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Kovarian and silence to return with a bang ? (spec)


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Old 12-01-2013, 17:22
Sara_Peplow
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Maybe not in the S7 finale or 50th but soon.
Would like to see another confrontation with them in the build up to trenzalore. Imagine Kovarians face when she realises he is still alive. Reason she didn't really "die" in TWORS. Amy was too nice to turn into a killer. She even told 11 they had to be better then their enemies in TCM. She learnt the hard way. That's why River told her what really happened to comfort her. Plus Kovarian was too good a villain to waste. Keep her in the shadows untill the time is right to come back. Hopefully she will get what she deserves when that happens.
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Old 12-01-2013, 21:34
sohoguy
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The Silence wiping people's memory all seems to be thematically similar to the idea of people forgetting who the Doctor is.

Maybe!
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Old 12-01-2013, 21:50
MinkytheDog
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I'm all for the Silence (the group and the creatures) returning but I'd prefer it to be without Madam K - purely because a major threat to the Doctor needs to be bigger than one mad bint and having her back would risk making the whole thing seem like some small-time operation that can't exist without her. I'd prefer to get a sense of something of a much larger scale that is barely dented by losing her.

The Pandorica Alliance and the the Silence (the group, not the creatures) both hinted at the possibility of a pan-species, pan-galaxy threat based on an almost religious hatred of the Doctor - something missing from DW and potentially bigger than the Daleks as a classic villain. From their perspective, they are justified and the Doctor is "satan" - there's no "evil" in what they do - just the opposite.
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Old 12-01-2013, 22:00
Abomination
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I don't feel like Kovarian was given the exit she deserved, not that she truly deserved one - she had what it took to be a recurring villain, and I'd love to find out more about her. The show rarely has female villains, so it was a refreshing chance.

Echoing the post above me, I don't feel she was the one turning all the cogs though. If she was to return, it'd likely have to be part of a bigger picture, with her failure to kill the Doctor revealing a greater menace at hand... maybe The Great Intelligence?
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Old 12-01-2013, 22:10
saladfingers81
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I don't want to see Kovarian back for the same reasons as Minky. She was good but like nearly every brilliant idea in S6 the promise was not fulfilled. In fact I watched 'A Good man...' the other night again and it still stuns me how many amazing ideas were floating around S6 that were wasted. The best/worst season arc of television ever.
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Old 13-01-2013, 21:38
rwebster
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I don't want to see Kovarian back for the same reasons as Minky. She was good but like nearly every brilliant idea in S6 the promise was not fulfilled. In fact I watched 'A Good man...' the other night again and it still stuns me how many amazing ideas were floating around S6 that were wasted. The best/worst season arc of television ever.
I don't know if I'd call it the best/worst, but I'd certainly say series six was a series of amazing questions and unexciting answers. The person who killed the Doctor turned out, in episode 13... to be exactly the same person they'd implied it would be for the last two series. Why aren't we allowed to see her in ep 1, then? Good question, slightly banal answer.

The opening two-parter was so, so good. Successive arc-episodes moved at breakneck speed - too fast to be creepy, or emotive, just cramming it all in. River Song's stint as a psychopath lasted all of thirty minutes. And the episodes between didn't further the plot at all. Miles upon miles away from the steady build of series five.

It's a fun series, and there's a lot of good stuff going on, but I feel like it promised a more interesting story than it delivered. It was a brilliant thirteen episode story, told in five. For all the stuff about the "ghost train," Steven Moffat's episodes didn't hold still long enough to be unsettling, once the opener had been and gone. It was all whizz, bang, rollicking along. The silence didn't even get to fiddle with people's memories in the finale, everyone wore eyepatches, which neutered them a bit. Creepy faces, creepy voice, but they weren't much more than window dressing.

