Nokia shares up 10% on better than expected Q4 results.

flagpole · 10-01-2013, 15:09

(Reuters) - Finland's Nokia said its fourth-quarter results were better than expected and that the mobile phone business achieved underlying profitability, a rare spot of good news for the struggling handset maker.

Quarterly net sales in devices and services was about 3.9 billion euros. It sold a total of 86.3 million devices. Smartphones accounted for 6.6 million units, of which 4.4 million were Windows-based Lumia handsets, the company said.

Nokia shares surged 16 percent to 3.48 euros by 1315 GMT.

($1 = 0.7667 euros)

JulesHolland · 10-01-2013, 16:39

They've been on a downward spiral for a while now.

It's all to do with the success of the Lumia range, namely the 900 and 920, specially the 920 on AT&T in the US.

Both Nokia and Windows have worked really hard on getting that phone to a place where consumers wanted it to be. It's just as important for Windows as well because they need their mobile OS to catch up with Google's if they want to win the information battle.

mogzyboy · 10-01-2013, 16:48

The Lumia 920 is a great handset, and Windows Phone 8 is a refreshing OS, especially when the others (especially iOS) have looked the same for years. Must say that, as simple as it is to use, I'm really bored of iOS now.

I like the fact that WP8 is really bright and colourful.

sonicshadow · 10-01-2013, 16:51

Bought my first Nokia in August, the 808 Pureview and my girlfriend got a lumia 800 through the year too. They're seems to be more people about with them now.

flagpole · 10-01-2013, 17:40

They've been doing very well recently. They signed a deal to flog the 920 through China Mobile, to their 700m subscribers.

Unfortunately their office in India was raided by the tax authorities which hit them hard.

But that they are profitable for the first time in yonks is big news.

Step666 · 10-01-2013, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by flagpole

Quarterly net sales in devices and services was about 3.9 billion euros. It sold a total of 86.3 million devices. Smartphones accounted for 6.6 million units, of which 4.4 million were Windows-based Lumia handsets, the company said.

Are they worldwide sales?

flagpole · 10-01-2013, 22:04

I should say so.

swordman · 10-01-2013, 22:26

The problem is WM remains a disappointment and everything Nokia does means little unless it turns around or they jump ship which is unlikely. i think they have only just gone past synbian sales.

flagpole · 10-01-2013, 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordman

The problem is WM remains a disappointment and everything Nokia does means little unless it turns around or they jump ship which is unlikely. i think they have only just gone past synbian sales.

In what sense does 'WM remain a disappointment'?

swordman · 10-01-2013, 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by flagpole

In what sense does 'WM remain a disappointment'?

In the sense it is not selling as hoped

flagpole · 10-01-2013, 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordman

In the sense it is not selling as hoped

You read the bit about sales being better than expected? First line of the OP?

Thine Wonk · 10-01-2013, 23:38

The new metal case Lumia phones look great too.

flagpole · 10-01-2013, 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

The new metal case Lumia phones look great too.

Fo shizzle http://www.phonesreview.co.uk/2013/0...-our-blessing/

swordman · 11-01-2013, 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by flagpole

You read the bit about sales being better than expected? First line of the OP?

I did indeed largely depends how bad they expected it to be though doesn't it?

I understand their accounts are not due until later in Jan and the figures announced by SE mean they will have underlying profitability as said not actual profit for the company. Given their recent woes it is indeed a spot of good news but still does not alter the fact that their eggs are in the WM basket and 4 million sales is not what would have been expected 2 years ago when they entered into this deal with MS.

It will be interesting to see what the sales break down to as in how many w8 and w7 phones this represents given the slash in prices that took place on the older handsets.

Still better than a poke in the eye I suppose.

clonmult · 11-01-2013, 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by flagpole

You read the bit about sales being better than expected? First line of the OP?

Compared to their previous sales, they're quite pathetic. Maybe they just set very low targets.

The N8 sold 4 million in its first quarter. These reported figures show its taken all of their Lumia range to better one of their previous models.

Its unfair to compare, but the iPhone 5 sold as many on its launch weekend as Nokia have sold Lumias in one quarter.

Big thing for me is that they sold half as many Symbian phones as they did WP devices - despite an almost complete lack of marketing.

