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Nokia shares up 10% on better than expected Q4 results.


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Old 10-01-2013, 15:09
flagpole
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(Reuters) - Finland's Nokia said its fourth-quarter results were better than expected and that the mobile phone business achieved underlying profitability, a rare spot of good news for the struggling handset maker.

Quarterly net sales in devices and services was about 3.9 billion euros. It sold a total of 86.3 million devices. Smartphones accounted for 6.6 million units, of which 4.4 million were Windows-based Lumia handsets, the company said.

Nokia shares surged 16 percent to 3.48 euros by 1315 GMT.

($1 = 0.7667 euros)

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Old 10-01-2013, 16:39
JulesHolland
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They've been on a downward spiral for a while now.

It's all to do with the success of the Lumia range, namely the 900 and 920, specially the 920 on AT&T in the US.

Both Nokia and Windows have worked really hard on getting that phone to a place where consumers wanted it to be. It's just as important for Windows as well because they need their mobile OS to catch up with Google's if they want to win the information battle.
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Old 10-01-2013, 16:48
mogzyboy
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The Lumia 920 is a great handset, and Windows Phone 8 is a refreshing OS, especially when the others (especially iOS) have looked the same for years. Must say that, as simple as it is to use, I'm really bored of iOS now.

I like the fact that WP8 is really bright and colourful.
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Old 10-01-2013, 16:51
sonicshadow
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Bought my first Nokia in August, the 808 Pureview and my girlfriend got a lumia 800 through the year too. They're seems to be more people about with them now.
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Old 10-01-2013, 17:40
flagpole
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They've been doing very well recently. They signed a deal to flog the 920 through China Mobile, to their 700m subscribers.


Unfortunately their office in India was raided by the tax authorities which hit them hard.

But that they are profitable for the first time in yonks is big news.
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Old 10-01-2013, 21:36
Step666
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Quarterly net sales in devices and services was about 3.9 billion euros. It sold a total of 86.3 million devices. Smartphones accounted for 6.6 million units, of which 4.4 million were Windows-based Lumia handsets, the company said.
Are they worldwide sales?
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Old 10-01-2013, 22:04
flagpole
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I should say so.
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Old 10-01-2013, 22:26
swordman
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The problem is WM remains a disappointment and everything Nokia does means little unless it turns around or they jump ship which is unlikely. i think they have only just gone past synbian sales.
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Old 10-01-2013, 22:57
flagpole
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The problem is WM remains a disappointment and everything Nokia does means little unless it turns around or they jump ship which is unlikely. i think they have only just gone past synbian sales.
In what sense does 'WM remain a disappointment'?
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Old 10-01-2013, 23:24
swordman
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In what sense does 'WM remain a disappointment'?
In the sense it is not selling as hoped
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Old 10-01-2013, 23:37
flagpole
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In the sense it is not selling as hoped
You read the bit about sales being better than expected? First line of the OP?
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Old 10-01-2013, 23:38
Thine Wonk
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The new metal case Lumia phones look great too.
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Old 10-01-2013, 23:52
flagpole
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The new metal case Lumia phones look great too.
Fo shizzle http://www.phonesreview.co.uk/2013/0...-our-blessing/
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Old 11-01-2013, 00:08
swordman
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You read the bit about sales being better than expected? First line of the OP?
I did indeed largely depends how bad they expected it to be though doesn't it?

I understand their accounts are not due until later in Jan and the figures announced by SE mean they will have underlying profitability as said not actual profit for the company. Given their recent woes it is indeed a spot of good news but still does not alter the fact that their eggs are in the WM basket and 4 million sales is not what would have been expected 2 years ago when they entered into this deal with MS.

It will be interesting to see what the sales break down to as in how many w8 and w7 phones this represents given the slash in prices that took place on the older handsets.

Still better than a poke in the eye I suppose.
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:10
clonmult
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You read the bit about sales being better than expected? First line of the OP?
Compared to their previous sales, they're quite pathetic. Maybe they just set very low targets.

The N8 sold 4 million in its first quarter. These reported figures show its taken all of their Lumia range to better one of their previous models.

Its unfair to compare, but the iPhone 5 sold as many on its launch weekend as Nokia have sold Lumias in one quarter.

Big thing for me is that they sold half as many Symbian phones as they did WP devices - despite an almost complete lack of marketing.

WP has, without a doubt, so far been a complete disaster for Nokia.
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Old 11-01-2013, 12:51
finbaar
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Lets hope Nokia is turning the corner as it would be a shame for the only European smartphone manufacturer to die.

I was excited to try WP8 when it was launched and had hoped to get one as a second handset later this year. The 8X is a lovely bit of kit. But no, after trying it I won't be getting one. There are a few issues (slow transitions because of those flying window things - just open the bloody app and terrible notification handling are two) but the killer is the lack of Google sevices. No Google, no go for me.
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Old 11-01-2013, 14:38
sonicshadow
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Compared to their previous sales, they're quite pathetic. Maybe they just set very low targets.

The N8 sold 4 million in its first quarter. These reported figures show its taken all of their Lumia range to better one of their previous models.

Its unfair to compare, but the iPhone 5 sold as many on its launch weekend as Nokia have sold Lumias in one quarter.

Big thing for me is that they sold half as many Symbian phones as they did WP devices - despite an almost complete lack of marketing.