Still good, though! Lots of wonderful episodes, lots of wonderful ideas, and the show had never looked more beautiful. Series six was a lovely thing, the people involved have a lot to be proud of, and I'd much rather the show be over-ambitious than not ambitious enough. Didn't quite hit the sweet spot like the three series before it, though.
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Old 13-01-2013, 22:52
saladfingers81
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You said pretty much all I think about it. I just find it frustrating as it has so many good ideas and is so close to greatness but...there is almost too much. The whole concept of The Silence and the Headless Monks and the Soldiers was so brilliant it could have been not only series defining but era defining. They could have explored it so much more hut instead it was dashed off and felt half baked. Which was for me the problem with S6 as a whole. It was fizzing with ideas but sometimes less is more and it needed editing. Even now when I rewatch it I want to know more about all of it. Seems rushed off. A desperately missed opportunity for me. I am reluctant to ever criticise a writer for having too many ideas...god knows plenty don't have enough...but I genuinely think Moffat threw too much at S6 so in the end it was all too busy and none of it was as satisfying as it should have been. That's what I mean. In all the mess of that season is the potential for the greatest stories the show has ever told. And for me it squandered that promise.
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Old 13-01-2013, 22:54
saladfingers81
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Just to add to that...i have read criticism that S6 was too arc heavy. I disagree. If anything it would have worked better if they had dared to make it almost one long story and had faith in it and the viewer to follow it all through.
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Old 13-01-2013, 23:02
saladfingers81
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And also as I have said before. You could take out the entire death of the doctor storyline and make it all about Melody/River and it would have worked so much better. Yes, set up River as a deadly assassin but make that the conclusion leading into a massive set up for the fall of Eleven. It would have been more than enough.
Imagine if we had been able to follow the pregnancy of Amy in a more organic and linear sense. She falls pregnant. And because her baby is valuable the doctor has no choice but to continue travelling with her because his enemies are after the child. So they run. And keep running. Until an army raised to steal the child and after a good fight in the finale they still lose. The doctor really does fall further than ever before. And S6 closes with the River revelation and the realisation that she is a a weapon being primed to execute the doctor. He really does lose. The wrench of it would have been so much more powerful. And then River lies dormant. For me that is the story that should have been told. And among that we could have had far more detailed exploration of the soldiers and the headless monks and the order of the Silence.
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Old 13-01-2013, 23:02
Josh Pinder
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I don't know if I'd call it the best/worst, but I'd certainly say series six was a series of amazing questions and unexciting answers. The person who killed the Doctor turned out, in episode 13... to be exactly the same person they'd implied it would be for the last two series. Why aren't we allowed to see her in ep 1, then? Good question, slightly banal answer.

The opening two-parter was so, so good. Successive arc-episodes moved at breakneck speed - too fast to be creepy, or emotive, just cramming it all in. River Song's stint as a psychopath lasted all of thirty minutes. And the episodes between didn't further the plot at all. Miles upon miles away from the steady build of series five.

It's a fun series, and there's a lot of good stuff going on, but I feel like it promised a more interesting story than it delivered. It was a brilliant thirteen episode story, told in five. For all the stuff about the "ghost train," Steven Moffat's episodes didn't hold still long enough to be unsettling, once the opener had been and gone. It was all whizz, bang, rollicking along. The silence didn't even get to fiddle with people's memories in the finale, everyone wore eyepatches, which neutered them a bit. Creepy faces, creepy voice, but they weren't much more than window dressing.

Still good, though! Lots of wonderful episodes, lots of wonderful ideas, and the show had never looked more beautiful. Series six was a lovely thing, the people involved have a lot to be proud of, and I'd much rather the show be over-ambitious than not ambitious enough. Didn't quite hit the sweet spot like the three series before it, though.
Very much agree....although series 6 is definitely my favourite....mainly due to these concepts, the directions....amazing and the finale for being a single parter did so much in a short space of time, it was insane....the most experimental series the show has ever done and it worked very well...despite the criticism

Series 7 does look set to perhaps take over however....but dang the standard was set so high with series 5 an then 6 its brilliant its being consistent.