WP has, without a doubt, so far been a complete disaster for Nokia.

finbaar · 11-01-2013, 12:51

Lets hope Nokia is turning the corner as it would be a shame for the only European smartphone manufacturer to die.

I was excited to try WP8 when it was launched and had hoped to get one as a second handset later this year. The 8X is a lovely bit of kit. But no, after trying it I won't be getting one. There are a few issues (slow transitions because of those flying window things - just open the bloody app and terrible notification handling are two) but the killer is the lack of Google sevices. No Google, no go for me.

sonicshadow · 11-01-2013, 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by clonmult

Compared to their previous sales, they're quite pathetic. Maybe they just set very low targets.

The N8 sold 4 million in its first quarter. These reported figures show its taken all of their Lumia range to better one of their previous models.

Its unfair to compare, but the iPhone 5 sold as many on its launch weekend as Nokia have sold Lumias in one quarter.

Big thing for me is that they sold half as many Symbian phones as they did WP devices - despite an almost complete lack of marketing.

WP has, without a doubt, so far been a complete disaster for Nokia.

The N8 had, at the time, the best camera ever on a phone, and I think that's the difference. It had something which set it aside from the competition, the current Lumias, with the possible exception of the 920, don't really do that.

flagpole · 11-01-2013, 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by clonmult

Compared to their previous sales, they're quite pathetic. Maybe they just set very low targets.

The N8 sold 4 million in its first quarter. These reported figures show its taken all of their Lumia range to better one of their previous models.

Its unfair to compare, but the iPhone 5 sold as many on its launch weekend as Nokia have sold Lumias in one quarter.

Big thing for me is that they sold half as many Symbian phones as they did WP devices - despite an almost complete lack of marketing.

WP has, without a doubt, so far been a complete disaster for Nokia.

i find it very odd when people post dubious thing with the confidence to use phrases like 'without doubt'

nokia was basically profitable in Q4 for the fist time in god knows how long.

i don't know how you can say WP has been a disaster. MS paid them a billion dollars which has enabled them to bring viable phones to market for the first time. what exactly would you have done? oh wise one.

and it's not what nokia expected it refers to when they say better than expected.

Pencil · 11-01-2013, 15:30

Nokia could have embraced Android AND Windows Phone, like Samsung and HTC have. They could have continued production of Symbian, as well as producing phones with the other two OS's.

Why just Windows Phone?

goldenface · 11-01-2013, 15:54

Good luck to Nokia, I hope they can recover. It's not good for anyone to have just two main phone sellers, choice is good.

flagpole · 11-01-2013, 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pencil

Nokia could have embraced Android AND Windows Phone, like Samsung and HTC have. They could have continued production of Symbian, as well as producing phones with the other two OS's.

Why just Windows Phone?

I believe it was part of the deal that saw Microsoft pay them the billion dollars. The CEO said the other day that he didn't rule out making android phones at some point. With symbian I think they just couldn't afford to keep developing it when they saw windows as more likely to me the competitive product.

MGS4SnakeRulez · 11-01-2013, 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by mogzyboy

The Lumia 920 is a great handset, and Windows Phone 8 is a refreshing OS, especially when the others (especially iOS) have looked the same for years. Must say that, as simple as it is to use, I'm really bored of iOS now.

I like the fact that WP8 is really bright and colourful.

Except they haven't, ICS looks completely different to GB and you can install other launchers and completely customise it's look with Android.

IvanIV · 11-01-2013, 16:18

Android does not mean an automatic success, nowadays it's Samsung that's doing very well, but even HTC is beginning to struggle.

As for Nokia, they are making profit now, so they must be doing something right. MS paid them to use WP, they would have no money to invest in a development of Android or Symbian. Maybe if they recover more.

clonmult · 11-01-2013, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by flagpole

i find it very odd when people post dubious thing with the confidence to use phrases like 'without doubt'

nokia was basically profitable in Q4 for the fist time in god knows how long.

i don't know how you can say WP has been a disaster. MS paid them a billion dollars which has enabled them to bring viable phones to market for the first time. what exactly would you have done? oh wise one.

and it's not what nokia expected it refers to when they say better than expected.

MS gave Nokia 1 billion, and finally parts of Nokia are starting to be profitable (yes, I know, slight gap between the two).

Nokia have sorted out their lower end range, and of the what 80+ million phones sold, 4.4 million were running WP. They sold rougly half as many Symbian devices despite an almost complete and utter lack of marketing on their behalf.