WP has, without a doubt, so far been a complete disaster for Nokia.
The N8 had, at the time, the best camera ever on a phone, and I think that's the difference. It had something which set it aside from the competition, the current Lumias, with the possible exception of the 920, don't really do that.
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Old 11-01-2013, 15:06
flagpole
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Compared to their previous sales, they're quite pathetic. Maybe they just set very low targets.

The N8 sold 4 million in its first quarter. These reported figures show its taken all of their Lumia range to better one of their previous models.

Its unfair to compare, but the iPhone 5 sold as many on its launch weekend as Nokia have sold Lumias in one quarter.

Big thing for me is that they sold half as many Symbian phones as they did WP devices - despite an almost complete lack of marketing.

WP has, without a doubt, so far been a complete disaster for Nokia.
i find it very odd when people post dubious thing with the confidence to use phrases like 'without doubt'

nokia was basically profitable in Q4 for the fist time in god knows how long.

i don't know how you can say WP has been a disaster. MS paid them a billion dollars which has enabled them to bring viable phones to market for the first time. what exactly would you have done? oh wise one.

and it's not what nokia expected it refers to when they say better than expected.
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Old 11-01-2013, 15:30
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Nokia could have embraced Android AND Windows Phone, like Samsung and HTC have. They could have continued production of Symbian, as well as producing phones with the other two OS's.

Why just Windows Phone?
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Old 11-01-2013, 15:54
goldenface
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Good luck to Nokia, I hope they can recover. It's not good for anyone to have just two main phone sellers, choice is good.
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Old 11-01-2013, 16:00
flagpole
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Nokia could have embraced Android AND Windows Phone, like Samsung and HTC have. They could have continued production of Symbian, as well as producing phones with the other two OS's.

Why just Windows Phone?
I believe it was part of the deal that saw Microsoft pay them the billion dollars. The CEO said the other day that he didn't rule out making android phones at some point. With symbian I think they just couldn't afford to keep developing it when they saw windows as more likely to me the competitive product.
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Old 11-01-2013, 16:13
MGS4SnakeRulez
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The Lumia 920 is a great handset, and Windows Phone 8 is a refreshing OS, especially when the others (especially iOS) have looked the same for years. Must say that, as simple as it is to use, I'm really bored of iOS now.

I like the fact that WP8 is really bright and colourful.
Except they haven't, ICS looks completely different to GB and you can install other launchers and completely customise it's look with Android.
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Old 11-01-2013, 16:18
IvanIV
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Android does not mean an automatic success, nowadays it's Samsung that's doing very well, but even HTC is beginning to struggle.

As for Nokia, they are making profit now, so they must be doing something right. MS paid them to use WP, they would have no money to invest in a development of Android or Symbian. Maybe if they recover more.
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Old 11-01-2013, 16:38
clonmult
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i find it very odd when people post dubious thing with the confidence to use phrases like 'without doubt'

nokia was basically profitable in Q4 for the fist time in god knows how long.

i don't know how you can say WP has been a disaster. MS paid them a billion dollars which has enabled them to bring viable phones to market for the first time. what exactly would you have done? oh wise one.

and it's not what nokia expected it refers to when they say better than expected.
MS gave Nokia 1 billion, and finally parts of Nokia are starting to be profitable (yes, I know, slight gap between the two).

Nokia have sorted out their lower end range, and of the what 80+ million phones sold, 4.4 million were running WP. They sold rougly half as many Symbian devices despite an almost complete and utter lack of marketing on their behalf.

What percentage of their return to profitability is down to WP, and what percentage is down to the rest of their revamped product line?

What would I have done? Sacked most of the management team, who were repsonsible for the sad state of development at Nokia - they definitely had the development and design expertise, it was always held back by management allowing teams to compete against each other, and those with the greatest political clout tended to come through - not those with the best products.

They stupidly delayed the Maemo/MeeGo project by linking with Intel which put it into development hell, and it was the product that was most likely to bring them success.

As it stands they have absolutely no control over their destiny - if MS continue the way they're going, they will be basically using Nokia to promote the WP range while they design their own phones and then finally release them in an attempt to wrench control of the WP market.
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Old 11-01-2013, 16:50
wilt
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MS gave Nokia 1 billion, and finally parts of Nokia are starting to be profitable (yes, I know, slight gap between the two).

Nokia have sorted out their lower end range, and of the what 80+ million phones sold, 4.4 million were running WP. They sold rougly half as many Symbian devices despite an almost complete and utter lack of marketing on their behalf.

What percentage of their return to profitability is down to WP, and what percentage is down to the rest of their revamped product line?

What would I have done? Sacked most of the management team, who were repsonsible for the sad state of development at Nokia - they definitely had the development and design expertise, it was always held back by management allowing teams to compete against each other, and those with the greatest political clout tended to come through - not those with the best products.

They stupidly delayed the Maemo/MeeGo project by linking with Intel which put it into development hell, and it was the product that was most likely to bring them success.

As it stands they have absolutely no control over their destiny - if MS continue the way they're going, they will be basically using Nokia to promote the WP range while they design their own phones and then finally release them in an attempt to wrench control of the WP market.
Why would Meego have brought them success? They would have the same ecosystem problems as WP (if not worse) with the added burden of full software development costs.
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