And YES i very much would love Madame K to make a shock return perhaps for series 8 Post-50th with the entire Silence Brigade/community across series 8 for 11 and Clara to face and bring down...we will see where it all heads...but Madame K has all the makings of being an iconic Doctor WHo villain up there with The Master and Davros definitely....i just want her to be brought back in an exceptionally chilling way I feel and twist everything around
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Old 14-01-2013, 09:51
johnnysaucepn
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Imagine if we had been able to follow the pregnancy of Amy in a more organic and linear sense. She falls pregnant. And because her baby is valuable the doctor has no choice but to continue travelling with her because his enemies are after the child. So they run. And keep running. Until an army raised to steal the child and after a good fight in the finale they still lose. The doctor really does fall further than ever before. And S6 closes with the River revelation and the realisation that she is a a weapon being primed to execute the doctor. He really does lose. The wrench of it would have been so much more powerful. And then River lies dormant. For me that is the story that should have been told. And among that we could have had far more detailed exploration of the soldiers and the headless monks and the order of the Silence.
That would have been great, assuming it's possible to sustain such a dark through-plot across all the episodes. I think the biggest problem with that would be the production model that Who uses - with each story written and produced by someone else, it would be exceptionally hard to co-ordinate them all. And would there be enough time left for each story individually?
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Old 14-01-2013, 12:37
sandydune
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Keep her in the shadows untill the time is right to come back.
Madame Kovarian- Hello Doctor, have you met my husband?
(gestures towards the man whose back is turned)
Mr Kovarian- Doctor, we meet again (the man turns round to face The Doctor)
The Doctor- Clara, someone you should really meet, this is....
Clara- Hello Uncle
The Doctor- Uncle? (The Doctor looks at Clara)
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Old 14-01-2013, 12:59
johnnysaucepn
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Kovarian is in the position that they have the option to bring her back or not. If Frances Barber wants to do it, that would be great. If she doesn't, or they can't get her for filming, I can imagine the Silents just moving on to the next hopeful with a big idea for taking care of the Doctor. Ever since we realised that Kovarian wasn't the one pulling the strings, that she was being controlled by the shadowy aliens, she's felt to me like Number Two from The Prisoner - just the latest in a series of disposable figureheads.
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Old 14-01-2013, 13:39
saladfingers81
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That would have been great, assuming it's possible to sustain such a dark through-plot across all the episodes. I think the biggest problem with that would be the production model that Who uses - with each story written and produced by someone else, it would be exceptionally hard to co-ordinate them all. And would there be enough time left for each story individually?
That is the obvious problem- in my head I have sort of worked out a possible way it could have been done with a change in running order and dropping a couple of episodes but like you say it would have been a challenge, They couldve pulled it off though no doubt!
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Old 14-01-2013, 13:39
rwebster
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Kovarian is in the position that they have the option to bring her back or not. If Frances Barber wants to do it, that would be great.
I'd be amazed if she didn't. Have you heard the commentary for The Wedding of River Song? She spends a full half of it cooing about how brilliant the revived show is. Nothing but praise, keeps drifting to episodes she had nothing to do with. She loves it!
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Old 14-01-2013, 14:42
Corwin
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Still think we might get a reveal that Kovarian is The Rani.
[LIST][*]She knows an awful lot about Time Lord biology (enough to create a Time Lord (more or less) from scratch) for a non Gallifreyian Scientist[*]The Silence somehow got access to Timeships that look very TARDIS like[*]She seems to have a history with the Doctor that has not really been explained[*]The last 4 letters of her name spell Rani[/LIST]Could SM have gained inspiration from The War Games which also featured a renegade Time Lord giving simpler versions of TARDIS' to an alien race?

Yes the Doctor should recognise her as a Timelord but we've already seen a couple of ways that the Master was able to conceal this from the Doctor. No reason the Rani could not have used one of these or found another.
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