What percentage of their return to profitability is down to WP, and what percentage is down to the rest of their revamped product line?

What would I have done? Sacked most of the management team, who were repsonsible for the sad state of development at Nokia - they definitely had the development and design expertise, it was always held back by management allowing teams to compete against each other, and those with the greatest political clout tended to come through - not those with the best products.

They stupidly delayed the Maemo/MeeGo project by linking with Intel which put it into development hell, and it was the product that was most likely to bring them success.

As it stands they have absolutely no control over their destiny - if MS continue the way they're going, they will be basically using Nokia to promote the WP range while they design their own phones and then finally release them in an attempt to wrench control of the WP market.

wilt · 11-01-2013, 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by clonmult

MS gave Nokia 1 billion, and finally parts of Nokia are starting to be profitable (yes, I know, slight gap between the two).

Nokia have sorted out their lower end range, and of the what 80+ million phones sold, 4.4 million were running WP. They sold rougly half as many Symbian devices despite an almost complete and utter lack of marketing on their behalf.

What percentage of their return to profitability is down to WP, and what percentage is down to the rest of their revamped product line?

What would I have done? Sacked most of the management team, who were repsonsible for the sad state of development at Nokia - they definitely had the development and design expertise, it was always held back by management allowing teams to compete against each other, and those with the greatest political clout tended to come through - not those with the best products.

They stupidly delayed the Maemo/MeeGo project by linking with Intel which put it into development hell, and it was the product that was most likely to bring them success.

As it stands they have absolutely no control over their destiny - if MS continue the way they're going, they will be basically using Nokia to promote the WP range while they design their own phones and then finally release them in an attempt to wrench control of the WP market.

Why would Meego have brought them success? They would have the same ecosystem problems as WP (if not worse) with the added burden of full software development costs.

10-01-2013, 15:09	#1
flagpole Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,524	Nokia shares up 10% on better than expected Q4 results. (Reuters) - Finland's Nokia said its fourth-quarter results were better than expected and that the mobile phone business achieved underlying profitability, a rare spot of good news for the struggling handset maker. Quarterly net sales in devices and services was about 3.9 billion euros. It sold a total of 86.3 million devices. Smartphones accounted for 6.6 million units, of which 4.4 million were Windows-based Lumia handsets, the company said. Nokia shares surged 16 percent to 3.48 euros by 1315 GMT. ($1 = 0.7667 euros)

10-01-2013, 16:39	#2
JulesHolland Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 11	They've been on a downward spiral for a while now. It's all to do with the success of the Lumia range, namely the 900 and 920, specially the 920 on AT&T in the US. Both Nokia and Windows have worked really hard on getting that phone to a place where consumers wanted it to be. It's just as important for Windows as well because they need their mobile OS to catch up with Google's if they want to win the information battle.

10-01-2013, 16:48	#3
mogzyboy Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 4,554	The Lumia 920 is a great handset, and Windows Phone 8 is a refreshing OS, especially when the others (especially iOS) have looked the same for years. Must say that, as simple as it is to use, I'm really bored of iOS now. I like the fact that WP8 is really bright and colourful.

10-01-2013, 16:51	#4
sonicshadow Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,928	Bought my first Nokia in August, the 808 Pureview and my girlfriend got a lumia 800 through the year too. They're seems to be more people about with them now.

10-01-2013, 17:40	#5
flagpole Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,524	They've been doing very well recently. They signed a deal to flog the 920 through China Mobile, to their 700m subscribers. Unfortunately their office in India was raided by the tax authorities which hit them hard. But that they are profitable for the first time in yonks is big news.

10-01-2013, 21:36	#6
Step666 Forum Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,274	Quote: Originally Posted by flagpole Quarterly net sales in devices and services was about 3.9 billion euros. It sold a total of 86.3 million devices. Smartphones accounted for 6.6 million units, of which 4.4 million were Windows-based Lumia handsets, the company said. Are they worldwide sales?

10-01-2013, 22:04	#7
flagpole Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,524	I should say so.

10-01-2013, 22:26	#8
swordman Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 6,342	The problem is WM remains a disappointment and everything Nokia does means little unless it turns around or they jump ship which is unlikely. i think they have only just gone past synbian sales.

