking HEA too, as I think that because she is such a big (and popular) character they might not want to risk any potential backlash that killing her off might cause (I live in hope that this is the case anyway!!)