10-01-2013, 22:57	#9
flagpole Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,524	Quote: Originally Posted by swordman The problem is WM remains a disappointment and everything Nokia does means little unless it turns around or they jump ship which is unlikely. i think they have only just gone past synbian sales. In what sense does 'WM remain a disappointment'?

10-01-2013, 23:24	#10
swordman Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 6,342	Quote: Originally Posted by flagpole In what sense does 'WM remain a disappointment'? In the sense it is not selling as hoped

10-01-2013, 23:37	#11
flagpole Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,524	Quote: Originally Posted by swordman In the sense it is not selling as hoped You read the bit about sales being better than expected? First line of the OP?

10-01-2013, 23:38	#12
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	The new metal case Lumia phones look great too.

10-01-2013, 23:52	#13
flagpole Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,524	Quote: Originally Posted by Thine Wonk The new metal case Lumia phones look great too. Fo shizzle http://www.phonesreview.co.uk/2013/0...-our-blessing/

11-01-2013, 00:08	#14
swordman Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 6,342	Quote: Originally Posted by flagpole You read the bit about sales being better than expected? First line of the OP? I did indeed largely depends how bad they expected it to be though doesn't it? I understand their accounts are not due until later in Jan and the figures announced by SE mean they will have underlying profitability as said not actual profit for the company. Given their recent woes it is indeed a spot of good news but still does not alter the fact that their eggs are in the WM basket and 4 million sales is not what would have been expected 2 years ago when they entered into this deal with MS. It will be interesting to see what the sales break down to as in how many w8 and w7 phones this represents given the slash in prices that took place on the older handsets. Still better than a poke in the eye I suppose.

11-01-2013, 10:10	#15
clonmult Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,291	Quote: Originally Posted by flagpole You read the bit about sales being better than expected? First line of the OP? Compared to their previous sales, they're quite pathetic. Maybe they just set very low targets. The N8 sold 4 million in its first quarter. These reported figures show its taken all of their Lumia range to better one of their previous models. Its unfair to compare, but the iPhone 5 sold as many on its launch weekend as Nokia have sold Lumias in one quarter. Big thing for me is that they sold half as many Symbian phones as they did WP devices - despite an almost complete lack of marketing. WP has, without a doubt, so far been a complete disaster for Nokia.

11-01-2013, 12:51	#16
finbaar Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 3,921	Lets hope Nokia is turning the corner as it would be a shame for the only European smartphone manufacturer to die. I was excited to try WP8 when it was launched and had hoped to get one as a second handset later this year. The 8X is a lovely bit of kit. But no, after trying it I won't be getting one. There are a few issues (slow transitions because of those flying window things - just open the bloody app and terrible notification handling are two) but the killer is the lack of Google sevices. No Google, no go for me.

11-01-2013, 14:38	#17
sonicshadow Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,928	Quote: Originally Posted by clonmult Compared to their previous sales, they're quite pathetic. Maybe they just set very low targets. The N8 sold 4 million in its first quarter. These reported figures show its taken all of their Lumia range to better one of their previous models. Its unfair to compare, but the iPhone 5 sold as many on its launch weekend as Nokia have sold Lumias in one quarter. Big thing for me is that they sold half as many Symbian phones as they did WP devices - despite an almost complete lack of marketing. WP has, without a doubt, so far been a complete disaster for Nokia. The N8 had, at the time, the best camera ever on a phone, and I think that's the difference. It had something which set it aside from the competition, the current Lumias, with the possible exception of the 920, don't really do that.

11-01-2013, 15:06	#18
flagpole Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,524	Quote: Originally Posted by clonmult Compared to their previous sales, they're quite pathetic. Maybe they just set very low targets. The N8 sold 4 million in its first quarter. These reported figures show its taken all of their Lumia range to better one of their previous models. Its unfair to compare, but the iPhone 5 sold as many on its launch weekend as Nokia have sold Lumias in one quarter. Big thing for me is that they sold half as many Symbian phones as they did WP devices - despite an almost complete lack of marketing. WP has, without a doubt, so far been a complete disaster for Nokia. i find it very odd when people post dubious thing with the confidence to use phrases like 'without doubt' nokia was basically profitable in Q4 for the fist time in god knows how long. i don't know how you can say WP has been a disaster. MS paid them a billion dollars which has enabled them to bring viable phones to market for the first time. what exactly would you have done? oh wise one. and it's not what nokia expected it refers to when they say better than expected.

11-01-2013, 15:30	#19
Pencil Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,252	Nokia could have embraced Android AND Windows Phone, like Samsung and HTC have. They could have continued production of Symbian, as well as producing phones with the other two OS's. Why just Windows Phone?

11-01-2013, 15:54	#20
goldenface Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,044	Good luck to Nokia, I hope they can recover. It's not good for anyone to have just two main phone sellers, choice is good.

11-01-2013, 16:00	#21
flagpole Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,524	Quote: Originally Posted by Pencil Nokia could have embraced Android AND Windows Phone, like Samsung and HTC have. They could have continued production of Symbian, as well as producing phones with the other two OS's. Why just Windows Phone? I believe it was part of the deal that saw Microsoft pay them the billion dollars. The CEO said the other day that he didn't rule out making android phones at some point. With symbian I think they just couldn't afford to keep developing it when they saw windows as more likely to me the competitive product.

DS Forums

Nokia shares up 10% on better than expected Q4 results.

11-01-2013, 16:13	#22
MGS4SnakeRulez Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 16,705	Quote: Originally Posted by mogzyboy The Lumia 920 is a great handset, and Windows Phone 8 is a refreshing OS, especially when the others (especially iOS) have looked the same for years. Must say that, as simple as it is to use, I'm really bored of iOS now. I like the fact that WP8 is really bright and colourful. Except they haven't, ICS looks completely different to GB and you can install other launchers and completely customise it's look with Android.

11-01-2013, 16:18	#23
IvanIV Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 25,199	Android does not mean an automatic success, nowadays it's Samsung that's doing very well, but even HTC is beginning to struggle. As for Nokia, they are making profit now, so they must be doing something right. MS paid them to use WP, they would have no money to invest in a development of Android or Symbian. Maybe if they recover more.

11-01-2013, 16:38	#24
clonmult Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,291	Quote: Originally Posted by flagpole i find it very odd when people post dubious thing with the confidence to use phrases like 'without doubt' nokia was basically profitable in Q4 for the fist time in god knows how long. i don't know how you can say WP has been a disaster. MS paid them a billion dollars which has enabled them to bring viable phones to market for the first time. what exactly would you have done? oh wise one. and it's not what nokia expected it refers to when they say better than expected. MS gave Nokia 1 billion, and finally parts of Nokia are starting to be profitable (yes, I know, slight gap between the two). Nokia have sorted out their lower end range, and of the what 80+ million phones sold, 4.4 million were running WP. They sold rougly half as many Symbian devices despite an almost complete and utter lack of marketing on their behalf. What percentage of their return to profitability is down to WP, and what percentage is down to the rest of their revamped product line? What would I have done? Sacked most of the management team, who were repsonsible for the sad state of development at Nokia - they definitely had the development and design expertise, it was always held back by management allowing teams to compete against each other, and those with the greatest political clout tended to come through - not those with the best products. They stupidly delayed the Maemo/MeeGo project by linking with Intel which put it into development hell, and it was the product that was most likely to bring them success. As it stands they have absolutely no control over their destiny - if MS continue the way they're going, they will be basically using Nokia to promote the WP range while they design their own phones and then finally release them in an attempt to wrench control of the WP market.

11-01-2013, 16:50	#25
wilt Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Potterspury Posts: 930	Quote: Originally Posted by clonmult MS gave Nokia 1 billion, and finally parts of Nokia are starting to be profitable (yes, I know, slight gap between the two). Nokia have sorted out their lower end range, and of the what 80+ million phones sold, 4.4 million were running WP. They sold rougly half as many Symbian devices despite an almost complete and utter lack of marketing on their behalf. What percentage of their return to profitability is down to WP, and what percentage is down to the rest of their revamped product line? What would I have done? Sacked most of the management team, who were repsonsible for the sad state of development at Nokia - they definitely had the development and design expertise, it was always held back by management allowing teams to compete against each other, and those with the greatest political clout tended to come through - not those with the best products. They stupidly delayed the Maemo/MeeGo project by linking with Intel which put it into development hell, and it was the product that was most likely to bring them success. As it stands they have absolutely no control over their destiny - if MS continue the way they're going, they will be basically using Nokia to promote the WP range while they design their own phones and then finally release them in an attempt to wrench control of the WP market. Why would Meego have brought them success? They would have the same ecosystem problems as WP (if not worse) with the added burden of full software development costs.